Pak to start production of high tech Al-Khalid 2 tank

[denel]

We have had failures in ....Steeles mills , Tools factory almost PIA private sector and courts

The business man is not interested to make something for group who then buy from foreign party, the product made by businessman needs to have quality for local and foreign buyers


Current system works POF works , HIT works , KAMRA works 100%
The standard and quality at these institutes is World Class

Private Sector will have to match it with private investment before any deal goes their way

That is why you need to have export market.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Unless Private party will bring in 300-400 million investment , no product can be built that is international standard Pakistani Business Tycoons don't have interest in that area

 

[The Terminator]

We have had failures in ....Steeles mills , Tools factory almost PIA private sector and courts

The business man is not interested to make something for group who then buy from foreign party, the product made by businessman needs to have quality for local and foreign buyers


Current system works POF works , HIT works , KAMRA works 100%
The standard and quality at these institutes is World Class

Private Sector will have to match it with private investment before any deal goes their way

Are you serious? Really! Which world class products HIT had ever been able to churn out of its Government funded factories apart from a few foreign licensed products like American M113s or Chinese origin modified MBT-2000 known as AL Khalid tank. Our Government and ISPR too kept on crying out loud that we have lost thousands of our security personnels lives in war on terror. I never suggested any solution like privatizing a national asset but still everyone should notice there is a much bigger underlying issue which has plagued our defense industries like HIT.

IMHO the head of HIT and Army procurement during the past 2 decades should be prosecuted for their criminal negligence that resulted in hundreds and thousands of lives of our soldiers while mostly riding through most probably the only land route possible inside the most dangerous, remote and hostile mountainous areas in world on some Toyota pickup trucks and cold War Era military trucks which can't even protect against a 9mm round and got repeatedly blasted by roadside bombs IEDs and planned ambushes by TTP. Army got a few hundreds of MRAPs from around the world from dozen of suppliers. That's it. And the beloved HIT couldn't come up with a single MRAP vehicle which could be standardized in all the three services with various Mods and version of a single platform. Even miniscule amount of private contractors came up with their prototype models to display but those in HIT kept on churning out those old school APCs and tanks that didn't have much role in mountainous or urban warfare. And you are lecturing us that HIT and others are performing 100%!

I personally know a few of Army persons who lost their limbs, their eyes, even the face. Got permanently disabled. Yes the army took care of them well. They were treated well in CMH. They got quite a few pieces of lands and millions in cash for indemnity but no money can bring them their senses, their lives back. Our brave soldiers are armed with 70 years old designed rifles mostly with rudimentary iron sights, no scopes, night vision, thermal sights, credible body armor, all those ameneties are confined with in a small group of special operatives. Normal soldier gets a 70 years old rifle, a body armor which he doesn't know if it would work on the field or not, a helmet and basic kit thats it and you wish to send him to into the most defended, heavily mined rat holes of TTP.

If you ask any sane person would you accept cash and pieces of lands worth millions after martyrdom/disabled for life or a proper gear to fight and protect yourself from getting killed or injured in the first place. I hope the answer would be the proper equipment to fight effectively. Come on our armed forces primary duty is to defend and fight, it's not a propery dealership or a Business entity whose crew might be considered expendible by the ones who are in charge

And as far as POF is concerned, I think it's primary role was to develop and manufacture small arms for our armed forces. I got an idea! Make a conglomerate of a few of Darra Adam Khel Gunsmiths with proper backing of Government findings and the global reach of Pakistan's military and i bet they would come up with more than a dozen modern rifle designs in less than a year. But POF is still faithfully stuck on producing G3 rifles for half a century.

It's all due to that very mindset that, you mentioned with extreme prejudice that hey don't you dare to criticize my sacred cows they are the best the world can offer, we a nation of more than 200 million people possessing almost all the natural resources needed in our lands, known for export of human resources such as laborers/engineers, nuclear capable world renowned armed forces can't even develop or produce a single hydrocarbon engine or a transmission or even a contemporary PC? Isn't that stunning? That is in a bad way

 

[PakFactor]

Are you serious? Really! Which world class products HIT had ever been able to churn out of its Government funded factories apart from a few foreign licensed products like American M113s or Chinese origin modified MBT-2000 known as AL Khalid tank. Our Government and ISPR too kept on crying out loud that we have lost thousands of our security personnels lives in war on terror. I never suggested any solution like privatizing a national asset but still everyone should notice there is a much bigger underlying issue which has plagued our defense industries like HIT.

IMHO the head of HIT and Army procurement during the past 2 decades should be prosecuted for their criminal negligence that resulted in hundreds and thousands of lives of our soldiers while mostly riding through most probably the only land route possible inside the most dangerous, remote and hostile mountainous areas in world on some Toyota pickup trucks and cold War Era military trucks which can't even protect against a 9mm round and got repeatedly blasted by roadside bombs IEDs and planned ambushes by TTP. Army got a few hundreds of MRAPs from around the world from dozen of suppliers. That's it. And the beloved HIT couldn't come up with a single MRAP vehicle which could be standardized in all the three services with various Mods and version of a single platform. Even miniscule amount of private contractors came up with their prototype models to display but those in HIT kept on churning out those old school APCs and tanks that didn't have much role in mountainous or urban warfare. And you are lecturing us that HIT and others are performing 100%!

I personally know a few of Army persons who lost their limbs, their eyes, even the face. Got permanently disabled. Yes the army took care of them well. They were treated well in CMH. They got quite a few pieces of lands and millions in cash for indemnity but no money can bring them their senses, their lives back. Our brave soldiers are armed with 70 years old designed rifles mostly with rudimentary iron sights, no scopes, night vision, thermal sights, credible body armor, all those ameneties are confined with in a small group of special operatives. Normal soldier gets a 70 years old rifle, a body armor which he doesn't know if it would work on the field or not, a helmet and basic kit thats it and you wish to send him to into the most defended, heavily mined rat holes of TTP.

If you ask any sane person would you accept cash and pieces of lands worth millions after martyrdom/disabled for life or a proper gear to fight and protect yourself from getting killed or injured in the first place. I hope the answer would be the proper equipment to fight effectively. Come on our armed forces primary duty is to defend and fight, it's not a propery dealership or a Business entity whose crew might be considered expendible by the ones who are in charge

And as far as POF is concerned, I think it's primary role was to develop and manufacture small arms for our armed forces. I got an idea! Make a conglomerate of a few of Darra Adam Khel Gunsmiths with proper backing of Government findings and the global reach of Pakistan's military and i bet they would come up with more than a dozen modern rifle designs in less than a year. But POF is still faithfully stuck on producing G3 rifles for half a century.

It's all due to that very mindset that, you mentioned with extreme prejudice that hey don't you dare to criticize my sacred cows they are the best the world can offer, we a nation of more than 200 million people possessing almost all the natural resources needed in our lands, known for export of human resources such as laborers/engineers, nuclear capable world renowned armed forces can't even develop or produce a single hydrocarbon engine or a transmission or even a contemporary PC? Isn't that stunning? That is in a bad way

What you said it a bitter pill to swallow and on the dot what you mentioned. I love the military but they’ve been completely negligent in getting our boys the proper gear and arms. Even after the FATA engagements situation hasn’t improved.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

As I said before

If Private Sector Invest their own money 400 Million to 500 Million , and build Products marketed towards

a) Pakistan Army
b) International Customers

Only then a success is possible , there are no guaranteed contracts for Pakistan Army
in case they don't pick your product , you better have a product that some other international customer will buy

If such a mind set does not exists , due to lack of funds our existing solution is practical

Defence Sector is high , stake business people rather invest the money in a shopping mall where money comes in daily

 

[The Terminator]

As I said before

If Private Sector Invest their own money 400 Million to 500 Million , and build Products marketed towards

a) Pakistan Army
b) International Customers

Only then a success is possible , there are no guaranteed contracts for Pakistan Army
in case they don't pick your product , you better have a product that some other international customer will buy

If such a mind set does not exists , due to lack of funds our existing solution is practical

Defence Sector is high , stake business people rather invest the money in a shopping mall where money comes in daily

I never once said anywhere that privatization of Government owned defense industries is the only solution. There is always a room for reorganization or reforms for an institution which isn't working at par or as expected it to work.

As far as private defense contractors are concerned there are already a few present in the market. But as all we know there is almost non existant scope for sales in the local market as Army for decades not seems to be in the mood of equipment procurement. Yes I agree there are lots of fat Businessmen in Pakistan who really are blackmailing and milking our country to the best of their capabilities and we all know that they have also vested interests with our political and non political elite which makes them the biggest status quo mafia in Pakistan.

Hypothetically even if a private defense firm comes up with millions or billions of $$$, produce best products to compete globally as well, even then they are bound to fail and go bankrupt here in our country. Simple reason is there is no Ecosystem present here for any of the private defense manufacturers in our country. Yes they would have to first invest huge amounts which in itself seems not feasible but the Government too has to go out of their usual ways to sustain and keep them afloat by investing in their on going R&D projects, purchasing their product to maximum possibilities, use the State's military/diplomatic influence to pressurize the friendly nations to buy from our suppliers, or even waging a war against someone to keep those industries running at optimum pace. It's always been a 2 way transaction. On the other hand, despite having a huge defense/military cooperation leverage upon deep pocketed Gulf countries, Pakistan never succeeded to sell them any big ticket military equipment which is being developed, manufactured and utilized by our armed forces.
Contrary to that Government keeps on pushing centuries old traditional small scale weapons manufacturers in Darra to shutdown their businesses under US pressure.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

There is minimum interest in Private Sector for Defense applications

No such thing has handouts or subsidy

Companies who go into Defense , they first sell consumer goods like Cars , Auto and Motorcycles , when they dominate 40-60% of local market over decades they eventually make defense products

 

[Incog_nito]

Is it the upgraded version of AK-1s? I wish it would be something better like VT-4/MBT-2000s from China.

Besides AK-2, PA should work on acquiring T-80s which Ukraine already has and they can be bought easily and Russian too have those and I'm sure if PA tries then it can come to Pakistan easily.

 

[The Terminator]

There is minimum interest in Private Sector for Defense applications

No such thing has handouts or subsidy

Companies who go into Defense , they first sell consumer goods like Cars , Auto and Motorcycles , when they dominate 40-60% of local market over decades they eventually make defense products

Warning
this post is going to be slightly off topic so kindly bear with me.

Bingo you got to the right point now. There is not a single well established indegenous auto manufacturer in Pakistan. The whole nation is held hostage to some Japanese and now Korean local assemblers which cunningly assemble sub par or already outdated models and sell at exorbitant prices coupled with heavy taxation to us. They don't give a damn s**** about our country's industrial growth/economics let alone caring about the defense needs of Pakistan. They don't belong here just like most of our elite and Government official's families. That's why a nuclear capable country, rich with mineral resources and manpower couldn't even make a simple automotive engine, transmission or suspension of its own. We can just weld a box of steel and install the electromechanical subsystems which are imported from China, Japan, France, Turkey, Italy, US (and the list goes on) into those welded steel boxes. Thats included our according to you "100% world class", super efficient Govt/Military owned HIT/POF/PAC. Our nation is currently at full throttle on economic, moral and brain drain mode.

If there is a local current affairs political thread then tag me along. I too wanted to talk about that person in your profile picture who sold us immense quantities of hope and till now delivered nothing. I was really expecting under his leadership Pakistan would really change its course towards glory. Now people like me are forced to think that those corrupt goons were still somewhat better than him in governance or picking up fights at least. He broke hearts of true Pakistani simpleton like me

Is it the upgraded version of AK-1s? I wish it would be something better like VT-4/MBT-2000s from China.

Besides AK-2, PA should work on acquiring T-80s which Ukraine already has and they can be bought easily and Russian too have those and I'm sure if PA tries then it can come to Pakistan easily.

Yes if Pakistan Army and HIT takes the decision VT-4s would be churning out of our factories in a matter of months as they are simply upgradation of Chinese variant of AL Khalid which we are already manufacturing for decades. We can even make it more potent/diversified by incorporating Turkish/French/Ukrainian or other European electronics, hard kill APS, Engines etc.

The Russian T-80 is different from Ukrainian one.

 

[Akh1112]

Is it the upgraded version of AK-1s? I wish it would be something better like VT-4/MBT-2000s from China.

Besides AK-2, PA should work on acquiring T-80s which Ukraine already has and they can be bought easily and Russian too have those and I'm sure if PA tries then it can come to Pakistan easily.

Problem is, Ukraine cant produce to meet export. They would need to be license produced and idk how well that would go

 

[Incog_nito]

Problem is, Ukraine cant produce to meet export. They would need to be license produced and idk how well that would go

I mean acquiring old ones

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Ary news was reporting just a while back that Army chief attended 'handover ceremony' of Al Khalid tank at Heavy Industries Taxila.

 

[The Terminator]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1571715
https://www.dawn.com/news/1571715
Mighty ew AL Khalid 1 tank has been inducted in Armored Corps Regiment of Pak Army. HIT has done it. The latest 5th Gen high Tech AL Khalid 1 has new Stealth paint job which has some pixelated camo pattern too. At last they have changed its paint job after 2 decades of service. This paint job would dazzle the eyes and sights of enemy tanks and airborne assets and would render them useless. This special paint was imported from China then modified and upgraded by researchers and scientists in HIT whom identities are shrouded under secrecy due to complex nature of their job. CIA, Mosad and KGB are actively searching and hunting for this new tech and world class HIT researchers who have created it. Puny Abrams, Leapords, K2 Black Panthers, Armatas would not stand a chance against mighty state of the art modern AL Khalid 1 MBT. They would never know what struck them. Iran, North Korea, Turkey and other friendly countries too are secretly negotiating for acquiring this monstrosity and its paint job tech ToT. It can withstand any kind of chemica, biological or even a Nuclear blast let alone some punk shells or small guided munitions fired by some exotic minions.

It's paint job also includes latest technology of 75mm of Graphene armored coatings. For those of you newbies Graphene is the toughest crystal layer form that exists in the world. So it surpasses Abrams old school obsolete DU reinforced armor by a 100 times. So even future directed energy weapons would also have minimal effect on Al Khalid 1 MBT.

But unfortunately Currently this tank has no export variant and PM Imran Khan has issued a notification to destroy its manufacturing tooling after the serial production and induction of this tank to PAK Army so that no intellectual, technological theft could be possible for hostile nations. Foreign clients would have to rely on only Chinese MBT 2000 or VT-4 MBT 3000 which are greatly inferior to the AL Khalid 1 tank.

Meanwhile China has offered Pakistan for all the CPEC loan waiver if HIT could share their ultra modern nano tech Graphene reinforced coated paint technology with them.

NASA and Elon Musk have already submitted their proposals for future JV projects regarding space program and Mars colonization with HIT as this tech would be essential for Mars settlements.

Cheers long live Pakistan logn live HIT. Congrats to all the nation. View media item 18353View media item 18353

 

[Mrc]

It seems like alkhalid I And alkhalid 1 are different tanks...

Just go through older pics of alkhalid I

 

[The Terminator]

It seems like alkhalid I And alkhalid 1 are different tanks...

Just go through older pics of alkhalid I

Yeah AL Khalid I then AL Khalid 1 and in 2030 another one would be AL Khalid i.

Then long after that Imam Mehdi would come and HIT would provide them state of the art tank, that would be the only weapon to defeat combined forces of Dajjal. The AL Khalid ١ tank

Nice keep it up.