Pakistan became 25% poorer under PTI: PML-N

[Norwegian]

Regardless of the reasons, we have been returning to the IMF, and the next government will almost certainly do so again.

Not if present govt put a check on imports and current account deficit

However, in terms of dollars, Pakistan's current GDP is lower than that of 2018

Didn't you understand what I wrote above? Nation's gdp is not calculated in US dollars but in local currency. Pakistan's Gdp hasn't decreased in PKR.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1173923661985636352

It's been over three years since the PTI came to power, and fixing a four-year mess in three years should have been a simple task for Imran Khan, who believes he is an expert in everything.

Even under coronavirus pandemic?

 

[Hyde]

Not if present govt put a check on imports and current account deficit

Didn't you understand what I wrote above? Nation's gdp is not calculated in US dollars but in local currency. Pakistan's Gdp hasn't decreased in PKR.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1173923661985636352

I'm aware of that, bro... you've known me for the past ten years or so, so I assumed we'd be on the same page and treat it as common sense

 

[Norwegian]

The reality is that the Pakistani rupee has no value in the international market, and when doing business with the rest of the world, you buy and sell in USD. We could make trillions in Pakistani rupees, but if the rupee loses value, it will be worthless

Your thoughts about macro economy are absurd. Why would Pakistani Rs lose value if imports and debt repayments are balanced by exports and remittances? Devaluation happens when there is extreme imbalance between the two and country is about to default as it happened after Musharraf, Zardari and Nawaz tenures:

Solution? Live within your means. Don't import and take debt when you can't pay back in future. This is the only way to stabilize the value of PKR.

 

[Hyde]

Your thoughts about macro economy are absurd. Why would Pakistani Rs lose value if imports and debt repayments are balanced by exports and remittances? Devaluation happens when there is extreme imbalance between the two and country is about to default as it happened after Musharraf, Zardari and Nawaz tenures:
View attachment 751494
View attachment 751495
Solution? Live within your means. Don't import and take debt when you can't pay back in future. This is the only way to stabilize the value of PKR.

Brother First and foremost, I am shocked if you are the same guy with whom I had a really pleasant talk a few years ago, during which we were mainly on the same page regarding economic policies.... Oh well, that was the PML-N era, and I used to berate them constantly, and now your favourite party is in power... It's intriguing.

I'm not sure what I said was wrong or what fault I find in your last post because I already agree with it.... The only point on which I disagree is that in some instances we must see beyond the numbers, because the life of the average citizen has become a living hell, which it was not three years ago.... Also, during the PTI government, our GDP contracted for the first time in 70 years, when it had always been in positive digits in both PKR and USD... I'm not saying we should tolerate payment imbalances, but the data in the post I was responding to were fudged and I have no incentive to mislead people in order to garner unwelcome support for my favourite party.

I honestly believe the fault line dates back to the previous government, but the general rule is to hold the person in charge responsible, and I believe part of the blame lies with Asad Umar for allowing the rupee to fall freely, as he himself did not predict that the PKR would stabilise after losing about 40% of its value.

My only concern is when i hear stories from Pakistan, sometime I feel very sad for them... So many middle class families are unable to bear the burden of inflation and i already gave example in my previous posts

Time to sleep

 

[Norwegian]

Last, I'd like to emphasise that we should not assume that because Party A is a decent party, Party B must be the devil. Except for a handful, we are all Pakistanis, including PML-N workers and leaders... We all want to see a successful Pakistan, but I'm more interested in comparing who was worse than who; most people have political affiliations, so they're comparing performances to see who is better than who.

I respectfully disagree. If Musharraf, Zardari, Nawaz wanted successful Pakistan, they would have lived within means. As you can see below, trade deficits started to grow during Musharraf, and only got worse during Zardari and Nawaz. Who was gonna fund this growing import bill? Certainly not country's exports and remittances. Hence Pakistan had to go to IMF in 2009, 2014 and 2019 to avoid default situation caused by previous govts wreckless economic policy

 

[Norwegian]

I'm not sure I've ever been satisfied with the performance of the PPP, PML-N, or PTI, but if PTI can pull off a miracle by 2023 and better the lives of ordinary Pakistanis, I'll gladly vote for them.

Macroeconomics is not based on miracles but hard economic science. For a country to succeed economically it must live within its means. Save, invest and grow like ordinary companies do all over the world. Apple, Microsoft, Amazon wasn't built by miracles. Neither was Asian Tigers Singapore, Taiwan, Korea and Hong Kong result of miracles. There was hard continues work and implementation of strict fiscal policies (earn before spend, save before invest) that ultimately made them economic giants today .

 

[Hyde]

I respectfully disagree. If Musharraf, Zardari, Nawaz wanted successful Pakistan, they would have lived within means. As you can see below, trade deficits started to grow during Musharraf, and only got worse during Zardari and Nawaz. Who was gonna fund this growing import bill? Certainly not country's exports and remittances. Hence Pakistan had to go to IMF in 2009, 2014 and 2019 to avoid default situation caused by previous govts wreckless economic policy
View attachment 751499View attachment 751500

In one of my previous posts, I already provided a basic response.

Before we start yelling about the trade deficit, let's take a look at what we import and export.

We purchased around 14-15 billion USD of crude oil in 2020, accounting for 30-40% of our total import cost. Crude oil prices were below 30 dollars until 2003/04, but starting in 2004, they began to rise quickly... as did our import bill, as we had been depending on crude oil for far too long. The majority of the power plants and industries we developed in the 1990s were based on crude and furnace oil. It was also around the same time when the latest 3G technology was being released... As a result, the IT industries in India and China boomed, while we Pakistanis were too busy watching ****.

To address the payment imbalance, we need a long-term solution, and the obvious approach is to grow our exports by establishing new markets and launching new products. I don't think it is fair to blame 1 man for this fault line as it should have been addressed by successive Governments from 1998 to 2021

 

[Norwegian]

The only point on which I disagree is that in some instances we must see beyond the numbers, because the life of the average citizen has become a living hell, which it was not three years ago

Lebanese people also had a great life until their national ponzi scheme (similar to Pakistan) collapsed and the country went bankrupt last year

Lebanon's financial meltdown

The Lebanese pound has depreciated about 90% in the past 18 months, driving annual food inflation to 400%, erasing salaries and savings, and pushing more than half the nation into poverty. All this comes at a time when the country is battling the devastation wrought by COVID-19, as well as the...

www.tehrantimes.com

Also, during the PTI government, our GDP contracted for the first time in 70 years, when it had always been in positive digits in both PKR and USD...

Fake news. Pakistan's Gdp never contracted in PKR. Contraction means negative Gdp growth. This hasn't happened so far

https://twitter.com/x/status/1207324669721710593

 

[Norwegian]

I honestly believe the fault line dates back to the previous government, but the general rule is to hold the person in charge responsible, and I believe part of the blame lies with Asad Umar for allowing the rupee to fall freely, as he himself did not predict that the PKR would stabilise after losing about 40% of its value.

There was no free fall. PKR was way overvalued during Ishaq Dollar years. It had to be brought down to its real value by market forces

 

[Zibago]

I've seen many of economy related threads u opened where u criticize PTI's performance while praising PML-N. At least for those u used some other sources...
...but this time u have sunk to a new low...using an article so biased that it is actually based on PML-N stooges themselves.

With citizens like u...Pakistan doesn't need enemies. U modern day Mir Jafars are enough to destroy Pakistan. Have some shame...are u seriously putting a political party above the country's well being? For what? Some financial gain? Did they "sifarish" u or ur family into a job? Did they give u some cushy government position? No amount is big enough to put the country's well being at stake. Sure PTI has its faults...they could do better...but to say PML-N was the best...surely that has got to be a joke? How long have they been in power(back and forth)? Certainly they have had enough years in power to show us their miracles...
...when did Pakistan become the next up and coming miracle like Singapore, China, South Korea? Never...
...Pakistan was as broke as ever under the masterful guidance of PML-N all these years. So this constant praise despite their record(over and over) only means that u stand to gain some personal benefit from PML-N. It's just pitiful to see ppl loyal to some party or "leader" rather than the country.

He is another one of those paid poodles Mariam hired after consultation with Ukar Saif

 

[Hyde]

Lebanese people also had a great life until their national ponzi scheme (similar to Pakistan) collapsed and the country went bankrupt last year

Lebanon's financial meltdown

The Lebanese pound has depreciated about 90% in the past 18 months, driving annual food inflation to 400%, erasing salaries and savings, and pushing more than half the nation into poverty. All this comes at a time when the country is battling the devastation wrought by COVID-19, as well as the...

www.tehrantimes.com

Fake news. Pakistan's Gdp never contracted in PKR. Contraction means negative Gdp growth. This hasn't happened so far

https://twitter.com/x/status/1207324669721710593

Once again you are putting words back in my mouth. I clearly said that our GDP contracted in USD... For the first time .. as we normally see growth in both PKR and USD

The point is PKR lost the value and GDP growth fell it under 3% so the reasons are obvious.

Anyways i have had enough arguments... Time to sleep

Peace

 

[Zibago]

He thinks an import and consumption led growth where exports are stagnant and uncompetitive is good

 

[Norwegian]

My only concern is when i hear stories from Pakistan, sometime I feel very sad for them... So many middle class families are unable to bear the burden of inflation and i already gave example in my previous posts

Don't be. Just read stories about Lebanon where they are having 400 percent inflation thanks to 2 decades of Ishaq Dollar like policies

As economic crisis wears on, Lebanese can’t even afford manoucheh

Even in the heart of Beirut’s most vibrant districts, it’s an uphill battle for smaller manoucheh bakeries to stay open.

www.aljazeera.com

Lebanon crisis could rank among world’s three worst in 150 years

World Bank says Lebanon’s economic and financial crisis could be one of the top three global worst in 150 years.

www.aljazeera.com

‘Little hope left’: Lebanon’s paralysis and a collapsing state

International community fails to speed up government formation in Lebanon, even with the economy in meltdown.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Zibago]

If we think about it fairly, PTI has done an excellent job dealing with the coronavirus and internal difficulties, but when it comes to the economy, Imran Khan has clearly failed badly and lacks fundamental knowledge of economy.

Just look at our economy in 2018 and compare it with 2021, it looks like we have not attained any growth

We were heading towards a disaster with an unsustainable deficit
If we continued on our consumption led path we would've gone bankrupt

My dear Brother, I have played enough number games on this forum and compared GDP and other statistics for 15 years. The fact is If the ultimate measure of any growth is the well-being of its people, then hearing from my Pakistani relatives and friends has left me unsatisfied. There used to be upper, middle, and lower class people in Pakistan, but now inflation is breaking the backbone of the middle class, and those I know who could afford a car in Pakistan are finding excuses to switch back to motorcycles, and those who could afford motorcycles are finding it difficult to meet their household's basic monthly expenses.

I don't want to start a debate about economic indicators, but even if you compare our "fake GDP" of $310 billion USD around 2018, we could have easily been around $370 billion USD by now, but the fact is your "true" GDP is hardly managing around $280-290, and despite the rupee depreciation, we have not seen much growth in our exports, unemployment, or the lives of our people have not improved. Imran Khan says "Ghabrana nahi" since he is still learning and talks about "we will do this and that" and frequently forgets that time is running out and now is the time to act.

Qarz ley kar joylans jao bachay khush hoan gay par karz wapis phir bhi karna hy
A good economic policy isnt only about making people happy it also has to be sustainable for the long run warna Lebanon ka haal sab mey dekh lia

Source farrukh saleem lol perception lol

Farukh Saleem key peeley charts

 

[Norwegian]

The majority of the power plants and industries we developed in the 1990s were based on crude and furnace oil.

Exactly. Instead of investing in hydro dams, leaders of the 90s Benazir and Nawaz Sharif were busy investing in unsustainable oil based IPPs. Its ultimate result was that Pakistan suffered chronic loadshedding during Musharraf and Zardari years later on. It also resulted in most expensive electricity generation in the region

I clearly said that our GDP contracted in USD... For the first time .. as we normally see growth in both PKR and USD

The point is PKR lost the value and GDP growth fell it under 3% so the reasons are obvious.

There is a difference between Gdp contraction and Gdp revaluation. Indias Gdp contracted in real terms as it posted negative Gdp growth during coronavirus pandemic. Meanwhile Pakistan posted positive gdp growth of 4 percent.

India’s GDP will decline by 9.6% in 2020-’21, says World Bank

South Asia will register a negative growth rate of 7.7%, the World Bank said.

amp.scroll.in

UPDATE 3-Pakistan sets 4.8% GDP growth target for 2021/2022 financial year - planning minister

Pakistan's government has set a 4.8% GDP growth target for the financial year starting on July 1 as the country recovers from the worst of the coronavirus pandemic, Planning Minister Asad Umar said on Friday.

mobile.reuters.com