Pakistan AESA Radar Hope

[gambit]

For the plane sizes like Jf17 or F16 as i mentioned before in my post ~1000 TR AESA is possible.

I doubt that besides myself, anyone on this forum have seen an AESA in full operational glory, and I do not say that as an insult.

As someone who has seen an AESA in its full operational glory, I say: Get the damn thing.

With appropriate software, what it can give the pilot is nothing short of amazing. I would sacrifice distance reach in a larger planar for the shorter distance but far greater capabilities in a smaller AESA -- any day. Back up by AWACS and low altitude tactics, a flight of silent or barely transmitting AESA-equipped fighters can sneak up on larger opponents while masked by clutter. American F-16 pilots train this way relentlessly.

Pakistan Air Force will not regret this investment.

 

[Bilal.]

klj-7 is compatible with aesa antenna from the start, so is v2. it improves search and track speed with minor improvements but does consume more power and adds no working mode. for a new aesa, we may have to wait blk 3. the antenna we saw in recent pics is e-scan antenna.


apg-68 is not aesa, apg 80 is

You mean the picture in which KARF rep is showing it to the army delegation? How many T/R modules can we expect?

 

[Dazzler]

You mean the picture in which KARF rep is showing it to the army delegation? How many T/R modules can we expect?

yep, its an e-scan antenna.

 

[MastanKhan]

I doubt that besides myself, anyone on this forum have seen an AESA in full operational glory, and I do not say that as an insult.

As someone who has seen an AESA in its full operational glory, I say: Get the damn thing.

With appropriate software, what it can give the pilot is nothing short of amazing. I would sacrifice distance reach in a larger planar for the shorter distance but far greater capabilities in a smaller AESA -- any day. Back up by AWACS and low altitude tactics, a flight of silent or barely transmitting AESA-equipped fighters can sneak up on larger opponents while masked by clutter. American F-16 pilots train this way relentlessly.

Pakistan Air Force will not regret this investment.

Hi,

So a smaller aesa in hand is better than a bigger aesa in the ' bush '----hehn.

 

[Basel]

@gambit what is you analysis of Zhuk AE & Vixen-1000e AESA radars and if fitted in JF-17 what pros & cons each will add to it and which one will be better for JF-17?

Request Rejected
.
Zhuk (radar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MastanKhan]

The question is would it be beneficial for Pakistan to equip its JF-17s with AESA radar or not. I think we should rather look into more advanced aircraft for equipping AESA radar, looking at that we can't afford many AESA radars on different fighters. An advanced fighter a truely 4th generation aircrafts should be bought and equipped with AESA radar to create a front line aggressive squadron. This will save money and will meet our requirements.

Webby,

AESA is a force multiplier in itself regardless of what aircraft it is installed on. An AESA equipped JF 17 can take on any of the neighbors aircraft in its current inventory.

Dude why dont you guys think positive sometimes? I know its natural to think and spread nagitivity about your enemy.

U.S would provide AESA radar to UK, Australia or any other country if it wants to. The AESA radar was approved by congress because UAE was giving a big buck of 6 billion dollars, and you dont want to miss that, so congress aproved the deal.

Same goes with the Pakistan and India if they have money they will get the AESA radar if they want to. You should probably know by now that the F-16 that was being offered to India included advance sophisticated technology including meeting the requirements of IAF.

The same shit goes with Pakistan, if it has money! :thumbsup:

But i guess UAE has full right to deny or approve the deal of its type of aircraft to any nation, and dont forget the relations between UAE and Pakistan

And NO!! UAE is not QATAR. :wall:

Hi,

In weapons procurement it is not about a positive or a negative thinking---. It is about what is available to you, at what cost ad what you can do with it.

 

[Viper0011.]

I doubt that besides myself, anyone on this forum have seen an AESA in full operational glory, and I do not say that as an insult.

Are you sure about it ? On a lighter note, I see AESA every day, just youtube it jk. I second your post, if the PAF can get it, then its an investment with a huge pay off, and with some local know how of the platform. Can't go wrong with this investment.

 

[انگریز]

AESA dreams died with NESCOM"s electronics complex.

 

[gambit]

@gambit what is you analysis of Zhuk AE & Vixen-1000e AESA radars and if fitted in JF-17 what pros & cons each will add to it and which one will be better for JF-17?

Request Rejected
.
Zhuk (radar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Based upon sales brochures alone, the advertised capabilities between the two are comparable. But personally, I would pick the Vixen over the Zhuk based upon my own opinion of Russian technology.

The first consideration is antenna/array size the JF-17's radome is capable of containing. Not just size but also antenna/array shape. Both affect beam designing by the radar computer.

With an AESA system, real time space-time adaptive processing (STAP) increases to the terra-flops range, and this does not include multi-beams data operations, as in under array partitioning, one array does volume search and another array perform boresight targeting. Different detection modes will produce different target data types. With volume search, target data will be minimal, such as general direction, but with a target that is under boresight for missile launch, the data stream for this singular target will require the highest allocation of memory and processing power. Subarray partitioning and choreography is important and there are no public information about this in either system. Not likely either company will release these information into the wild.

Russian technology seems to be persistently behind Western systems with lower mean-time-between-failures (MTBF), something like 10-15% lower, which mean Pakistan will have to stock a higher quantity of these units to maintain readiness across the fleet, which lead to the question of the JF-17's maintenance accessibility.

There are many unknowns that the public is not privy to, so it is mainly speculation that one is more suited than the other for Pakistan's needs. But it is non-disputable that the age of the AESA is here and anything less will put that air force into an immediate inferior posture in any air conflict.

 

[MilSpec]

There is every argument in favour of AESA radar if it is available. However in this world ‘Nothing is for nothing’.

Unlike the traditional concave dish, AESA radar consists of several antenna elements each with its own transmit/receive module & power amplifier. These elements dissipate lot of heat which must be taken out to ensure reliable operation. However normal air cooling is not enough and elaborate liquid cooling with pumps to drive the coolant through channels in the antenna is required.

Therefore retro fitting AESA radar is existing fighters such as F-16 or Thunder would be a costly & highly technical undertaking and don’t think likely to happen in the near future.

Dear sir,
Liquid cooling doesn't happen in such systems through a pump but through a compressor (scroll or screw type) and bphe/pfhe working in conjunction with a throttle valve or an electronic expansion valve.

 

[Basel]

Based upon sales brochures alone, the advertised capabilities between the two are comparable. But personally, I would pick the Vixen over the Zhuk based upon my own opinion of Russian technology.

The first consideration is antenna/array size the JF-17's radome is capable of containing. Not just size but also antenna/array shape. Both affect beam designing by the radar computer.

With an AESA system, real time space-time adaptive processing (STAP) increases to the terra-flops range, and this does not include multi-beams data operations, as in under array partitioning, one array does volume search and another array perform boresight targeting. Different detection modes will produce different target data types. With volume search, target data will be minimal, such as general direction, but with a target that is under boresight for missile launch, the data stream for this singular target will require the highest allocation of memory and processing power. Subarray partitioning and choreography is important and there are no public information about this in either system. Not likely either company will release these information into the wild.

Russian technology seems to be persistently behind Western systems with lower mean-time-between-failures (MTBF), something like 10-15% lower, which mean Pakistan will have to stock a higher quantity of these units to maintain readiness across the fleet, which lead to the question of the JF-17's maintenance accessibility.

There are many unknowns that the public is not privy to, so it is mainly speculation that one is more suited than the other for Pakistan's needs. But it is non-disputable that the age of the AESA is here and anything less will put that air force into an immediate inferior posture in any air conflict.

how much potent will JF-17 become after installation of any radar I had mentioned in my previous post? will Vixen (its coverage area as per site seem impressive) make JF-17 enough capable that it can face any threat posed by IAF below 5th gen fighter they have?? and how much capability Zuke AESA will give if PAF had to go with it due to some reason??

 

[niaz]

Dear sir,
Liquid cooling doesn't happen in such systems through a pump but through a compressor (scroll or screw type) and bphe/pfhe working in conjunction with a throttle valve or an electronic expansion valve.

In actual fact a compressor is also a kind of positive displacement pump. I have come across vacuum pumps that use mercury as a pumping material. Your point is however appreciated as I always like something new to add to my knowledge.

I must also admit that I don not know hell of a lot about AESA Radars. My post was based upon an article I read sometime ago which mentioned need for liquid cooling & pumps for AESA radar. Here is the link.

Active Electronically Steered Arrays - A Maturing Technology

 

[انگریز]

Modular antenna design was at an advanced level at EME in 2012.
Magnerton was also designed
Algorithm for AESA was not mentioned in the source i am quoting.

 

[Kompromat]

Modular antenna design was at an advanced level at EME in 2012.
Magnerton was also designed
Algorithm for AESA was not mentioned in the source i am quoting.

Where?

 

[انگریز]

Where?

Ieee explorer has many research articles about all sorts of radars written by Pakistani researchers. The articles are based on their actual research work.
But there is a thread with radar antenna pics on this forum somewhere.