Pakistan AESA Radar Hope

[Asian.Century]

PAF F16s and JF17s must have an AESA radar !!

Could it be this ?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Chinese option is best when its ready

 

[Quwa]

The PAF is working with China on an AESA radar for JF-17.

I also expect them to be looking at RACR or SABR for the F-16s.

 

[niaz]

There is every argument in favour of AESA radar if it is available. However in this world ‘Nothing is for nothing’.

Unlike the traditional concave dish, AESA radar consists of several antenna elements each with its own transmit/receive module & power amplifier. These elements dissipate lot of heat which must be taken out to ensure reliable operation. However normal air cooling is not enough and elaborate liquid cooling with pumps to drive the coolant through channels in the antenna is required.

Therefore retro fitting AESA radar is existing fighters such as F-16 or Thunder would be a costly & highly technical undertaking and don’t think likely to happen in the near future.

 

[Black Eagle 90]

PAF F16s and JF17s must have an AESA radar !!

Could it be this ?

Also PAF should get their remaining 14 F-16s from US along with 21 F-16s from Venezuela with upgrade kits from US.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

There is every argument in favour of AESA radar if it is available. However in this world ‘Nothing is for nothing’.

Unlike the traditional concave dish, AESA radar consists of several antenna elements each with its own transmit/receive module & power amplifier. These elements dissipate lot of heat which must be taken out to ensure reliable operation. However normal air cooling is not enough and elaborate liquid cooling with pumps to drive the coolant through channels in the antenna is required.

Therefore retro fitting AESA radar is existing fighters such as F-16 or Thunder would be a costly & highly technical undertaking and don’t think likely to happen in the near future.

Sir, with due respect
AESA for aircrafts the size of F16, Gripen etc have already been developed and operational as well. In AESA too there are categories i.e. number of Antenna Elements (TR).

1000 TR module (AN/APG-68 Agile Beam Radar fitted on F16E) / SAAB ES-05 Raven
1200 TR module AN/APG-77 (would be fitted on F-35)
1500 TR (AN/APG-63(V)2 on the F-15C , AN/APG-77 radar on the USAF's F-22A)

Whenever JF17 will get an AESA, it will be in category of 800 - 1000

 

[ziaulislam]

isnt an AESA already offered for f-16 by the manufacturer? i mean for updating older f-16

 

[niaz]

Sir, with due respect
AESA for aircrafts the size of F16, Gripen etc have already been developed and operational as well. In AESA too there are categories i.e. number of Antenna Elements (TR).

1000 TR module (AN/APG-68 Agile Beam Radar fitted on F16E) / SAAB ES-05 Raven
1200 TR module AN/APG-77 (would be fitted on F-35)
1500 TR (AN/APG-63(V)2 on the F-15C , AN/APG-77 radar on the USAF's F-22A)

Whenever JF17 will get an AESA, it will be in category of 800 - 1000

Hon Sir,

To the best of my knowledge AN/APG-80 AESA radar fitted to F-16 E Block 60 is not as of now offered for retrofitting older models of F-16. My comments were based on one of the news I came across which mentioned that USAF plans to upgrade 300 older mode block 40, 42, 50 & 52 F-16’s with AESA radar in 2018. That is 4 years from now thus it would be quite a while before it is offered to Pakistan.

JF-17 series -1 production started in 2009 and it took about 4 years for 50 aircrafts order to complete. There are no plans for AESA radar for JF-17 in block 2 series. AESA radar is not expected before series-3 batch if at all.

Kindly re-read my post. I have never said that AESA radar is not available for new models of F-16. “Retro fitted" meaning replacing the existing Pulse-Doppler APG - 66 and /or APG-68 radars with AESA. Nothing in your very informative post contradicts my statement: “Therefore retro fitting AESA radar is existing fighters such as F-16 or Thunder would be a costly & highly technical undertaking and don’t think likely to happen in the near future.”

 

[Munir]

mps to drive the coolant through channels in the antenna is required.

Therefore retro fitting AESA radar is existing fighters such as F-16 or Thunder would be a costly & highly technical undertaking and don’t think likely to happen in the near future.

I think you are not fully informed.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Hon Sir,

To the best of my knowledge AN/APG-80 AESA radar fitted to F-16 E Block 60 is not as of now offered for retrofitting older models of F-16. My comments were based on one of the news I came across which mentioned that USAF plans to upgrade 300 older mode block 40, 42, 50 & 52 F-16’s with AESA radar in 2018. That is 4 years from now thus it would be quite a while before it is offered to Pakistan.

JF-17 series -1 production started in 2009 and it took about 4 years for 50 aircrafts order to complete. There are no plans for AESA radar for JF-17 in block 2 series. AESA radar is not expected before series-3 batch if at all.

Kindly re-read my post. I have never said that AESA radar is not available for new models of F-16. “Retro fitted" meaning replacing the existing Pulse-Doppler APG - 66 and /or APG-68 radars with AESA. Nothing in your very informative post contradicts my statement: “Therefore retro fitting AESA radar is existing fighters such as F-16 or Thunder would be a costly & highly technical undertaking and don’t think likely to happen in the near future.”

Dear Sir,

No structural changes are need as such. Its just that the cost of AESA upgrade is too much. So even forces like USAF are upgrading to AESA progressively. For your review i am sharing you news regarding upgrade on F18 Super hornet.

FARNBOROUGH: US Navy's Super Hornet AESA radar retrofit enables legacy upgrade - 7/10/2012 - Flight Global

USAF is also looking for cheaper AESA solutions for some of its older planes like VIXEN-E AESA radar from Salex Galileo.

Yes high end AESA solutions with 1500 TRs can only be fitted in the likes of twin engine Fighters like Raptor or SU30. For the plane sizes like Jf17 or F16 as i mentioned before in my post ~1000 TR AESA is possible.
I also agree that AESA will only be available after 2016 right around with Block-III JF17, but even then (its purely my own assumption) only handful of Squadrons will be equipped with AESA. Chinese AESA as well as Italian solutions are both on cards for PAF.

One more point i would like to made that considering the main design theme of JF17,
i.e. a plane with flexible design so that as and when solutions are available can be incorporated into the machine.
So how can JF17 designers would have over-looked the possibility of integrating AESA in future?

 

[aliaselin]

There is every argument in favour of AESA radar if it is available. However in this world ‘Nothing is for nothing’.

Unlike the traditional concave dish, AESA radar consists of several antenna elements each with its own transmit/receive module & power amplifier. These elements dissipate lot of heat which must be taken out to ensure reliable operation. However normal air cooling is not enough and elaborate liquid cooling with pumps to drive the coolant through channels in the antenna is required.

Therefore retro fitting AESA radar is existing fighters such as F-16 or Thunder would be a costly & highly technical undertaking and don’t think likely to happen in the near future.

This may be why the refueling pipe of JF-17 block II is on the side but not in the nose - they should leave enough space for the liquid cooling equipment.

 

[Asian.Century]

The PAF is working with China on an AESA radar for JF-17.

I also expect them to be looking at RACR or SABR for the F-16s.

I donot expect Chinese AESA to be as good as the experienced and older AESAs like SAAB ES-05 Raven or RACR or SABR or especially the F16s AN/APG-68 Agile Beam Radar which now a must add on all our 76 F16s and JF17s.

 

[Dazzler]

klj-7 is compatible with aesa antenna from the start, so is v2. it improves search and track speed with minor improvements but does consume more power and adds no working mode. for a new aesa, we may have to wait blk 3. the antenna we saw in recent pics is e-scan antenna.

I donot expect Chinese AESA to be as good as the experienced and older AESAs like SAAB ES-05 Raven or RACR or SABR or especially the F16s AN/APG-68 Agile Beam Radar which now a must add on all our 76 F16s and JF17s.

apg-68 is not aesa, apg 80 is

 

[elitepilot09]

Can someone please clarify which radars are being used on our MLU F-16's? Some sources say that is an upgraded APG-66v2, while others say it is the much more capable APG-68v9. I'm well aware that the Blk50/52's are using the latter, but I'm uncertain of exactly how many of which radar sets were purchased for our MLU F-16's. Any knowledge with sources will be tremendously helpful!

As for the SABR or any other AESA radar on our F-16's, I think thats far-fetched. The US wouldn't sell anything like that to us anytime soon.

 

[aliyusuf]

Can someone please clarify which radars are being used on our MLU F-16's? Some sources say that is an upgraded APG-66v2, while others say it is the much more capable APG-68v9. I'm well aware that the Blk50/52's are using the latter, but I'm uncertain of exactly how many of which radar sets were purchased for our MLU F-16's. Any knowledge with sources will be tremendously helpful!

As for the SABR or any other AESA radar on our F-16's, I think thats far-fetched. The US wouldn't sell anything like that to us anytime soon.

APG-68v9