Pakistan, a British problem, but a German solution?

[Genesis]

Being on a Pakistan forum I thought to at least do some stuff on Pakistan.

I have seen few documentaries on India Pakistan's partition and the hatred and mistrust that brewed from it. In everyone this is a problem caused by the British.

India, Pakistan has been fighting ever since, with more wars between the two than any two countries since the divide, save maybe some African countries, I think it is safe to say that the last war won't be the last.


But today's Pakistan faces a different problem, the Indian population has exploded, it's land is bigger and did manage to improve the country's economy, they were compared to China and billed to surpass us for a while, however short that lasted, is still an accomplishment.

Indian military spending reflects this. while still low and it's military vastly underfunded for certain areas, like basic artillery, fighter jets, individual soldier equipments, sufficient transport force including helicopters, and heavy lift planes, is still about 8,9 times more than Pakistan while only about twice as big a force.

In order for Pakistan to maintain a balance of power to this British problem, needs an answer....


A German one.

What do I mean by that, the dilemma between Prussia and Austria. Prussia Austria dominated Germany, with Austria having the bigger slice, being the Holy Roman empire that then became the Austria empire. Nominally it is the head of the German through various organizations, that the Emperor was president.

Prussian statesman Otto Von Bismark wanted Prussian dominance. To achieve this he envisioned a Germany without Austria, a united German state, that included non Austria states, and some territory from France. With victory after victory, Bismark manage to create the German Empire, with Prussia dictating the terms.

Starting as a smaller power, it manages to be in a commanding position, by the time of the German empire, Prussia was one of the leading power in Europe and the World. It also made sure Austria would never again challenge the might of the German nation, though Austria itself can be said to also be German.



Today Pakistan cannot take on India in its current form, that's just a fact. Even if it can hold off an invasion, it will only be on the defensive and will have to play by the pace of India. It cannot achieve its own objective, advance its own national interests, but there is a huge advantage Pakistan has, religion.

Today the Middle east, Bangladesh, and parts of Africa is mostly Muslim, while some of ASEAN like Indonesia, Malaysia.

This could be the German Empire for Pakistan. A union of sorts with Pakistan as the leader, this could potentially lead to the emergence of a Muslim super power, or at least great power. Some might think this ridicules, but there was no less objections to the German empire and certainly no less difference, if anything, the German empire was build with some lands that are not even German.

So how could this be done.

1) Massive industrialization of Pakistan, this is obvious, a strong economy is the bases of a strong nation. Pakistan's close to 200 million people can be a huge economy quickly if it gets its act together

2) Massive build up of the arms industry and investments in related industries. This will obviously need to take effect after the industrialization, but the good news is that Pakistan already has experience in some The JF-17, the French subs, F-22p, it's own tank and a bunch of other things.

3) Victory, Pakistan must incorporate some Islamic nations into its sphere of influence in the middle east, this can either be done militarily or through economy, but Pakistan must be the head of a few organizations that would give it the final say in any decision in terms of foreign affairs, defense, and an important say in head of state, and certain policies that may affect the union.

4) If Pakistan manages all three, which is a big step, but if it can be done, Pakistan and the Islamic union could potentially take on India, to take all the land it lost or thought was Pakistan's back. But that's not the main objective, the objective show show South Asia, Pakistan is the way to go and the premier power and thus uniting South Asia under Pakistan and excluding India.

This would make a effective great power, if not super power status. Sounds far fetched, but so did the German empire. But as we all know that happened.

Please don't bring what finally happened to the German empire into this mix, that's for completely different reasons and has no reflection on the effectiveness of the unification, and the achieving of great power status for Germany.

Much like Bismark's thought process, a unified entity, with a degree of autonomy, but with Prussia at the head, while excluding Austria.

If all this can be achieved, what's next can be any number of things.

 

[SouthDesi]

You have built a nice story to dream, it will ever happen. Even if it happens, imagine all muslim countries you listed above forms an Union, next thing they will do is attack Iran, convert neighboring non-muslim countries to Muslim states including India,China, Burma etc. Then WW3 will start b/n muslim and non-muslim countries.

 

[That Guy]

You have built a nice story to dream, it will ever happen. Even if it happens, imagine all muslim countries you listed above forms an Union, next thing they will do is attack Iran, convert neighboring non-muslim countries to Muslim states including India,China, Burma etc. Then WW3 will start b/n muslim and non-muslim countries.

While I think this is a pipe dream, you're mistaken if you believe that a united Islamic empire would attack neighboring nations and covert them to Islamic nations.

This isn't the middle ages, times have changed from the days of crusades and Caliphates. Even if what OP suggests does happen, considering a war with a nation like India and China would very well end the world, I think it's foolish to even suggest such a thing, even in this hypothetical situation.

--

However, having said what I have, I do think that union between certain Islamic nations is inevitable. The GCC will ultimately unite under a single flag, especially since they're growing militarily and economically in the world. A similar situation may occur between Afghanistan and Pakistan, though this is unlikely.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Pakistan has the 6th largest population in the world (and set to increase further), if Pakistan became an industrialized country it would be one of the most powerful countries on Earth.

China is still in the developing phase as well, when we become a developed country that will be an incredible day indeed.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I agree with your Assessment and the key to this scenario would have to be the Economic Development of Pakistan. A strong Economy with GDP per capita of $12,500 will attract other neighbouring Muslim countries to join forces with Pakistan.

 

[Rang De]

Very nice writeup. I think the "advantage" that Pakistan has should also be taken up by China, as it will help them fight against the USA in the superpower fightoff. Islam should state religion of China, and people of China should follow religion of Islam, it will give them a massive advantage against western powers, as the whole Muslim world will be on their side.

As for India-Pak, I would say Best of luck to Pakistan.

But India stands on its two feet, and will continue to do so.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I agree with your Assessment and the key to this scenario would have to be the Economic Development of Pakistan. A strong Economy with GDP per capita of $12,500 will attract other neighbouring Muslim countries to join forces with Pakistan.

The Muslim world has a population of about 1.5 billion.

They need to be fully industrialized and developed. Imagine the economic and military output of 1.5 billion industrialized people in one unified body, nothing like that has ever been seen before in world history. Not to mention the fact that they also control all the most resource-rich regions on the planet as well.

When China becomes fully industrialized/developed, we will be able to output a lot but we will be constrained by resources. Until we can build up enough renewable energy to become self-sufficient, or we are able to tap into our shale oil and gas reserves (both of which are amongst the largest shale reserves on the planet).

 

[scorpionx]

European model of a modern nation state, I am afraid won't work here as you have envisaged. I doubt if religion and Industrial,social progress will go hand in hand at this present moment. Both the countries are struggling with massive internal conflicts.If more importance were given on proper education,rural development and health care, I don't think we needed to maintain such a huge battle forces neither Pakistan needed to feel the urge to unite with other Muslim nations to counter the "Paper Tiger".

 

[jarves]

Highly unlikey because Muslim nations are divided in themselves.Turks wants to associate themselves with Europe.Iran and Saudi Arabia are fighting with each other.Syria is totally messed up and so is Egypt and recently we all saw what happened to Qatar.Vietnam,Indonesia and Malaysia are more closer to India,BD is sorrounded by India from three sides.

 

[KingMamba]

@Genesis I agree and have been thinking of this myself, most likely is Afghanistan they do not accept borders anyway and most locals are dependent on cross border trade.

 

[Hassan_Ishtiaq]

I agree with your Assessment and the key to this scenario would have to be the Economic Development of Pakistan. A strong Economy with GDP per capita of $12,500 will attract other neighbouring Muslim countries to join forces with Pakistan.

There can NEVER be economic progress in Pakistan as long as there remains rampant corruption from the common man all the way to the gov.t leaders.

I don't see the corruption decreasing let alone ending any time soon. Not even after a thousand years. Pakistani society is corrupt to the core.

 

[KingMamba]

You have built a nice story to dream, it will ever happen. Even if it happens, imagine all muslim countries you listed above forms an Union, next thing they will do is attack Iran, convert neighboring non-muslim countries to Muslim states including India,China, Burma etc. Then WW3 will start b/n muslim and non-muslim countries.

LOL and you call his story a dream.

 

[jarves]

A very nice thread converted into a troll thread.

 

[Genesis]

Hmm, I thought people would research Germany problem, but guess not. So here's my fuller take in you will.

Prussia at the time didn't have many allies in the German areas. Austria was the undisputed king of the area, they were the official emperor a few decades ago and still the president of the German federation, or something, a German union of sorts, very weak of course, more in name that in actuality. German is the land of a thousand princes after all.


1) Diplomacy

Today Pakistan has some good relationships with middle eastern and African Muslim states, but by no means great. As to info and Malaysia, they can be more allies than in the same organization, it depends on what the situation is then.

The structure Pakistan should look to is the existent of said Muslim countries, like SA, Iraq, Afgan, Egypt and so on, but with a combined army, more centralized than NATO, but not yet one that is like one nation.

With a parliament system that Pakistan has strong influence, and decisive decision making process in ONLY SOMETHINGS like Foreign relations, economy, and such that would impact the strength and direction of a union. The culture or living style and such as well as law can be left to their own devices.

Pakistan cannot get the union with economy, that's not possible, no nation looks at a better one and say let me join, war is needed, a decisive, but a limited war. Bismark is all about not going too far, he didn't take Vienna of Austria he wanted them as his ally. Pakistan must win, but can't take any land.

Lastly this Napoleon quote that Pakistan must remember, and why this is such a risk. Pakistan cannot have a hiccup, even once, during this.

"Among the anciently established sovereigns, war aims never go beyond possession of a province or a fortress. With me, the stake is always my existence and that of the whole Empire."

and this

"My power depends on my glory," Bonaparte said, "and my glory on my victories."




2) Economy

Now let's take a look on what Pakistan must do, corruption is ok as long as it doesn't stand in the way. Right now it sort of does, but it doesn't have to. Pakistan must take advantage of China's reorganization of the economy and become industrialized, not only for taking some factories, but also shipping goods into China for the the demand.

Invest in infrastructure, education and research. This must be key for the creation of wealth and new systems.




3) Militarily, Pakistan must increase budget as the country grows, and invest in key parts, like a strong air force, a capable and highly mobile army, and a anti access navy.

This is achievable for Pakistan by investing in 4th to 4+ fighters to be made at home, helicopters either from America or from China, transport planes for the army, and a proven future soldier program to increase the survivability and offensive capability of said soldier. Offensive attack helicopters, is also key. But the key thing is mobile, to be able to strike and get out, to strike where least expected and to have the maxium amount of troops in one area to counter the Indian numerical advantage.

Like Von Meltke's thinking, rails, and roads, except now it's planes and helicopters, don't need to have the most overall, but I will always have the most in one battlefield. Example, If India uses 300,000 and Pakistan 150,000, just make sure to have the most man on one battle field, 300,000 men would be spread out, so where India has 20,000 of the 300, attack there wtih 40,000, then get out and attack another vulnerable spot when India reinforces. Play by your own pace.

Naval arm is a little hard as that's very costly, but Pakistan can have denial of access strategy, anti ship, sea mines, and a DF-21D equivalent, as well as submarines and anti air destroyers and anti sub frigates.

So key to this strategy, take Indian navy out of the fight, be mobile attack weak spots in the Indian line, air force be strong enough to take Indian force 1:1, this is the way to victory. Why air battle 1:1? Even major nations have trouble mantaining a large fleet, as long as Pakistan more or less achieve indignation of the air force fighters, it's a lot easier to achieve parity here. JF-17 very good start.



@SouthDesi @That Guy @Chinese-Dragon @KingMamba @jarves @scorpionx

 

[Rang De]

I replied to ayush not to troll we always mess around but I will delete my other offensive post.

No, let it be brah. My reply was also light heated, not serious.