Pakistan Clarifies Conditions for Tactical Nuclear Weapon Use Against India

[Nilgiri]

If Pakistan uses Nasr mounted Neutron Bombs it will not make any significant blast,just massive neutron flux which wont last long either. But that Neutron flux will penetrate armored divisions and kill or incapacitate the crew,thus stopping a massive armored assault by India .

Read up on neutron transport and modern composite tank armour before spouting off on 1960 era theories.

1 kiloton sized neutron weapons, especially from a country that has no demonstrable Pu test or neutron test, would have marginal effect on even T-72s which have boronated armour. ERA and other NBC liners further increased tank resilience to fast neutrons.

There's a reason why the US and west stopped dead in their tracks in neutron bomb development...when they did tests and simulations on armour columns. The supposed advantage that neutron bombs were supposed to afford over regular thermal and pressure damage was found to be grossly overestimated (i.e their ranges were found to be quite similar when easy precautions had been taken by the armour side regarding armour development and other NBC mitigation technologies).

Plus no armour group is going to go in without adequate anti-air protection with radar and mobile SAM. A slow moving cruise missile would be a ripe target.

So if India does credibly establish that Nukes had been used,which will be very difficult as it was just a Neutron bomb which does not make mushroom clouds and very low residual radiation,by that time many Indian soldiers will already be our POWs as we just stopped a massive armored assault in its track.

Again shows how little you know about nukes. 1 kiloton nuke effects, ground or air-burst are easily noticeable by even the oldest of satellites both optically and thermally....neutron or regular.

Neutron bombs have thermal and optical presence, they do not go away....they are just reduced compared to having a DU or other tamper. They stay easily noticeable and measurable to anyone watching....because considerable fission still occurs at ground zero.

So India firing Strategic Missiles on Pakistan will also mean killing own soldiers while there will still be no conclusive evidence of a Nuclear weapons use by Pakistan,and most probably India firring Agni will be considered first strike by the rest of the world and many Indians,and then the cherry on the top will be Agni Killing a brigade or two of Indian soldiers,and starting a "Second Strike" by Pakistan.

We are not going to counter by way of targetting the origin of the fire. Strategic warheads will be sent on their way to the known nuclear infrastructure and cities of Pakistan. Engaging in any level of nuclear weapons use will invoke automatic level 10 response from India if the former succeeds in any major capacity.

Unless you believe your forces are so weak that Indian troops will have already entered Pakistan's cities by the time Nasr is used and somehow succeeds somewhere....thats the only way Indian troops get caught in Indian nuclear explosions on Pakistan.

 

[macnurv]

For all the blab blab and yada yada by Indians and so called international experts Pakistan is very clear about its policy. You attack us we will use the nukes, its a zero-sum game. Everyone looses. The easiest way out of this is not to attack or threaten Pakistan by Bharti jokers. Its a time tested policy of mutual destruction, the only way out of this stupid situation is Indian government start behaving sanely instead of crazy right wing war mongers and establish clear lines of communications.
When IA chief goofs up such as we can do a limited war with Pakistan, common sense is too much to expect at the moment.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Has India ever been the first to initiate hostilities against Pakistan? What could it possibly gain from attacking a nuclear-armed neighbor?

Another 26/11 might initiate. I am just speculating. Or it can be a Kargil like influx which the govt wants to punish.
However the onus is on GoP to rein its non state actors operating out of its soil, and no misadventures like Kargil.

Until then both armies will stock weapons and country in general will live in peace.

So in simple words your predicting a world war 3 huh ??

WW3? Who will come and fight on ur behalf? China. Definitely they wont. Pakistan will lose its moral authority the moment it launches a tactical Nuke.

The time is long gone when Japan was bombed. The world will simply wont permit another Nuk attack. If India uses it, we will have to face repercussions. However we have NFU. So nothing to worry about as an Indian.

We don't want to nuke india...we just want Sir Modi to continue his policies without hindrance and our objectives will be met without using a single bullet.

Hahaha.

Next Joke pls. I shall try to laugh.

 

[Aryan2002]

There is no way India can destroy Pakistan without being wiped away from the slate of the world. If india gets destroyed means the only hindu state from the face of the earth would be gone but if Pakistan gets destroyed (which is not possible inshaAllah), there are 1.5 billions Muslims and 54 Muslim countries. We are idol breakers and successors of Mehmood Ghaznavi. His holy mission will continue.

You are the successors of Mehmoud Ghaznavi and Idol breakers but his illegitimate successors....

The nose cone of Nasr missile is only 25 Cm wide. Goes to show how much Pakistan has miniaturized their nukes.

Sounds pretty stealthy

For all the blab blab and yada yada by Indians and so called international experts Pakistan is very clear about its policy. You attack us we will use the nukes, its a zero-sum game. Everyone looses. The easiest way out of this is not to attack or threaten Pakistan by Bharti jokers. Its a time tested policy of mutual destruction, the only way out of this stupid situation is Indian government start behaving sanely instead of crazy right wing war mongers and establish clear lines of communications.
When IA chief goofs up such as we can do a limited war with Pakistan, common sense is too much to expect at the moment.

You guys are sick.............First of all India never attacked you.........Nanga nahay ga kaya nichode ga kaya.......You guys have nothing to lose but we have a lot to........I have never seen an idiot like you people. You havent learnt your lesson. Do you think we need to attack you. Looking at your and your illegitimate fore fathers history, you are gonna go down the drain by self. I can see the frustration in your comment you poor sole.

 

[Indika]

However the onus is on GoP to rein its non state actors operating out of its soil, and no misadventures like Kargil.

Non-state actor is a nice sounding word for proxy created by Americans to defend its ally. Any attack originating from pakistan ( or non state, proxy,ally,... etc) should be dealt with severe response. The problem is more we give them room for such words farther they stretch it. Kandhahar hijack, mumbai 9/11, terrorist attacks are directly orchestrated by pakistan , India ended up pussy footing and listening to all sorts of non sense without taking any action.

By not taking any action India has simply given them excuse to continue their waywardness. Mumbai 9/11 should have received severe retaliatory response. As for as nukes are concerned what holds good for them also holds good for us.
India should also threaten to use nuke if any further terrorist attacks are conducted on indian soil. Though it will lead to nuclear brinkmanship it will deliver a stern message that no more shenanigans will be tolerated.

 

[nForce]

There is no way India can destroy Pakistan without being wiped away from the slate of the world. If india gets destroyed means the only hindu state from the face of the earth would be gone but if Pakistan gets destroyed (which is not possible inshaAllah), there are 1.5 billions Muslims and 54 Muslim countries. We are idol breakers and successors of Mehmood Ghaznavi. His holy mission will continue.

hehe.. will you get a place in any of those 54 countries ? Do you know how the Arabs treat you ?

Ohh the reasons I visit PDF for..

First you give a try to test mighty Cold Start and you will know where it will take the situation, and remember Pakistan now have 2nd strike capability too.

Buddy, it's not India that lost half the country. Cold or hot, you will get to know, when it becomes imminent. Right now, we have other things to worry about

 

[shaheenmissile]

Read up on neutron transport and modern composite tank armour before spouting off on 1960 era theories.

1 kiloton sized neutron weapons, especially from a country that has no demonstrable Pu test or neutron test, would have marginal effect on even T-72s which have boronated armour. ERA and other NBC liners further increased tank resilience to fast neutrons.

There's a reason why the US and west stopped dead in their tracks in neutron bomb development...when they did tests and simulations on armour columns. The supposed advantage that neutron bombs were supposed to afford over regular thermal and pressure damage was found to be grossly overestimated (i.e their ranges were found to be quite similar when easy precautions had been taken by the armour side regarding armour development and other NBC mitigation technologies).

Plus no armour group is going to go in without adequate anti-air protection with radar and mobile SAM. A slow moving cruise missile would be a ripe target.



Again shows how little you know about nukes. 1 kiloton nuke effects, ground or air-burst are easily noticeable by even the oldest of satellites both optically and thermally....neutron or regular.

Neutron bombs have thermal and optical presence, they do not go away....they are just reduced compared to having a DU or other tamper. They stay easily noticeable and measurable to anyone watching....because considerable fission still occurs at ground zero.



We are not going to counter by way of targetting the origin of the fire. Strategic warheads will be sent on their way to the known nuclear infrastructure and cities of Pakistan. Engaging in any level of nuclear weapons use will invoke automatic level 10 response from India if the former succeeds in any major capacity.

Unless you believe your forces are so weak that Indian troops will have already entered Pakistan's cities by the time Nasr is used and somehow succeeds somewhere....thats the only way Indian troops get caught in Indian nuclear explosions on Pakistan.

As I mentioned already, Pakistan's nasr has a nose cone of only 25 cm. Having a working nuclear weapon of such a small size is impossible without using Plutonium and boosted fission.
So you saying that Pakistan has not demonstrated PU abilities is just absurd.
It's impossible to make a nuclear weapon of less than 25 cm wide by using Uranium alone

 

[Nilgiri]

As I mentioned already, Pakistan's nasr has a nose cone of only 25 cm. Having a working nuclear weapon of such a small size is impossible without using Plutonium and boosted fission.
So you saying that Pakistan has not demonstrated PU abilities is just absurd.
It's impossible to make a nuclear weapon of less than 25 cm wide by using Uranium alone

So you are admitting Pakistan is gambling everything on an unproven/untested design?

Or that Nasr warheads are all hoaxes to begin with. That must be a possibility too right?

BTW, you can totally make a uranium design work less than 25 cm (you want me to show you the calculations?)

Both (Pu and U) are going to be very inefficient at tactical sized given the volume constraints for the detonator and reflector...so using Pu instead of U is not going to improve yield that much at all....because Pu needs significantly more implosion pressure to achieve the same yield as Uranium....which offsets its lower critical mass at small volumes considerably. Things get even worse when we are talking about Gen I spherical designs. I already talked about this in the previous thread.

Thats why its going to be 1kt at best with some neutron flux produced if you look at the size and stats of say the W-66 Neutron warhead (which was considerably larger). Basically you tritium boost, compromise with a small primary and miniaturise the detonator and use no U-238 tamper to allow max neutron flux. That too this is assuming everything goes perfectly for a design that Pakistan has not tested and proven (a big ask in the field of miniaturisation). Compare the number of tests the US and USSR had to do just to improve their pit design from spherical to linear....and you are telling me that Pakistan did this without any testing. I can agree 50% of the way with you if you agree that there was definitely significant Chinese help (in getting say Gen II linear implosion geometries without having to test yourself)....but even then the yield to size ratio makes no sense at the upper boundary (5kt claim)...and the efficacy of this weapon against armour is still in great doubt against T-72 boronated armour + ERA + polyvinyl NBC lining....which you have not responded to.

Thats why I'm not buying the Nasr warhead is all that you claim it to be.

 

[Pakistanisage]

But india have no conditions for nuclear policies.
Our policy is simple and straight, any use of nukes, tactical or low yield, india will only reply by using full scale nuclear attack, and wipe out the enemy country completely.

Considering Pakistan's nuclear capability, any attempt by India to use Strategic Nuclear weapons will meet a massive response by Pakistan's Strategic Nuclear attack, wiping out India as well.

 

[MilSpec]

Lets for moment assume, we did cold start

The use of tactical weapon comes into play on condition that Pakistan armed forces has break down and not willing to fight anymore and country sovereignty is threatened.In this case why would army would use tactical nuclear .

............or Surrender

 

[Nilgiri]

Considering Pakistan's nuclear capability, any attempt by India to use Strategic Nuclear weapons will meet a massive response by Pakistan's Strategic Nuclear attack, wiping out India as well.

Not with the amount of nuclear material Pakistan is diverting to tactical use (which is inherently extremely inefficient use in yield/kg terms) that some are suggesting for Nasr and the like to be significant . That can inflate warhead number but leaves less for strategic use both in absolute and relative terms.

 

[The Deterrent]

@Nilgiri , are you familiar with the concept and working of Hydrodynamic testing of a nuclear warhead?

 

[Soumitra]

Agni tow truck needs paved roads and cannot drive to Deserts. So keep dreeaming.
Only Pakistani missile trucks are all terrain .

Why do we require to send a 5000 km range missile to the desert? did you study geography in school/madarsa

 

[Ind4Ever]

This also comes after the US visit by Nawaz Sharif. Indians were using US to pressurise Pakistan to stop the deployment of these tactical nuclear weapons but this news clearly drains all their efforts into the toilet.

Economy : flopped. Nowhere near in the lost of developing world

Unity : Shaky

Diversity : zero

Armed forces capability defending Pakistan : flopped

Pakistan's last resort against powerful and ever growing India is Nuclear weapons. Well we'll well... Respect is not taken but earned. And one small mistake can end up into a death wish. India don't or Won't developed tactical but full scale nuclear retaliation in strongest ways as possible. We are ready to escalate but we won't start it. And retaliation doesn't require one nuclear strike but just a blip on radar of uninformed BM launch in Pakistan is more than enough for retaliation. Many people here don't know this very fact. It means. Our nukes will be on the way even before your missiles reached India. And in tactical nuke warfare you end up nuking your own home and get whacked for the same by India even if one solider is affected or Martyred.

Very old and very weak strategies is hallmarks of Pakistan establishment for many news now

But India should counter tactical nukes with tactical nukes to destroys as a starter and followed by full massive mushrooms!!!

 

[locker]

First you give a try to test mighty Cold Start and you will know where it will take the situation, and remember Pakistan now have 2nd strike capability too.

I have seen many times this goon comes up with hilarious post. Sometimes he claims he knows that Pakistan establishment on secret missiles and its top secret and now its pakistan second strike capability.
Yes, I know that you will start claiming now that you have 3rd strike capability.......