Pakistan F-16(AM/BM MLU,A/B OCU,A/B ADF) upgradation to F-16 V Standards

[Paksanity]

It isn't wise to throw money on F-16s we just upgraded (MLU). Block-52+ also do not require an upgrade for a decade. Wise thing to do is pick used ones and ask for upgrade 18-24 in number. Ask for new ones (about 18-24) of V or 61 standard after 1-2 years from now. If US becomes overtly hostile and places undeclared sanctions, Russia and China are there always. Give access to Arabian Sea to Russian goods via CPEC and alleviate Russian+Chinese concerns in Afghanistan and Pakistan will have good alternate to US arms.

However we don't have to rush to assumptions. Pak-US ties have seen more than its fair share of ups and downs and this I believe is a passing phase. I look at it in the backdrop of disappearing Obama's influence on Congress, their recent hostilities and rising sentiment of Anti-muslim, pro white America in election campaigns. Once things settle down, it won't be as bad as we are assuming it to be.

 

[cloud4000]

It isn't wise to throw money on F-16s we just upgraded (MLU). Block-52+ also do not require an upgrade for a decade. Wise thing to do is pick used ones and ask for upgrade 18-24 in number. Ask for new ones (about 18-24) of V or 61 standard after 1-2 years from now. If US becomes overtly hostile and places undeclared sanctions, Russia and China are there always. Give access to Arabian Sea to Russian goods via CPEC and alleviate Russian+Chinese concerns in Afghanistan and Pakistan will have good alternate to US arms.

By used F-16s from elsewhere does not need the approval of Congress; and Turkey can do the MLU upgrades. Still I don't see the point of buying either used or new F-16s if there is a constant threat of sanctions. Even if purchases are approved, there can be sanctions placed on weapons or spare parts.

I also doubt Russia will be any better. Like US, they will only offer Pakistan a limited selection of weapons. India has even more influence over Russia than US. And Russia may be using Pakistan to score a better deal with India.

However we don't have to rush to assumptions. Pak-US ties have seen more than its fair share of ups and downs and this I believe is a passing phase. I look at it in the backdrop of disappearing Obama's influence on Congress, their recent hostilities and rising sentiment of Anti-muslim, pro white America in election campaigns. Once things settle down, it won't be as bad as we are assuming it to be

You are assuming a lot. Pakistan is facing hostility from both a US president and US Congress, both controlled by different parties. This is not some temporary thing, but a new phase in Pakistan-US relations. With the signing of CPEC, US clearly sees Pakistan in China's camp. It doesn't make Pakistan an enemy, but it's not a friend either. And with US keen on bringing India into its anti-China coalition, leaving Pakistan out. Things just changed around 2010-2011 with Salala, Raymond Davis, and OBL raid.

Since then, US has slashed economic aid, military aid, and CSF to Pakistan. It has blocked Pakistan from buying naval vessels from Perry-class destroyers to coastal cutters. It seems to limit weapon purchases to only those related to anti-militant and counter-terrorism.

And considering that Pakistan is a non-NATO ally, it's definitely not treated like one.

 

[Dalit]

It isn't wise to throw money on F-16s we just upgraded (MLU). Block-52+ also do not require an upgrade for a decade. Wise thing to do is pick used ones and ask for upgrade 18-24 in number. Ask for new ones (about 18-24) of V or 61 standard after 1-2 years from now. If US becomes overtly hostile and places undeclared sanctions, Russia and China are there always. Give access to Arabian Sea to Russian goods via CPEC and alleviate Russian+Chinese concerns in Afghanistan and Pakistan will have good alternate to US arms.

However we don't have to rush to assumptions. Pak-US ties have seen more than its fair share of ups and downs and this I believe is a passing phase. I look at it in the backdrop of disappearing Obama's influence on Congress, their recent hostilities and rising sentiment of Anti-muslim, pro white America in election campaigns. Once things settle down, it won't be as bad as we are assuming it to be.

The Americans will only offer the F-16s if they require something substantial from our side. Until then, we can forget any military hardware let alone F-16s.

Pakistan is going to have to change its mindset regarding the dependence and acquisition of hardware from the US. We have to face the reality which is that our relation with the US is never going to be same under any presidency. Without going into any details, too much has happened and the US has made up its mind regarding the role it wants to handout to Pakistan. The role for Pakistan is to be subservient to India, ditch China i.e. CPEC and give up its nuclear weapons. We all know that none of this is going to happen. It would therefore be too much to have any expectations where the Americans are going to dole out F-16s or other hardware. We are not an "ally" or "non NATO ally". We never were. These are just hollow and fancy names. We are only a means to an end for the Americans and that is how they will treat Pakistan in every matter. That is how they have always conducted business with Pakistan.

Russia and China are the suppliers which we need to focus on. Russian offer for Su-35 clearly illustrates that they are willing mend ties. The Russians are stepping in to fill the void left by the Americans. They are doing this very smartly and patiently. We really need to make most of this opportunity and try to secure an order of a few batches at least. We are awaiting the Indian news on Rafale. The Russians are indeed upset at the Indians for ditching their Su-35 offer during the MMRCA tender. Once the deal is confirmed between India and France and the Americans don't budge, I'm certain we are bound to hear something regarding the Su-35 deal. It is only a matter of time because our options are quite limited and such Russian offers don't come very often in Pakistan's case.

We should continue to operate the current fleet of F-16s as long as we can. We shouldn't opt for anymore F-16s under the current circumstances. This would tantamount to taking unnecessary risks. The best way forward is to keep inducting new JF-17 airframes and preferably try to secure a Su-35 deal. Otherwise, going for a more advanced Chinese alternative is the safest option.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Pakistan cannot upgrade because of

1 US Congress which already stalled 8 F-16 deal which Obama Administration offered to Pakistan
2 Indian Lobby which would not let them (US) which can hurt em and their plan to make Pakistan isolated
3 People like Hussain Haqqani working there anti-Pakistani movements
4 If US suppose upgrade our F-16 to F-16 V they will attach many string to it...
5 and when there'll be string they want us to do what they ask us to do...

so i Guess we should move from US now and Look to China and Russia...

Sir one more thing. Some components of Viper will be supplied by => Elbit Systems. An Israeli company. We can exercise some influence by this route too.

But on the topic , if US is not willing to supply the upgrade, why not use other options , " Within Europe and Nato"? I mean you can get an AESA from Selex , same for some EW and electronics.
This way you are keeping F16s away from China and getting an upgrade without any tension about sanctions . But yes this too will require a permission from US.

The Americans will only offer the F-16s if they require something substantial from our side. Until then, we can forget any military hardware let alone F-16s.

Pakistan is going to have to change its mindset regarding the dependence and acquisition of hardware from the US. We have to face the reality which is that our relation with the US is never going to be same under any presidency. Without going into any details, too much has happened and the US has made up its mind regarding the role it wants to handout to Pakistan. The role for Pakistan is to be subservient to India, ditch China i.e. CPEC and give up its nuclear weapons. We all know that none of this is going to happen. It would therefore be too much to have any expectations where the Americans are going to dole out F-16s or other hardware. We are not an "ally" or "non NATO ally". We never were. These are just hollow and fancy names. We are only a means to an end for the Americans and that is how they will treat Pakistan in every matter. That is how they have always conducted business with Pakistan.

Russia and China are the suppliers which we need to focus on. Russian offer for Su-35 clearly illustrates that they are willing mend ties. The Russians are stepping in to fill the void left by the Americans. They are doing this very smartly and patiently. We really need to make most of this opportunity and try to secure an order of a few batches at least. We are awaiting the Indian news on Rafale. The Russians are indeed upset at the Indians for ditching their Su-35 offer during the MMRCA tender. Once the deal is confirmed between India and France and the Americans don't budge, I'm certain we are bound to hear something regarding the Su-35 deal. It is only a matter of time because our options are quite limited and such Russian offers don't come very often in Pakistan's case.

We should continue to operate the current fleet of F-16s as long as we can. We shouldn't opt for anymore F-16s under the current circumstances. This would tantamount to taking unnecessary risks. The best way forward is to keep inducting new JF-17 airframes and preferably try to secure a Su-35 deal. Otherwise, going for a more advanced Chinese alternative is the safest option.

Su35 was not ditched in MMRCA, it was Mig35.

 

[Dalit]

Sir one more thing. Some components of Viper will be supplied by => Elbit Systems. An Israeli company. We can exercise some influence by this route too.

But on the topic , if US is not willing to supply the upgrade, why not use other options , " Within Europe and Nato"? I mean you can get an AESA from Selex , same for some EW and electronics.
This way you are keeping F16s away from China and getting an upgrade without any tension about sanctions . But yes this too will require a permission from US.



Su35 was not ditched in MMRCA, it was Mig35.

I stand corrected.

Europe isn't going to supply anything without the consent of the US. In fact, previous attempts to acquire European platforms have been thwarted by the US in a similar fashion. Mainly due to reliance on US components. Everyone vividly remembers the Gripen saga. It is unrealistic.

Russia and China are the only realistic sources for Pakistan.

 

[alimobin memon]

F16 a good plane no doubt. But it is not invincible so let it go and move on to Chinese and russian and home grown jets especially

 

[barbarosa]

PAF should up grade these all, but effort for the J10 C or SU 35.

 

[Pindi Boy]

i think pakistan needs to move away from the burgers and the bagels and the other juicey stuff and go for the hard stuff vodka!

Are you talking about this one???

 

[shah1398]

My Questions: If Taiwan can upgrade their old F-16s to F-16 V standards why Pakistan cannot upgrade their old F-16s?

If U refer to history then U would find that atleast till 2008 Taiwan was not able to upgrade their old F-16s mainly because of effective pressure/opposition of China. But when Uncle Sam felt that Taiwan has to be given muscle against China to bring in some parity with China so it made the move and got Taiwanese F-16s upgraded to latest version. Same holds good for us. If Uncle Sam wants we shud get latest stuff he would get every bill passed. Otherwise no use of hitting head on wall.

 

[Zibago]

I find the chances very slim given the fact that they created hurdles F 16 sales to us its better if we decrease our dependence on American arms that require heavy diplomatic dealings whenever we need upgrades

 

[Blue Marlin]

Are you talking about this one???

if your talking about that then your moving from bagels and burgers to tea(uk),Spain(tomato sauce), italy(pasta,pizza), germany(sausages).

 

[Pindi Boy]

if your talking about that then your moving from bagels and burgers to tea(uk),Spain(tomato sauce), italy(pasta,pizza), germany(sausages).

All the stuff you have mention is quite Expnensive and difficult to get

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Sir one more thing. Some components of Viper will be supplied by => Elbit Systems. An Israeli company. We can exercise some influence by this route too.

But on the topic , if US is not willing to supply the upgrade, why not use other options , " Within Europe and Nato"? I mean you can get an AESA from Selex , same for some EW and electronics.
This way you are keeping F16s away from China and getting an upgrade without any tension about sanctions . But yes this too will require a permission from US.
.

The main thing is US permission if US permits we can even upgrade F-16 to F-16 V from US why going for Selex... Even if Pakistan have to Buy Second hand used F-16 still needs US permission

China is not a problem here... US keeps a close eye on t's F-16

 

[Cool_Soldier]

F 16 option can not be ignored as we have long term expertise with it but it always hurts us in terms of political glitches.
EF Typhoon is an ideal choice but price tag is too high for us.
For us left available options are only SU 35 or J10 C.

 

[araz]

You are right but these aged F-16 will become useless after 20-25 years. If Bahrain, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea and other countries can upgrade their F-16s why we cannot try to request Americans, we are an important ally and we have solid reasons for it.

In the word of Mirza Jee
Aah Ko chahiay ek umr asr honay tak
Kon jeeta hai teeri zulf kay sar honay tak
Bhai 25 yrs more is enough for these fighters. the world woulfd have moved on and so would we.
So in essence
hum nay mana kay taghaful na karo gay lekin
Khaak ho jain gay hum tumko khabar honay tak.
A