PAK FA vs F22 Raptor : A Detailed Analasis

[soaringphnx]

And that is the only thing you can do. Imagination and wishful thinking do not always come true. Three dimensional thrust vectoring with no appropriate automatic flight controls algorithm will be nothing more than an unused feature.

Do you really think the Russians developed 3D TVC, employed it successfully in the Su-37 and MiG-35, and are yet to create the appropriate software to control it? Doesn't make sense at all.

 

[gambit]

I have no idea what you meant by LPI mode. Can you please elaborate.

And yet you have no problems at all making claims.

LPI stands for: Low Probability of Intercept.

The word 'intercept' here mean the defender is aware of the threat radar. When one advanced radar is operating in LPI mode, the threat radar's output is designed to be discarded by the defender as 'clutter', meaning the threat signals are considered to be part of the rejected spectrum, which include cosmic background radiation, sea surface noise, clouds...etc...Basically, anything that is programmed to be rejected by every radar systems.

 

[soaringphnx]

And that is the only thing you can do. Imagination and wishful thinking do not always come true. Three dimensional thrust vectoring with no appropriate automatic flight controls algorithm will be nothing more than an unused feature.

Here's a video of the MiG-29OVT which also employs 3D TVC

 

[gambit]

Do you really think the Russians developed 3D TVC, employed it successfully in the Su-37 and MiG-35, and are yet to create the appropriate software to control it? Doesn't make sense at all.

They can make it so that it will be pilot control only. Given what we know of Russian avionics, it is highly speculative, though not impossible, that the Russians have automated it. Yours is the typical 'more must be better' gullible mind.

 

[soaringphnx]

They can make it so that it will be pilot control only. Given what we know of Russian avionics, it is highly speculative, though not impossible, that the Russians have automated it. Yours is the typical 'more must be better' gullible mind.

Here again we are forced to speculate.

 

[amalakas]

A cosmic background radiation,

Wow... perhaps we don't need expensive telescope arrays and space telescopes then, perhaps we should use our fighters to detect far away stars..!!!!!!!

Aesa radars are only made possible due to software, similarly there are algorithms that can defeat LPI modes, by buffering and scanning the clutter for repeated patterns and repeated power waveforms.

 

[gambit]

Aesa radars are only made possible due to software, similarly there are algorithms that can defeat LPI modes, by buffering and scanning the clutter for repeated patterns and repeated power waveforms.

Umm...Okey-dokey...Good luck in finding them 'repeated' thingies...Am not saying it is impossible to filter through the clutter region. Am just saying good luck in finding something that may or may not exist.

 

[amalakas]

Umm...Okey-dokey...Good luck in finding them 'repeated' thingies...Am not saying it is impossible to filter through the clutter region. Am just saying good luck in finding something that may or may not exist.

If an LPI radar is "illuminating" you, they will exist !
Oh i am not saying it's easy, that's why the algorithms exist and are highly complex, multiple stochastic processes and statistical analysis algorithms must run on the signal to determine what the likelyhood of being illuminated and tracked is, but then again, most modern radars are already running very complex and complicated algorithms to perform their functions.

 

[Tang0]

And yet you have no problems at all making claims.

LPI stands for: Low Probability of Intercept.

Just because he is not familiar with a particular piece of military aviation jargon specific to the US (In fact, even more specific, confined to people who work with 4-5 gen ECM/ECW, a helo pilot would have no idea what you are talking about..) does not imply his claims are specious, although many of them seem to be so.

The only reason I mention it is that I am an aerospace engineer trained in the United States, who knows people in, and follows military aviation, and I had no idea what that acronym stood for until you explained it. Be careful Why you imply someone's opinion is worthless, it makes your arguments stronger.

 

[Vce Rysi]

Russia
GDP (purchasing power parity):
$2.116 trillion (2009 est.)
country comparison to the world: 8
$2.298 trillion (2008 est.)
$2.176 trillion (2007 est.)
note: data are in 2009 US dollars

GDP (official exchange rate):
$1.232 trillion (2009 est.)

GDP - real growth rate:
-7.9(2009 est.) Decreasing Growth Rate
country comparison to the world: 206
5.6% (2008 est.)
8.1% (2007 est.)

United States

GDP (purchasing power parity):
$14.26 trillion (2009 est.)
country comparison to the world: 2
$14.61 trillion (2008 est.)
$14.55 trillion (2007 est.)
note: data are in 2009 US dollars

GDP (official exchange rate):
$14.43 trillion (2009 est.)

GDP - real growth rate:
-2.4% (2009 est.)
country comparison to the world: 151
0.4% (2008 est.)
2.1% (2007 est.)
The US military spending is 7 times more than China, 13 times more than Russia, ...

Now here is the point, unless you belive in Miracles, Santa Clause and the tooth fairy Russia does not have the resources to build a complete new generation of fighters. Its not even a sure thing the USA can afford it.

For Russia to do any thing they have to sell them to other markets, the russian military cant afford to develope, build and aquire a new generation of fighters on their own. About the most the Russians can do is pimp up the migs, add a little stealth and this and that and sell enought to keep production going back in Russia....My predictions .Russian planes are still going to crash, Russia has never been good at quality control, and they are going to be shot down by american planes at a astonishing rate and its going to be a long time befor they are in full production.

Don't be a retard. GDP or Gross Domestic Product measures the amount of consumption, investment, government spending, and net exports in an economy. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOVERNMENT BUDGET. As a matter of fact, the US overspends 1 trillion dollars a year, where Russia runs 50 billion dollar budget surpluses. Russia also has only 13% flat income tax (which is the biggest source of income) where the US has 35% progressive. The US has a higher tax rate, and still overspends. They are going to cut back on spending, but Russia wont. Russia also has room to increase their tax rate, whereas the US is less likely to.

Also the military is unpopular in the US. Look what news agencies had to say when F-22 production was cancelled, they said it was a great idea by the government. In Russia there is a much more favorable attitude towards military spending, and hence is more easily increased.

In conclusion the United States armed forces and going to wane in the next few years if Obama is smart and makes cuts. If he doesn't and the US government collapses then just look at the Soviet Union, the outcome will be the same.

 

[Vce Rysi]

Buddy...You are talking out of your behind. This L-band radar have been questioned about its efficacy before. The set up is simply too small to be effective. As for infrared, it is no good for target resolutions, only general direction and that is also iffy at best.


And that is why the F-22 will employ LPI mode.

L-Band radars do not need to have large antennas. Since they have a longer wavelength and a smaller frequency they can travel further, that is why airports use L-band radars when detecting incoming airplanes at a long range, and communication between GPS, GLONASS, and Galileo systems.

 

[Thomas]

Also the military is unpopular in the US. Look what news agencies had to say when F-22 production was cancelled

I think maybe you have watched to many biased Russian TV reports. The U.S. military enjoys wide support. Some people may not like the wars but they still support the military.

What killed the F-22 was not just money. But the fact it turned out to be such a good aircraft with no equal. As a result it was seen as a program that was no longer needed. So when money got tight and policy planners saw the F-35 about to come online. The Penny pinchers saw an opportunity to cut defense costs and rely more on the F-35 capabilities as well as Super Hornets. If it was all about money you would have seen them try for deep cuts in the F-35 also.

 

[ptldM3]

They can make it so that it will be pilot control only. Given what we know of Russian avionics, it is highly speculative, though not impossible, that the Russians have automated it. Yours is the typical 'more must be better' gullible mind.

I beleive alot of people underestimate Russian avioncs without fully knowing much about them.

Russian aircraft such as the SU-35BM can be programmed to complete a mission without the pilot, atleast according to a video interview with one of the designers, the SU-35 will also not allow the pilot to put himself in danger by performing a maneuver that will result in a crash, in other words if a pilot performs a loop that has too much airspeed and not enough altitude the aircraft automatically levels out, thus this greatly reduces pilot error.

Russia also has a stealth drone that is by design unstable, it doesn't even have vertical stabalizers. The only way it is able to fly is by the assistance of fly-by-wire.

 

[MZUBAIR]

One line Analysis....

PAK FA is a paper concept (under production) vs F22 Raptor is a reality

 

[nightcrawler]

I think maybe you have watched to many biased Russian TV reports. The U.S. military enjoys wide support. Some people may not like the wars but they still support the military.

What killed the F-22 was not just money. But the fact it turned out to be such a good aircraft with no equal. As a result it was seen as a program that was no longer needed. So when money got tight and policy planners saw the F-35 about to come online. The Penny pinchers saw an opportunity to cut defense costs and rely more on the F-35 capabilities as well as Super Hornets. If it was all about money you would have seen them try for deep cuts in the F-35 also.

Then why did SR71 succeeded U2 even though Russian didn't have any parallel plane!!

The answer is besides a MATCHING plane US had to counter advance missile threats & breach through russian airspace radars something cant be done via Hornets or rather even F35