Pakistan has right to retaliate Nato strikes, says Musharraf

[cactuslily58]

This Indian involvement is all along, why in the hell has this issue not been raised. What the hell are we waiting for? We need to give indians a taste of their own medicine, should give ISI a free hand and lets see how far can Indians really go with this. As far as that bastard is concerned in afghanistan, we need to put it straight to the US, you better stop him or we will.

Brave words indeed !

Does the ISI already not have a free hand ? In fact let me put it this way, can anyone deny the ISI a free hand ?

As regards the ' bastard' in Afghanistan, if Pak could have "stopped" him, he surely would have been stopped by now. Anyone can pull a trigger, can the hand that pulls it face the consequences of pulling it ? More so , since money has been paid for the services provided / sought why crib ? Weren't the consequences known when the cash was gratefully accepted ?

 

[IceCold]

Brave words indeed !

Does the ISI already not have a free hand ? In fact let me put it this way, can anyone deny the ISI a free hand ?

As regards the ' bastard' in Afghanistan, if Pak could have "stopped" him, he surely would have been stopped by now. Anyone can pull a trigger, can the hand that pulls it face the consequences of pulling it ? More so , since money has been paid for the services provided / sought why crib ? Weren't the consequences known when the cash was gratefully accepted ?

Get to the point shall we! ISI does not have a free hand, the power struggle that is currently going on, is effecting many things.
As for the bastard, its not about if we could or could not, certainly we can take him out, and that too without much of hassle but why to get our hands dirty, he'll probably be taken out in any case by someone else. I said to raise this issue with the US and put it straight in the face either you put a stop on him or we will. By the way what impression are you having of him, a person who couldn't extend his government beyond Kabul after all these years and the frustration clearly speaks. Pathetic

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

This Indian involvement is all along, why in the hell has this issue not been raised. What the hell are we waiting for? We need to give indians a taste of their own medicine, should give ISI a free hand and lets see how far can Indians really go with this. As far as that bastard is concerned in afghanistan, we need to put it straight to the US, you better stop him or we will.

An interesting thought.

As far as attacking NATO forces is concerned, Asim is right - all empty thunder.

If Pakistan attacks the US and NATO in Afghanistan, it would mean that the Western countries will stop giving financial aid, weapons, and most importantly, stop all trade.
If trade with the West is stopped, the economy will collapse! China will not be able to salvage, though Saudis could bankroll to some extent, but they are pawns of the West.

And if the NATO and the US retaliates militarily, it will be a huge problem for Pakistan. And it must be remembered that the US has huge finances and if they buy up the dissatisfied in Balochistan, Northern Areas and even NWFP and FATA and supply them arms, then it will be a repeat of the effect of what they did in Afghanistan against the Soviets!

Patriotism and even jingoism is something good. However, losing sight of the reality can be dangerous.

As far as India is concerned, it will stand by and only laugh up their sleeves. Why should they get their hands dirty when others are doing what you presume that India will do!!

I said to raise this issue with the US and put it straight in the face either you put a stop on him or we will.

Please stop him instead of only leaving it as brave empty words!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I believe NATO is irrelevant in the present scenario. IT neither has the resources not the manpower to enter the tribal areas. Its the US we should be looking at. We like all other countries should retaliate whenever US violates our border. A firm policy should be formed and implemented. I know we have a policy regarding violations but don't use it against US. Once US knows it will face military response then perhaps it will concentrate on Aghanistan and try to address its own failures. Presently they have a scapegoat and blame every thing on Pakistan.

Our PM is in US, wait and see what he says. Frankly I have started having doubts about his abilities however these are early days.

The US strategy must be understood.

They have no interest in leaving either Iraq or Afghanistan. Both are required as advanced posts in the Middle East and CAR as also looking into China.

They have adequate troops to do selective hot pursuit and damage as much as they want. Their drones are doing adequate damage as it is and violating Pakistan territory and making a mockery of the Pakistani sovereignty. Their actions, as it is, has ensured that Pakistan's writ does not run in the badlands of Pakistan! That itself should indicate the power of US actions without even attacking Pakistan!

As I had mentioned in my post to Icecold, Pakistan cannot do without the West to sustain itself! Therefore, don't blame Musharraf or Gilani for being merely helpless spectators and hand maidens.

 

[opinion786]

As I had mentioned in my post to Icecold, Pakistan cannot do without the West to sustain itself! Therefore, don't blame Musharraf or Gilani for being merely helpless spectators and hand maidens.

If you mean aid & assistence to sustain itself - than that is not the case.

Pakistan's economy boomed by $85 billion in the last 8 years, from $75 billion to $160 billion and now touching $170 billion.

The so-called aid & assistence has been around $10 billion, out of which 60% has gone toward “Coalition Support Funds,” intended to reimburse the Pakistani military for their assistance in combating terrorism. The U.S. government considers it repayment rather than aid.

Overview of US Aid to Pakistan

and

Flynt Leverett in AP Pakistan | 'Policy Experts Say Pakistan Is Vital' | The New America Foundation

Therefore, the actual aid & assistence amounts to only $4 billion in the last 8 years. While our economy grew by $85 billion. This $4 billion holds no value amidst the $160 billion economy.

Common sense dictates, that we cannot fight or survive a head-strong fight with the USA & NATO forces combined. We are not a super-power. That is the only reason for Musharraf's and PM Gilani's common-sense.

Do you think that India can fight & win a war with USA? Its better that we keep a low profile.

Regards

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Opinion,

Paksitani economy boomed.

Check your trading partners and see how much of it depended on the West.

Check the assistance given by the WB and IMF.

This is what made the economy boom!

And you are right that common sense dictates that Pakistan cannot fight the USA and that is what I was trying to say too!

 

[IceCold]

An interesting thought.

As far as attacking NATO forces is concerned, Asim is right - all empty thunder.

If Pakistan attacks the US and NATO in Afghanistan, it would mean that the Western countries will stop giving financial aid, weapons, and most importantly, stop all trade.
If trade with the West is stopped, the economy will collapse! China will not be able to salvage, though Saudis could bankroll to some extent, but they are pawns of the West.

And if the NATO and the US retaliates militarily, it will be a huge problem for Pakistan. And it must be remembered that the US has huge finances and if they buy up the dissatisfied in Balochistan, Northern Areas and even NWFP and FATA and supply them arms, then it will be a repeat of the effect of what they did in Afghanistan against the Soviets!

Patriotism and even jingoism is something good. However, losing sight of the reality can be dangerous.

As far as India is concerned, it will stand by and only laugh up their sleeves. Why should they get their hands dirty when others are doing what you presume that India will do!!



Please stop him instead of only leaving it as brave empty words!

No one doesn't need to attack the US and NATO forces to prove a point. Putting directly to the face of the US as i also mentioned in one of my previous post was that either US takes a hold of him or we will have to reconsider our commitment on the wot. As for the economy it didn't collapse during the 90's when we were under sanctions and did not collapse when we nuclear tests were carried out and i am sure it wont now either.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

No one doesn't need to attack the US and NATO forces to prove a point. Putting directly to the face of the US as i also mentioned in one of my previous post was that either US takes a hold of him or we will have to reconsider our commitment on the wot. As for the economy it didn't collapse during the 90's when we were under sanctions and did not collapse when we nuclear tests were carried out and i am sure it wont now either.

Get real.

You will get hold of no one because you can't.

You can't even think of your commitment since you are beholden and dependant as I have said in earlier post.

Sanctions were not for ages. Saudis helped. And the economy and the world recession was not there!

Live in the times and not in dreams and jingosim!

If it were true as to what you say, do you think Musharraf and Gilani are any less in intellect than you?

Do correct me, did you not say that you should retaliate against the US militarily?

 

[Energon]

I really love how these threads turn into a topic of the "Indo-Israeli evil nexus."

Pakistan can't do anything as far as the US and NATO are concerned for a multitude of reasons. And no, the GoP has nothing to do with it. Regardless of who's running the country, Pakistan will remain subjugated to the west. Any attempts to "retaliate" conventionally will only result in harsher punitive actions.

The best option right now is to do everything to curb the problems within Pakistan as a prophylactic measure and avoid intervention from NATO/US.

 

[Xeric]

Brave words indeed !

Does the ISI already not have a free hand ? In fact let me put it this way, can anyone deny the ISI a free hand ?

As regards the ' bastard' in Afghanistan, if Pak could have "stopped" him, he surely would have been stopped by now. Anyone can pull a trigger, can the hand that pulls it face the consequences of pulling it ? More so , since money has been paid for the services provided / sought why crib ? Weren't the consequences known when the cash was gratefully accepted ?

Free hand....I think you have forgotten what has been happening with the indian army in Kashmir. That is what we call a free hand.

And BTW thanks for your "help" that 'bastard' is sitting in afghanistan.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

That is where you are mistaken that the IA has a free hand in Kashmir.

 

[BATMAN]

An interesting thought.
As far as attacking NATO forces is concerned, Asim is right - all empty thunder.

It is your personal out of context thunder. No one talked about attacking NATO but yes all humans have the right of self defence, no body should wait for statements or teachings on this natural human behavior.
Need for hints on self defence right is required to make sure that their are no confusions on the other side.

If Pakistan attacks the US and NATO in Afghanistan, it would mean that the Western countries will stop giving financial aid, weapons, and most importantly, stop all trade.
If trade with the West is stopped, the economy will collapse! China will not be able to salvage, though Saudis could bankroll to some extent, but they are pawns of the West.
And if the NATO and the US retaliates militarily, it will be a huge problem for Pakistan. And it must be remembered that the US has huge finances and if they buy up the dissatisfied in Balochistan, Northern Areas and even NWFP and FATA and supply them arms, then it will be a repeat of the effect of what they did in Afghanistan against the Soviets!

What trade are you talking, for example? specially when we are talking about world war? BTW, we have more imports from Europe than exports.
Do you know why US came down to table with Iran? Pakistan also enjoy the same geographic advantage as Iran, so we can also shake world economy if our ecnomic interests are at stake.
Any way this could be the last resort. NATO and 5000 strong indian army in Afghanistan will be mere sitting ducks, in a land locked hostile country.
It should be clear by now that some countries does not go to war for only hostility of adversarary, threat of US cum indian attack has to be gauged by their past record and our analysis.
As you say US may be buying or smuggling insurgents in Balauchistan but again this is a war of civilizations which means the war of our beliefs.
Don't think that indians, Americans or Euoropeans cannot be bought, but no one wishes it. Based on your beliefs, you can consider it advantage that your adversarary does not believe in evil and only retalite to open hostilities against women and children.

Patriotism and even jingoism is something good. However, losing sight of the reality can be dangerous.
As far as India is concerned, it will stand by and only laugh up their sleeves. Why should they get their hands dirty when others are doing what you presume that India will do!!
Please stop him instead of only leaving it as brave empty words

Every day indians shoot at Pakistani villigers and send infiltrators across line of control and now would you say it is US in disguise of indians?
pakistan and india are constantly at war at various fronts and Afghanistan is may be a new front but enemy is still same india.

 

[Xeric]

That is where you are mistaken that the IA has a free hand in Kashmir.

i was not taliking about the IA, I was refering to the Mujahidins activities, sir.

 

[IceCold]

Get real.

You will get hold of no one because you can't.

You can't even think of your commitment since you are beholden and dependant as I have said in earlier post.

Sanctions were not for ages. Saudis helped. And the economy and the world recession was not there!

Live in the times and not in dreams and jingosim!

If it were true as to what you say, do you think Musharraf and Gilani are any less in intellect than you?

Do correct me, did you not say that you should retaliate against the US militarily?

Ohh please! i' m sick of your crap posts. You have nothing else to say related to this thread other then what you have written above and that too repeating over and over again kinds of show what state of mind are you in. As for Musharraf, he is an intellect guy, but not Gilani, Gilani is just a mere tool of Mr. 10% and i for one have no hope in him. Hes just one of those guys who say yes sir.

 

[IceCold]

I really love how these threads turn into a topic of the "Indo-Israeli evil nexus."

Pakistan can't do anything as far as the US and NATO are concerned for a multitude of reasons. And no, the GoP has nothing to do with it. Regardless of who's running the country, Pakistan will remain subjugated to the west. Any attempts to "retaliate" conventionally will only result in harsher punitive actions.

The best option right now is to do everything to curb the problems within Pakistan as a prophylactic measure and avoid intervention from NATO/US.

Why are you of this low opinion anyways that we are unable to do anything? I may agree that we wont for now, but don't you think you are going too far fetched over this. let me tell you something, you could not stop us for developing nuclear weapons, although according to your theory you should have had as Pakistan is and always have subjugated to the west. Then again you could not stop us in 1998 when we tested it. We wouldn't be making peace deals with the Taliban in the tribal areas if we were so subjugated. What makes you sure that if Pakistan decides to step back, you could do anything more then mere empty thunders of intervening. Because the fact is that you can't, because the result of that in so many areas will be so devastating that even the US could not live with the aftermath(US casualties, World economy etc). So before you come out with these derogatory statements of yours, have a reality check, Pakistan isn't the same as it use to be.