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Pakistan : A Greater Punjab Project ? پنجاب کی کہانی ایک پنجابی کی زبانی

Ok let me write down summary here:

The bloodshed during the partition of Punjab significantly changed the psychology of punjabians.They thought that they have been killed for their love with Pakistan.This killing only brought more love for Pakistan in their hearts (human nature you know) .But This love soon started crossing its limits to the extent that Punjabi identity was somewhat overshadowed with the Pakistani identity.

"Learn Urdu,Write Urdu and Speak Urdu" ideology came into play to enhance their Pakistani Identity.

This Pakistani identity created for them huge space in Army, Beurocracy and other state institutions.


But this Pakistaniat caused two huge problems:
1-Punjabion ne sirf Punjab ko hi Pakistan samjna lia

2-Other Ethnic groups started to think of Pakistan as just a Greater Punjab Project that should be stopped at any cost.
Letter written by Atta Ullah Mangal (A sardar of Balochistan) to Khan Abdul Wali Khan
" Wali ! Muj se azadi jaise muqadas naam ki qasam le lo
Jis ko "Pakistan" kaha ja raha hai wo "Greater Punjab" k siwa kuch b nahi "
The rest revolves around these too points

I my opinion:
For Pakistan to be a stable state, Punjabi identity needs to be revived again ofcourse balance must be kept b/w Punjabi nationalism and Pakistani Nationalism.
Otherwise aik din Pakistan sirf Punjab tak hi mehdood reh jae ga.
@Maula Jatt
(can you just do a urdu font headline-cut out English)
you are right to some extent but

minus Sindhis and muhajirs (if confrontations with em, then there must some genuine issues that you know you have to fix) other ethnicities will always have confrontations with our people whatever the hell you do, I realized it a long time ago (something which Indians use; they have joined in the attacks against Punjabi people on SM which is weird considering we were the least Muslim nationalists predominately Muslim ethnic groups of south Asia but I guess time changes)
so dont stress it and get angry as a young man, the country is important as Indians want Muslims of south Asia to be their slaves and play a mere second fiddle to em, dont buy into libtard BS urban elites are selling you, they are sellouts to their people, thats how they took control of B'desh (after our idiot military dictators gave Indians the open space to do so)

no Hindu, Sikh, parsi, jain would ever feel a semblance of kindness or love towards Muslims as a group of people (not individuals), I consider myself an agnostic but I feel even Jinnah was one and like me realized this whole game in south asia

now at the same time just like non-muslims have a deep distrust of muslims, Baloch and non-Peshawar valley Pashtun have this distrust indo-aryan co-countrymen at large who they label all as Punjabis

does army f-ups have a role to play in this just like everything else? - yeah but it's not the whole story, even a full-blown faujeet was going around shit-talking our people
so there's an issue here that you have to recognize- both Muslims and non-muslims can have an irrational beef with you
we'll have confrontations

now that this is clear,
- we have enough federalism at a constitutional level where you are almost running semi-independent countries on their own
- issue is democracy and rule of law, for this we have to lead the fight or it won't go anywhere, especially you the university students of Punjab have to lead this fight
 
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A lot of ethnic nationalists say Pakistani nationalism = Punjabi Muslim Nationalism

The caveat a lot of people aren't able to answer is how is Punjabi not promoted at any level by the government if it really is "Punjabi nationalism". Nor you don't see the Punjabi nationalist party, PMLN, ever advocate of taking East Punjab from India.

now at the same time just like non-muslims have a deep distrust of muslims, Baloch and non-Peshawar valley Pashtun have this distrust indo-aryan co-countrymen at large who they label all as Punjabis

Mind you the distrust is at a political level, not at a social level. If it was at a social level than we would see more clashes, but interestingly tho PTI rules big in Punjab and Pashhtunkhwa.

It was Ataullah Mengal (a Baloch Ethno-fascist and a staunch opponent of Pakistan and Pakistan ideology)

Personally I think he was a hero.

A lot of things he used to say back in the day turned out to be true, especially after the Vote of No Confidence.

"Learn Urdu,Write Urdu and Speak Urdu" ideology came into play to enhance their Pakistani Identity.

Urdu was taught by British during their rule. It is simply a continuation of British colonial policy.

But isn't this exactly the issue that plagues the country?
The state is split along ethnic faultlines. Tipping one way or another to reduce specific identities to subservience can cause a bigger problem. Uniting Pakistan under a Pakistani Identity rather than a Punjabi one is the way forward. The usage of a national language such as urdu is paramount however and must be retained, even if people say that it is a sign of Punjabi hegemony.

Ethnic fault lines get amplified during times of crisis.

Not to mention, the Army and Establishment benefits from these fault lines. Hence why PMLN was race baiting throughout the whole Zaman Park thing.

When you hear the story of underprivileged Balochistan from Baloch politicians, they often blame Punjab saying look at how progressive they are and look at us blah blah.

Their argument is based upon the notion that Balochistan's resources are being looted along with the state supporting brutal feudal lords in Balochistan and Sindh.

The latter is true, Zardari and his gang of feduals is seen as okay by the Army.
 
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ok, internal matters but a not about capturing the jlahandar and amritsar...

then, its ok
No one is capturing anything. The issue here is Punjab's division and desire among both sides for unification.
 
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No one is capturing anything. The issue here is Punjab's division and desire among both sides for unification.
They are the good looking people of subcontinents having very good balley-balley music, tasty food and best fighting skills after HARYANA.

only thing is, in INDIA.. we are not consuming the COWS meat.
 
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Sorry brother, I cannot read Urdu fluently so I cannt comment on this, from the rough things which I've gathered from this thread, it's related back to the ethnic debate around Pakistan.

What I will say is, a nation is defined by a group of people who share things in common; culture, language, religion, etc. The more dividing lines which exist, makes it incredibly easy to exploit. (See Bangladesh)

For the long-term survival of Pakistan, cultural homogenisation is a must, or it's just sitting there waiting to be exploited and you will have periodic Bangladesh scenarios.

Another thing is, the other ethnicities hate Punjabis, it's a hard pill to swallow but it's a reality. Only maybe somewhat Sindhis & Muhajirs to a lesser extent. But Balochs and Pashtuns despise you.

Which is why I say the biggest risk to Pakistan is not India, it's Afghanistan. India is an enemy but it's weapon is Afghanistan just like it was Bengali nationalists the last time.
 
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This, all of this is 100% true. I mean we left our ancestral homes, lost almost everything, lost family (my great grandmother for instance was martyred by Sikhs in Jallandhar while reciting the Quran. My dada kept that blood splattered Quran with him all his life.).
Us Punjabis especially the highly educated east Punjabis migrants from Jallandhar, Amritsar etc subsumed ourselves into this new state called Pakistan only to be blamed by others for their own failings. Not only this, the different dialects of Punjabi were subverted & began to be touted as new languages instigated by other ethnicities, eg Siraiki where the Siraiki language movement started in the 1970s & was started by a Sindhi (do some research before mouthing off please). Same for pahari & pothowari accents so much so that recently that such hacks have also started to call central Punjab's Jangli accents a seperate language from Punjabi.
What is needed now is for us to divorce our Pakistani identity from our Punjabi identity. This is for the good of both the country & the ethnicity.

Mirzali KHAN laughed at the martyrdom of your grandmother and the struggles your ancestors faced in the new country. Mirz Ali Khan mocks you for choosing Pakistan.
 
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Mirzali KHAN laughed at the martyrdom of your grandmother and the struggles your ancestors faced in the new country. Mirz Ali Khan mocks you for choosing Pakistan.
@Mirzali Khan Stop being a ch-iya for once, it's annoying and I can only hope that you don't pull that crap in real life or one day you might end up getting smacked by someone

That gets disproven when the center is withholding funds from KPK.
already answered you in another thread
 
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Have you tried visiting other provinces and asking other ethnic groups what they think of Punjabis or Pakistan? This isn't just Baloch or Pashtuns. You'll find hatred in Gilgit Baltistan, AJK, and even Sindh. Ask Bengalis in Bangladesh who they blame for the fall of East Pakistan?

This happening not because of ordinary Punjabis living ordinary lives. This is happening because the army establishment has been overwhelmingly Punjabi and so has the ruling power structure. Figure heads from different ethnic groups won't solve the problem and is seen only as a band-aid.

This is also happening because KPK, Balochistan are far less developed than Punjab due to most of power structure being from Punjab and consuming more of the resources since votes from other provinces didn't matter. PMLN has used the center, which is usually guaranteed because Punjab, to fund projects that benefit Central Punjab at the expense of the country. Just to give you one example, Orange Metro line, costing billions of dollars, was built to benefit Lahore instead of building ML-1 rail which would have benefitted the entire country.

Remember how CPEC originally was supposed to run through western Pakistan to Gwadar, was changed by PMLN to run through Punjab instead? PTI focused on ML-1, uplifting Balochistan, ex-FATA, interior Sindh so the disparity in western half of the country can be resolved, along with militancy and separatism. In contrast, people here can remember Shehbaz Sharif literally asked TTP to spare Punjab, as if the rest of the country was fair game for TTP.

Just recently Imran Khan admitted in his speech that one of the reasons he dissolved the provincial assemblies was because the center was withholding funds to KPK, especially FATA reconstruction. Nawaz Sharif was delaying or trying to stop FATA merger with KPK until Bajwa forced it.

If you want this hatred to stop, then try uplifting the other parts of the country and building much more inclusive government where every ethnicity has a share. Ironically, Zardari passing the 18th amendment was beneficial since it gave the provinces the ability to uplift themselves. Had something like this existed before 1971, we could avoid Bangladesh like issues.

I think one solution is to create South Punjab. Never again can winning one province mean that you won all of Pakistan. Before attacking me, think carefully about what I'm saying. Were it not for PTI bring more Pashtun representation in government, KPK would have broken away by now.
 
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But isn't this exactly the issue that plagues the country?
The state is split along ethnic faultlines. Tipping one way or another to reduce specific identities to subservience can cause a bigger problem. Uniting Pakistan under a Pakistani Identity rather than a Punjabi one is the way forward. The usage of a national language such as urdu is paramount however and must be retained, even if people say that it is a sign of Punjabi hegemony.
Solution is strong local langauges. Punjab should teach Punjabi in school as well.

Hence no one will say Urdu is Punjab langauge because it's not.
 
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An interesting thing I read recently was that as long as the Ottoman empire existed, which was hundreds of years, the Turkish people had no sense of Turkish identity. They thought of themselves as Ottomans. They had dozens of non-Turkish territories as part of their empire, in Europe and the Middle East and they needed to remain neutral.

Once the Ottomans were nearing their end the British started promoting nationalism among the subjects of the Ottoman Empire. That’s when Arab nationalism was born and the Arabs fought to become free from Turkish rule. All the other nationalities broke off as well.

It was after the loss of the empire that Turkish nationalism began, under Ataturk.

The Arabs in turn broke into 26 countries. Arab nationalism didn’t help in keeping them united. National is a jinn that, once it gets out, is hard to control.

Descendants of the Mughal empire, say those who lived in Delhi and surrounding areas, also have no sense of any particular ethnicity. People who are in Karachi from UP have no specific ethnicity, and their ethnicity doesn’t even have a name, which is why they’re called ‘muhajir’ or ‘Urdu speakers.’ That’s in contrast to Gujratis, Biharis, Bangalis etc.

To keep Pakistan intact it is imperative for Punjab to stay away from ethnic politics, otherwise divisions will get worse.

The important thing is to educate the population and bring about economic development. Education brings about uniformity and prosperity and keeps people happy and contented.
 
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Have you tried visiting other provinces and asking other ethnic groups what they think of Punjabis or Pakistan? This isn't just Baloch or Pashtuns. You'll find hatred in Gilgit Baltistan, AJK, and even Sindh. Ask Bengalis in Bangladesh who they blame for the fall of East Pakistan?
And??? Literally zero f's given dude
This happening not because of ordinary Punjabis living ordinary lives. This is happening because the army establishment has been overwhelmingly Punjabi and so has the ruling power structure.
A- not our fault that establishment is from us
B- even if you remove establishment and we'd be back with political power as it's democracy, make a new country we'll be back through economic, millitary and water means as the bigger power of the region
This Indus region simply cannot ignore Punjab as a single unit, it's basic frickin common sense on how countries, region, geographies work

It's like asking why coastal cities are important in US or how northern regions play a role in India or how Persians play a role in Iranic world

Deal with it by hating on it or not hating on it, but it'll be that way in one form or another in the future too
@Taimur Khurram

Figure heads from different ethnic groups won't solve the problem and is seen only as a band-aid.
Nothing!!! would solve your issues mate

18th amendment and stuff like that are step in the right direction but to say you can be equal to Punjab (as a political, economic, human resource force etc) in our region is false, so at some level it'll always be there

This is also happening because KPK, Balochistan are far less developed than Punjab due to most of power structure being from Punjab and consuming more of the resources since votes from other provinces didn't matter. PMLN has used the center, which is usually guaranteed because Punjab, to fund projects that benefit Central Punjab at the expense of the country. Just to give you one example, Orange Metro line, costing billions of dollars, was built to benefit Lahore instead of building ML-1 rail which would have benefitted the entire country.

Remember how CPEC originally was supposed to run through western Pakistan to Gwadar, was changed by PMLN to run through Punjab
Western Pakistan where no one lives??? Outside of Peshawar valley, Pakistan is not populated on our western side (Pakistan is mostly Eastern Punjab, peshwar valley, Indus river and Karachi)


you wanted to run major infrastructure projects where barely anyone would use em and than pay back those loans through the money generated from populated areas

sounds like a dumb idea to me, I hate noonies but goddamn it they were right


instead? PTI focused on ML-1
Ml-1 that literally passes through Eastern Pakistan up til peshwar valley
Contradicted your own point here
, uplifting Balochistan,
How?- to some extent yes army is a major cause of Balochistans f-ups

But PTI (another punjabi party btw, headed by Punjabi pathan whose cabinet was mostly Punjabis so you know just to keep that in perspective that it'll always be there no matter if y'all like it or not) is not responsible for Balochistan foremost responsibility is BAP (made by army)

PMLn blocked the funds for ex fata - not one party from KPK in general stepped up

Hell PTM members from waziristan are still part of this coalition government, if they made a decision that enough is enough this government falls

Where's the sense of self reflection and responsibility?
- PMLn messing up= punjabi thing, PTI doing good not a punjabi thing

Jui-F, anp, PTM gets elected from KP, PMLn cuts down ex fata budget and they don't have the balls to stand up proceeds to blame Punjabis 🤦
, interior Sindh so the disparity in western half of the country can be resolved, along with militancy and separatism. In contrast, people here can remember

Shehbaz Sharif literally asked TTP to spare Punjab, as if the rest of the country was fair game for TTP.
Yes and in return PTM, BAP, Jui-F, ANP are literally Sir-geeing Showbaaz

If they don't this government falls

Self - f-ing - responsibility to keep your elected officials in check

MQM same thing they're selling Karachi vote to PPP, curse Sindhis for electing PPP all you want but charity starts at home

Your responsibility don't blame Punjabis for showbaaz when all politicians have gathered to support his -ship

He goes when they leave

Is it the
Just recently Imran Khan admitted in his speech that one of the reasons he dissolved the provincial assemblies was because the center was withholding funds to KPK, especially FATA reconstruction. Nawaz Sharif was delaying or trying to stop FATA merger with KPK until Bajwa forced it.
And how about Jui-F, anp, PTM gather some self respect and stop supporting showbaaz

But I guess bitching about Punjabis is easier than putting in work
If you want this hatred to stop, then try uplifting the other parts of the country and building much more inclusive government where every ethnicity has a share.
Well this current government is where parties from all of Pakistan have gathered to support showbaaz

This is a very inclusive government in that sense - but we're still moaning aren't we?v

Can't solve your constant victim hood seaking African American mentality can we?
Ironically, Zardari passing the 18th amendment was beneficial since it gave the provinces the ability to uplift themselves. Had something like this existed before 1971, we could avoid Bangladesh like issues.

I think one solution is to create South Punjab. Never again can winning one province mean that you won all of Pakistan.
Even South Punjab many a time voted PMLn for some reason

Hazara voted PMLn historically despite being a part of different province - so IDK what y'all trying to achieve

I support it as it'll be easier to manage that way but lol at political reasons

You can sure try though but don't start your moaning when it doesn't work

Before attacking me, think carefully about what I'm saying. Were it not for PTI bring more Pashtun representation in government, KPK would have broken away by now.
LoL- PTI was mostly a Punjabi party which happened to be better at governance if you really want to play ethnic shit

Bhai hypothetically ho jayo broken phir bhi Punjab will play an important role in this region, it's just the reality of it all mate, phir bhi wohi Rona dhona Rahe gaa aur phir bhi mirzali Khan types seethe Karen ge hamari grandma's ke katal hone par has ke :coffee:
 
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Ground reality is completely opposite. Before even thinking about it, we Pakistanis should develop skills to live with minorities.
 
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An interesting thing I read recently was that as long as the Ottoman empire existed, which was hundreds of years, the Turkish people had no sense of Turkish identity. They thought of themselves as Ottomans. They had dozens of non-Turkish territories as part of their empire, in Europe and the Middle East and they needed to remain neutral.

Once the Ottomans were nearing their end the British started promoting nationalism among the subjects of the Ottoman Empire. That’s when Arab nationalism was born and the Arabs fought to become free from Turkish rule. All the other nationalities broke off as well.

It was after the loss of the empire that Turkish nationalism began, under Ataturk.

The Arabs in turn broke into 26 countries. Arab nationalism didn’t help in keeping them united. National is a jinn that, once it gets out, is hard to control.

Descendants of the Mughal empire, say those who lived in Delhi and surrounding areas, also have no sense of any particular ethnicity. People who are in Karachi from UP have no specific ethnicity, and their ethnicity doesn’t even have a name, which is why they’re called ‘muhajir’ or ‘Urdu speakers.’ That’s in contrast to Gujratis, Biharis, Bangalis etc.

To keep Pakistan intact it is imperative for Punjab to stay away from ethnic politics, otherwise divisions will get worse.

The important thing is to educate the population and bring about economic development. Education brings about uniformity and prosperity and keeps people happy and contented.

Instead, to each their own!
Language, clan, ancestral abodes.
The covenant should Instead be to accept mutual peace.
Accept the basics... rule your own, govern yourself. Partake in regional and national cause as a call to duty... defend with a call to arms.
It leaves out distortions, powerplay, narrative building or shaping operations... it allows each clan or people to only claim, live and govern local... their lives... and not seek to superimpose, make claims or go on revisionist tirades.

This alone calms and settles the nerves and people build on established instead of chasing mirages!
When people/clans/nations are empowered they return the favor and empower the covenant/convention/constitution.
Automatically removing a minority or oppressed and/or oppressor tag from specific group(s).
This is what the original model is... that is how it was built. The original state and constitution.
This is how to take power away from shysters, pretenders, priests, politicians... the circus itself!
 
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