Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Windjammer]

 

[Windjammer]

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[denel]

Please remember that PAF is already flying scrap in the form of Mirage an F-7p and soon F-7PG. Any F-16s, even if older but with some reasonable life on them, will benefit exponentially over these three in terms of capabilities and saving pilot lives. These are stop gaps until a more modern fighter (be it block 3 or AZM or something else) is acquired. You have 160 legacy Mirage/F-7 to replace by 2025 and this will take a bite out of them until project Azm and late block JF-17s are ready to start replacing F-16. If u can get them and for cheap put them into service i say do it.

Agreed; there are plenty of old f-16s out there and still offer a lot of performance overall compared to Mirages.

 

[ziaulislam]

Agreed; there are plenty of old f-16s out there and still offer a lot of performance overall compared to Mirages.

Not available as USA Will not allow it

 

[ziaulislam]

The time was pre 2011 which was screwed up by PPPP

 

[denel]

Not available as USA Will not allow it

Yes for now... time is always a great ally

 

[ziaulislam]

Yes for now... time is always a great ally

what will USA gain from allowing it....

in the past military had strong strength inside establishment, that has now dissipated, so even if relation thaw, it would be more economical aid and bribes rather than military equipment...

so even if it happens, it will be new f-16s from mix of pakistani and foreign aid(indirect)..but used..not going to happenn..especially not till single engine vendor project of IAF goes

 

[denel]

what will USA gain from allowing it....

in the past military had strong strength inside establishment, that has now dissipated, so even if relation thaw, it would be more economical aid and bribes rather than military equipment...

so even if it happens, it will be new f-16s from mix of pakistani and foreign aid(indirect)..but used..not going to happenn..especially not till single engine vendor project of IAF goes

No.... old ones have no benefit in terms of leverage; thousands are available.

I am saying time is your ally because newer blk Jf-17 will be in place in next 2 years; once it is shown that f-16s present no leverage, they will let it flow; it is just a matter of time. No need to get newer f-16s as they have too many strings and checks/balances. Older f-16s can be mlu'ed via TAI and you have control on their capabilities.

I dont think IAF will go with f-16s; it has reached end of life in terms of upgrades. They may land up with Gripen.

 

[ziaulislam]

No.... old ones have no benefit in terms of leverage; thousands are available.

I am saying time is your ally because newer blk Jf-17 will be in place in next 2 years; once it is shown that f-16s present no leverage, they will let it flow; it is just a matter of time. No need to get newer f-16s as they have too many strings and checks/balances. Older f-16s can be mlu'ed via TAI and you have control on their capabilities.

I dont think IAF will go with f-16s; it has reached end of life in terms of upgrades. They may land up with Gripen.

USA will not release old planes as it will not give nay jobs to LM..you missed the point, that is the no. 1 reasom, it will only allow it for an ally that is desparate and has no money, so likley old f-16s will go to eastern european countries, it will not even allow f-16s from third countries to go to pakistan..it wants to pressurize pakistan to buy new ones

f-16 has much larger life span and upgrades than gripen, its going to be in service in USA till 2050, gripen NG has just one customer!...

new f-16s are even sold today

 

[denel]

USA will not release old planes as it will not give nay jobs to LM..you missed the point, that is the no. 1 reasom, it will only allow it for an ally that is desparate and has no money, so likley old f-16s will go to eastern european countries, it will not even allow f-16s from third countries to go to pakistan..it wants to pressurize pakistan to buy new ones

f-16 has much larger life span and upgrades than gripen, its going to be in service in USA till 2050, gripen NG has just one customer!...

new f-16s are even sold today

Well Pak has no money either. Just a matter of understanding. IAF does not want a product with strings attached. Gripen is in my opinion a better aircraft.

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

Well Pak has no money either. Just a matter of understanding. IAF does not want a product with strings attached. Gripen is in my opinion a better aircraft.

I thought the Indians have cancelled the single engine jet bid and are back to double engine bid again.

 

[Raider 21]

I thought the Indians have cancelled the single engine jet bid and are back to double engine bid again.

With the Indian government who knows what happens, they don't exactly have the best procurement people (a BAE Systems employee told me that from his time on Jaguars and Hawks with the IAF)......for example they finalised a deal for the Hawk 100s that were delivered in 2006 even though the initial deal started in 1992....

 

[denel]

I thought the Indians have cancelled the single engine jet bid and are back to double engine bid again.

Yes they cancelled it; looks like Mig-35/Fa-18

 

[ziaulislam]

Well Pak has no money either. Just a matter of understanding. IAF does not want a product with strings attached. Gripen is in my opinion a better aircraft.

but is not an alley outside WOT, india is the ally...imagine the out-roar if USA arms an arch enemy of a strategic ally(which is india)

 

[denel]

but is not an alley outside WOT, india is the ally...imagine the out-roar if USA arms an arch enemy of a strategic ally(which is india)

It is up to your lobbyists and foreign affairs to ensure relations were good. Indians are masters of lobbying and shedding tears for even a squeek.