Pakistan Army testing MBT-3000 next moth ?

[Sulman Badshah]

What about the new NESCOM APS?

Never knew about NESCOM APS .... any news or update related to it

 

[cengizkahra330]

First, why are there so many typos in this forum? Be a little more professional, people. Second, anybody have info on how much Pakistan is spending on R&D because I agree, buying equipment from another country is not an achievement at all. Pakistan needs to get out of its rut and invest in its own production

 

[Bratva]

1. i insist, no APS to date has presented a 100% or even 90% results.

2. The reason is that Ukrainian Zaslon APS is perhaps most innovative of them all, tested by Army and performance was declared unsatisfactory. About Trophy, the test video represents test under "ideal" conditions.

3. Lastly, trophy performing "beyond expectations" against ATGMs fired by Hamas etc. Not a good way to measure an APS system, how many types of ATGMs do they possess? Everyone knows.



basic Al Khalid

1. I'm still not getting what you are trying to say. On what basis you are trying to say no APS has achieved 90 percent results when trophy systems performed as it is in both off-field (tests) and on-field ( during combat).

ATGM or RPG usually comes in a straight line and perform no evasive maneuver. Whether it comes from front, right, left back or from Top attack mode, It would come in a straight line. Interception either in ideal conditions or combat conditions would be same and would achieve the same result. . how can you say Trophy doesn't produce 90 percent results ? Trophy performed perfectly in both ideal and combat conditions as it is evident from those live leak videos.

2. Zaslon Active Protection System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Despite Zaslon being first APS, does it had AESA radars which provided a full 360 degree protection? No, first shortcoming of Zaslon. Did it provided full 360 grad protection when Army tested it? No. Hence that's why it was declared unsatisfactory.

Now let's come to trophy

Credits: @500


Reaction time of Trophy: 0.1- 0.6 same as of Zaslon

Speed of projectile which it can intercept: 1200 m/s, next version in making is claimed to be able to intercept the tank projectiles moving at 1600-1800 ms as well as protection against RPG-30 which fires two projectiles, first the dummy which would be rejected and second one would be intercepted

Radar: Aesa. Won't AESA provides more reliable and accurate calculations of all parameters to intercept a threat with a lightning speed ?

EL/M-2133 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Israeli Trophy APS uses better, more reliable, and more expensive technology than the Russian Drozd (or its successors, like Arena.) For about $300,000 per system, Trophy will protect a vehicle from ATGMs as well as RPGs

The Solution No One Wants


3. I didn't get your point no.3 as well. Trophy has been tested against all types of ATGM as the youtube shows. What do you trying to say? Trophy won't be able to intercept modern ATGM ?

Rafael is already developing follow-on versions for the Trophy. Future models will be able to engage a wider target set, including kinetic threats

June 2010

Israeli Active Protection Systems for Armor

 

[500]

i insist, no APS to date has presented a 100% or even 90% results.

For me even 50% would be excellent result. But Trophy presented well over 90% results.

The reason is that Ukrainian Zaslon APS is perhaps most innovative of them all, tested by Army and performance was declared unsatisfactory. About Trophy, the test video represents test under "ideal" conditions.

Zaslon is most primitive APS of all. It lacks normal radar and just blows up when anything passes by, so it cant correctly calculate speed and classify targets. Also it blows up extremely close to vehicle, that in most of cases can be not enough for protection and all. In addition, Trophy radar can calculate sources of fire, and help crew to destroy them.

Finally protrude sticks of Zaslon can be very easily damaged during driving, especially in built up area. Also they damage tank's gun

Zaslon was never tested on move, there is no normal slow motion footage of it in static as well.

Lastly, trophy performing "beyond expectations" agains ATGMs fired by Hamas etc. Not a good way to measure an APS system, how many types of ATGMs do they possess? Everyone knows.

Hamas used Kornet, Konkurs ATGM, RPG-29, PG-7V, PG-7VR. These are most common threats all over the world.

Out of all these threats Varta can protect only vs Konkurs and only in frontal arc.

 

[Dazzler]

For me even 50% would be excellent result. But Trophy presented well over 90% results.


Zaslon is most primitive APS of all. It lacks normal radar and just blows up when anything passes by, so it cant correctly calculate speed and classify targets. Also it blows up extremely close to vehicle, that in most of cases can be not enough for protection and all. In addition, Trophy radar can calculate sources of fire, and help crew to destroy them.

Finally protrude sticks of Zaslon can be very easily damaged during driving, especially in built up area. Also they damage tank's gun

Zaslon was never tested on move, there is no normal slow motion footage of it in static as well.


Hamas used Kornet, Konkurs ATGM, RPG-29, PG-7V, PG-7VR. These are most common threats all over the world.

Out of all these threats Varta can protect only vs Konkurs and only in frontal arc.

As far as i know, zaslon has at least three versions, had a discussion with tarasenkov on this, improvements are there in each version, the one pak army tested was the second version.

Regarding hamas's ATGM capability, the list is pretty much obsolete with the exception of Konkrus and to some degree Kronet. Against respectable ATGMS like Invar/ Reflex/ hellfire, HJ-10xx and other advanced threats, it would be the real test of the system.

Trophy may well be a good option for Isreal considering the current threats they face.

 

[500]

Regarding hamas's ATGM capability, the list is pretty much obsolete with the exception of Konkrus and to some degree Kronet.

Kornet is much more advanced than Konkurs and its currently newest ATGM in Russia inventory.

Threats I listed above will be the main threats to tanks for decades all over the world.

Against respectable ATGMS like Invar/ Reflex/ hellfire, HJ-10xx and other advanced threats, it would be the real test of the system.

There is no any actual difference between the Kornet and ATGMs listed above. All of them have regular trajectory. Kornet is much more powerful than Invar and Reflex and about same as Hellfire and HJ-10.

 

[qamar1990]

What for? Purchasing another country's product is not exactly an achievement!

india should know better…..

 

[Zarvan]

@Horus Chinese president is coming this month can we expect deal off TOT off these Tanks and other ships and stuff @DESERT FIGHTER @Jazzbot @Dazzler @fatman17

 

[IND151]

The MBT-3000 is a recent Chinese main battle tank, developed specially for export. It is being marketed by NORINCO. It is an improved version of VT1A. The MBT-3000 is similar to the Type 99G which is currently in service with the PLA, but has downgraded capabilities such as sights, propulsion and gun. A model of this MBT was publicly presented in 2012. First pictures of this new tank appeared in 2013. It seems that the MBT-300 was proposed for Pakistan as an Al Khalid Mk.2.

This tank is not an entirely new design. It owns its existence to the Soviet T-72 of the Cold War era which has been around for over 30 years. The T-72 proved to be reliable but not too effective in combat. In the 1980s China obtained this tank from Romania and cloned it. The MBT-3000 is the culmination of decades of fine-tuning many tank systems that have been of Soviet origin. Also this tank shows some Western influence in it's design. A number of improvements over the previous Chinese design is substantial, however none of them greatly improved tank's performance.

The MBT-3000 uses proven technology and is cost-effective. This tank is being proposed for developing countries, interested in upgrading their inventory. The MBT-3000 is a superior and more expensive alternative to theVT2, that is another Chinese design for export. However this tank is no match for modern Western MBTs.

This Chinese tank has a low silhouette. It is a key T-72 feature. Hull and turret of the MBT-3000 is of welded steel construction with a layer of composite armor. Also there are modular add-on explosive reactive armor blocks. The MBT-3000 has a redesigned turret with a wedge-shaped armor, similar to that of the Type 99G. Front arc protection has been improved comparing with the previous VT1A. Side skirts can be fitted with reactive armor. The tank has an NBC protection system. It is also fitted with new fire extinguishing and explosion suppression systems.

This machine is also fitted with passive countermeasures system. It links laser threat warning reviver with smoke grenade launching. It reduces the chance of being hit by enemy anti-tank guided weapons.

The MBT-3000 is armed with a fully-stabilized 125-mm smoothbore gun. The gun is fed by an automatic carousel-type loader. The autoloader reduces the tank crew to three and allow to reduce dimensions of the vehicle. Both the gun and autoloader were copied from the Soviet T-72. Loading speed is 8 rounds per minute. This tank fires APFSDS, HEAT and HE/HEF rounds. It is also compatible with gun-launched anti-tank guided missiles. These are Russian 9K119 Refleks (AT-11 Sniper) missiles, produced in China under license. Missiles are launched in the same manner as ordinary munitions. Missiles have a maximum range of 5 000 m. Typically four missiles are carried. This anti-tank guided missile capability is not common in Western designs. A total of 38 rounds are carried for the main gun. 22 of them are loaded into the autoloader and are ready to use. Other rounds are stored inside the hull.

There is also a coaxial 7.62-mm machine gun and roof-mounted 12.7-mm machine gun.

The tank is fully digitalized and is fitted with a battlefield management system. Gunner and commander use a second-generation cooled thermal imagers. It seems that these sights were jointly developed with ASELSAN of Turkey. Fire control system has a hunter-killer capability. This tank can fire accurately on the move. Vehicle is also fitted with a GPS navigation system.

The MBT-3000 has a crew of three, including commander, gunner and driver.

It is claimed that this main battle tank is fitted with an indigenous turbocharged diesel engine, developing 1 300 hp. However it might actually be of Ukrainian origin. It is worth mentioning that the Chinese Army Type 99G is powered by a more powerful engine, developing 1 500 hp and based on a German design. Some sources report that the MBT-3000 might be also fitted with a more powerful diesel, developing 1 500 hp. Engine is mated to an automatic gearbox. This MBT has a deep fording capability. Auxiliary fuel tanks can be fitted for extended range.



https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...A7dEyWjhM_5xY4lYj_HU77w&bvm=bv.74115972,d.c2E

 

[aliaselin]

downgraded capabilities such as sights, propulsion and gun

No evidence for sights and gun, while MBT-3000 has better gearbox

 

[Zarvan]

@Dazzler @DESERT FIGHTER @Icarus @fatman17 Chinese president is coming this month Is MBT 3000 and Submarine deals can take place ? @Horus

 

[Dazzler]

@Dazzler @DESERT FIGHTER @Icarus @fatman17 Chinese president is coming this month Is MBT 3000 and Submarine deals can take place ? @Horus

not sure about other deals, but no deal for mbt 3000 till it is tested in Pakistan and satisfies army requirements.

The MBT-3000 is a recent Chinese main battle tank, developed specially for export. It is being marketed by NORINCO. It is an improved version of VT1A. The MBT-3000 is similar to the Type 99G which is currently in service with the PLA, but has downgraded capabilities such as sights, propulsion and gun. A model of this MBT was publicly presented in 2012. First pictures of this new tank appeared in 2013. It seems that the MBT-300 was proposed for Pakistan as an Al Khalid Mk.2.

This tank is not an entirely new design. It owns its existence to the Soviet T-72 of the Cold War era which has been around for over 30 years. The T-72 proved to be reliable but not too effective in combat. In the 1980s China obtained this tank from Romania and cloned it. The MBT-3000 is the culmination of decades of fine-tuning many tank systems that have been of Soviet origin. Also this tank shows some Western influence in it's design. A number of improvements over the previous Chinese design is substantial, however none of them greatly improved tank's performance.

The MBT-3000 uses proven technology and is cost-effective. This tank is being proposed for developing countries, interested in upgrading their inventory. The MBT-3000 is a superior and more expensive alternative to theVT2, that is another Chinese design for export. However this tank is no match for modern Western MBTs.

This Chinese tank has a low silhouette. It is a key T-72 feature. Hull and turret of the MBT-3000 is of welded steel construction with a layer of composite armor. Also there are modular add-on explosive reactive armor blocks. The MBT-3000 has a redesigned turret with a wedge-shaped armor, similar to that of the Type 99G. Front arc protection has been improved comparing with the previous VT1A. Side skirts can be fitted with reactive armor. The tank has an NBC protection system. It is also fitted with new fire extinguishing and explosion suppression systems.

This machine is also fitted with passive countermeasures system. It links laser threat warning reviver with smoke grenade launching. It reduces the chance of being hit by enemy anti-tank guided weapons.

The MBT-3000 is armed with a fully-stabilized 125-mm smoothbore gun. The gun is fed by an automatic carousel-type loader. The autoloader reduces the tank crew to three and allow to reduce dimensions of the vehicle. Both the gun and autoloader were copied from the Soviet T-72. Loading speed is 8 rounds per minute. This tank fires APFSDS, HEAT and HE/HEF rounds. It is also compatible with gun-launched anti-tank guided missiles. These are Russian 9K119 Refleks (AT-11 Sniper) missiles, produced in China under license. Missiles are launched in the same manner as ordinary munitions. Missiles have a maximum range of 5 000 m. Typically four missiles are carried. This anti-tank guided missile capability is not common in Western designs. A total of 38 rounds are carried for the main gun. 22 of them are loaded into the autoloader and are ready to use. Other rounds are stored inside the hull.

There is also a coaxial 7.62-mm machine gun and roof-mounted 12.7-mm machine gun.

The tank is fully digitalized and is fitted with a battlefield management system. Gunner and commander use a second-generation cooled thermal imagers. It seems that these sights were jointly developed with ASELSAN of Turkey. Fire control system has a hunter-killer capability. This tank can fire accurately on the move. Vehicle is also fitted with a GPS navigation system.

The MBT-3000 has a crew of three, including commander, gunner and driver.

It is claimed that this main battle tank is fitted with an indigenous turbocharged diesel engine, developing 1 300 hp. However it might actually be of Ukrainian origin. It is worth mentioning that the Chinese Army Type 99G is powered by a more powerful engine, developing 1 500 hp and based on a German design. Some sources report that the MBT-3000 might be also fitted with a more powerful diesel, developing 1 500 hp. Engine is mated to an automatic gearbox. This MBT has a deep fording capability. Auxiliary fuel tanks can be fitted for extended range.



https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAG&url=http://www.military-today.com/tanks/mbt_3000.htm&ei=IcAFVPvBEs-fugSosoL4BA&usg=AFQjCNF_eoHA7dEyWjhM_5xY4lYj_HU77w&bvm=bv.74115972,d.c2E

it has no connection with Alkhalid 2, the latter is being developed at tank manufacturing factory @ HIT as a followon development of Alkhalid-1 and is to be displayed at ideas 2014.

 

[Zarvan]

not sure about other deals, but no deal for mbt 3000 till it is tested in Pakistan and satisfies army requirements.




it has no connection with Alkhalid 2, the latter is being developed at tank manufacturing factory @ HIT as a followon development of Alkhalid-1 and is to be displayed at ideas 2014.

But either deal would be signed or Chinese President would visit its trials

 

[Zarvan]

I am talking to Major Jamal S Malik off ISPR about MBT 3000 either that man is hiding something or he has completely no idea about Tanks

 

[IND151]

not sure about other deals, but no deal for mbt 3000 till it is tested in Pakistan and satisfies army requirements.




it has no connection with Alkhalid 2, the latter is being developed at tank manufacturing factory @ HIT as a followon development of Alkhalid-1 and is to be displayed at ideas 2014.

The thread is about MBT 3000 so I posted information related to this MBT.