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Pak-China Education Collaboration

Aeon

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We hear a lot about military and geopolitical collaboration between Pakistan and China, but what might be more important for the long-run may be a sturdy joint education project carried out with the help of China. Now as we can all see, Chinese students are amongst the best in the world. Every top level university you go to in the world, you are sure to find Chinese students present there, usually in a larger quantity compared to other Asian countries. They (the Chinese universities) are churning out engineers, scientists, mathematicians, etc by the droves, and that really is the true secret behind their insane pace of development. If they didn't have these qualified experts and professionals, no matter how many companies come to their country, they would not have been able to develop their country they way they have. It is a common stereotype in the west that Chinese kids/students are good or better at math, or studying, than their average western counterpart.

Why aren't we exploiting this great talent that China has in its ability to educate its people? I may be wrong, but there aren't many (or even one?) high level educational institutions set up in Pakistan with the collaboration of China. This is something that could or should have been implemented and carried out decades ago. Ideally it would be important to get help in developing and implementing an overall nation-wide educational system 'similar' to what they have in China, from the primaries to the post-secondary.

----/Mathematics
Mathematics is not a subject that requires costly equipment and setup like physics or engineering or chemistry. All you need for learning it is a classroom, a capable professor, some computers, stationary supplies, and students. The cost is minimal compared to the other sciences.

Indians are good at math, Chinese are good at math, Iranis are good at math. What about Pakistanis? We are surrounded by countries that are excelling in math (not to count Afghanistan, for obvious reasons), but we ourselves are miserable in it. The state of mathematics is abysmal in Pakistan. This is a place where I believe our Chinese friends can definitely lend us a very crucial helping hand in changing the dire state of our country. And by all means should do so. What we need is some sort of Mathematical Institute, that offers credible training of an international standard in undergraduate and graduate levels of mathematical sciences (ie pure math, applied math, acturial science, finance, statistics, combinatorics/optimization, computer science, etc), which raises the status of pursuing mathematical scholarship in Pakistan and allows capable/interested people from all parts of the country to attend (at a minimal fee for those that have real talent but can't afford).
----/Mathematics

If carrying out a full scale country-wide project is infeasible, then at least start with a single institute in a major city. Bring in as many Chinese professors and experts that can be brought and have them set up the system and teach (as our Pakistani faculty learns the system and teaches what they can). Require that every student of the institute will take a set of introductory courses in Mandarin. Indeed, if we are to set up any truly deep form of interfacing between our two nations, learning of each other's language is mandatory. And while we're at it, why not hire some Indian and Iranian mathematicians as well? We should learn from all that have the knowledge. (Not as many Indians I guess, they might not be so well received.)

I have no means or funds to do anything like this as I know many others don't either. But there must be people out there that can get this going, and yet simply haven't bothered to do so or it never came to their mind. Someone that can get in touch with these people should do so and propose that they begin to work at something like this. Pak-China friendship is great, but it's true worth can be shown by whether they can help us in this regard as it goes right to the very cause of Pakistan's overall state of misery. This would be the most ultimate way of increasing and entrenching the ties between our two countries. And I don't believe it will cost so much by starting with a single institution. Gradually work up from there to a nation-wide system. If the education level can be increased, many problems will resolve themselves, and the economy will begin to improve at a faster rate than would be expected. The GREATEST RESOURCE any nation has are its own EDUCATED POPULACE (rather than natural resources). A fact most well proven by Japan, Korea, China, and some other countries. A strong and stable Pakistan would only be a stronger and more able ally to China as well, and a reduced threat to its neighbors.

Just throwing this out here in case it can ignite a few, so things may start happening, sooner rather than later.

Thank you for reading.

God bless.
 
i did not read full article except one line saying "Indians are good in maths so are chinese and iranians but what about us" i think we are also very good in maths and compete with other neighbour. Whole of South Asia is good in maths far better than europeans. For example the questions i used to learned in Pakistan in class 6, they were teaching me here in GCSE's (in Class 10 and 11)
 
Chinese are solid , they get 100/100 in math and science genious children I could only get 85% or 83%:undecided:

Very smart children and education system :china:
 
Hey man I do not agree on your generalisation about maths. While Chinese students might be better than their average western counterpart it might not stand true in each and every case. I did my GCSE's from Pakistan I got 94% A* in other words. My family moved to the uk, my parents wanted me to be in one of the best school in our area . I came in uk on 21 march 200* and on 22 I had my interview plus exam . I am not sure how many of them were really Chinese but from face they all looked Chinese . Out of 400 international students and probably 230 or so chinese students I got a place in mere 20 seats lefts . I got a score of 100% on the bechmark but truth was that there were seventeen including me who got full mark and one of them was chinese.

You know I am not from a city but a village. My parents are educated and they wanted the same for me and my siblings. My 94 % in Pakistan were thought to be really good while I took no extra tutions for that. I did superbly well in my sixthform as well specially in maths my Chinese friends were not even close.

Hell man we have now got into this sick habit of asking for help. Why can't we even teach our chirldren how to add or subtract. I am not a genious but I know many in Pakistan. Why would I work so hard when j know that I will not get addmission in a good uni. We need alternatives for our students. I was so ashamed when applying for university I decided to put one apllicaton in Pakistan as well. Will you believe it there was no university with a proper course for architecture ; no course is acrredited by RIBA or ARB : go to India you will find loads.

Our students are very talented we have all difrent kinds of them let's give them time proper tools to study those who want to do something of themselves would do it and those who don't well they will be our next cream of politicians.
 
i did not read full article except one line saying "Indians are good in maths so are chinese and iranians but what about us" i think we are also very good in maths and compete with other neighbour. Whole of South Asia is good in maths far better than europeans. For example the questions i used to learned in Pakistan in class 6, they were teaching me here in GCSE's (in Class 10 and 11)

That is so so true. I also did add maths in GCSE which has all the same topics in A'levels. Got results that are shocking.
 
Yeah,in Singapore,Chinese tops the whole education here in biomedical science.I am the only Pakistani with 3 other Indians.
 
My view is that reasons for success of Asian students in math is two fold 1) population- more people means more brilliant students as well as more average students - we normally talk only about the brilliant ones 2) fewer jobs - fewer jobs force students to compete harder - that is why Asians score better

but the idea with collaborating with Chinese for education in Pakistan is good one..
 
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Mr X said:
i did not read full article except one line saying "Indians are good in maths so are chinese and iranians but what about us" i think we are also very good in maths and compete with other neighbour. Whole of South Asia is good in maths far better than europeans. For example the questions i used to learned in Pakistan in class 6, they were teaching me here in GCSE's (in Class 10 and 11)

I can guarantee you, higher level mathematics is in much better shape in India, Iran, and China than it is in Pakistan.

Hey man I do not agree on your generalisation about maths. While Chinese students might be better than their average western counterpart it might not stand true in each and every case. I did my GCSE's from Pakistan I got 94% A* in other words. My family moved to the uk, my parents wanted me to be in one of the best school in our area . I came in uk on 21 march 200* and on 22 I had my interview plus exam . I am not sure how many of them were really Chinese but from face they all looked Chinese . Out of 400 international students and probably 230 or so chinese students I got a place in mere 20 seats lefts . I got a score of 100% on the bechmark but truth was that there were seventeen including me who got full mark and one of them was chinese.

I don't know much about the UK, but in your case, it seems to be an exception rather than the rule. There is a big difference between the university level education in Pakistan and China and that fact remains true regardless of your example.

You know I am not from a city but a village. My parents are educated and they wanted the same for me and my siblings. My 94 % in Pakistan were thought to be really good while I took no extra tutions for that. I did superbly well in my sixthform as well specially in maths my Chinese friends were not even close.

Good for you. Now only if there were more Pakistani's like this. Reality is, you'll find more capable Chinese than Pakistanis or Indians. Again, in your case, it seems to be an exception rather than the rule.

Hell man we have now got into this sick habit of asking for help. Why can't we even teach our chirldren how to add or subtract. I am not a genious but I know many in Pakistan. Why would I work so hard when j know that I will not get addmission in a good uni. We need alternatives for our students. I was so ashamed when applying for university I decided to put one apllicaton in Pakistan as well. Will you believe it there was no university with a proper course for architecture ; no course is acrredited by RIBA or ARB : go to India you will find loads.

Math is not about adding or subtracting. That's a big misconception in Pakistan. Here is an article that talks about this from PakMS (Pakistan Mathematical Society) on this, Issue No. 1, Vol. 7, 2008, and they agree that state of mathematics in Pakistan is in decline. You can just read the first paragraph of the Editorial, and it will mention it near the end. Here you can see what kind of undergrad Mathematics there are and what they are about:

Link to Different Kinds of Mathematics

And obviously, they are way more than just "adding or subtracting" or even solving an equation. The level of "hardness" or "rigor" found in Western or Chinese institutions far eclipses those of ours.

There are numerous universities in Canada, and in most of them, you'll find more Chinese than Indians or Pakistanis. For example, there is this University of Waterloo, which is regarded as having the largest math faculty in the world. And you'll find more Chinese students studying in this university than Indians or Pakistani's. I cannot speak for the US but I believe the ratio is similar over there (i.e. MIT, Harvard, etc) as well. How is it that more Chinese get accepted at these high level institutions and graduate from them (than other Asians)? It must mean they have a better education system.

Our students are very talented we have all difrent kinds of them let's give them time proper tools to study those who want to do something of themselves would do it and those who don't well they will be our next cream of politicians.

Yes, that is the irony. We have loads of talent, but sadly most of it is going to waste. Hence, the need for establishing a system that can quickly and capably harness that talent and make it into a viable economic force. And here the Chinese have done very well. They have a strong model that produces results. If implemented in Pakistan with their guidance or help, it would be tremendous for us.

ameer219 said:
Yeah,in Singapore,Chinese tops the whole education here in biomedical science.I am the only Pakistani with 3 other Indians.

They do, don't they?

MilesTogo said:
My view is that reasons for success of Asian students in math is two fold 1) population- more people means more brilliant students as well as more average students - we are talking only about the brilliant ones here 2) fewer jobs - fewer jobs force students to compete harder - that is why Asians score better

but the idea with collabrating with Chinese for education in Pakistan is good one..

I see what you mean. But there are lots of Indians as well. At the moment, you'll find more educated Chinese than Indians.




But, as I said, implementing a whole system like that might be infeasible to begin with. The better idea would be to simply start with a single higher education institute built in collaboration with China. After all, we are such good friends with the Chinese, how can we not manage to do a simple thing as that? They have the knowledge, we have the need, this is a perfect match. Once this institute is up and running, it's symbolic effect might ignite enough fire to reform the whole Pakistan education system and form it based upon a model similar to theirs.
 
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Peking University- CHINA
Xi’an Jiaotong University-CHINA
Indian Institute of Technology Bombay-INDIA
Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur-INDIA

These colleges are in top 30......
 
Peking University- CHINA
Xi’an Jiaotong University-CHINA
Indian Institute of Technology Bombay-INDIA
Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur-INDIA

These colleges are in top 30......


I am guessing you used the following list to get those. Here is a full list for those that wish to see it:

Top 200 Universities

I'll run down a top 30 list here focusing on the Asian only:

6) Peking University - CHINA
9) Shanghai Jiao Tong University - CHINA
11) Tsinghua University - CHINA
14) Fudan University - CHINA
16) Xi’an Jiaotong University - CHINA
18) Keio University - JAPAN
19) National University of Singapore - SINGAPORE
23) Nanjing University - CHINA
26) Indian Institute of Technology Bombay - INDIA
29) Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur - INDIA
30) Institut Teknologi Bandung - INDONESIA

I'm not sure if that is the best list to use, but there are a lot more of the Chinese ones there than the two you mentioned.
 
Your list is full of BS.

Harvard seeks space for classroom in India


Kalpana Pathak / Mumbai February 16, 2010, 0:03 IST
US-headquartered Harvard Business School (HBS) has decided to have a classroom of its own in the country for its executive education programmes and Indian corporate chiefs Ratan Tata and Anand Mahindra are said to be helping it find one.

The B-school had been conducting executive education or management development programmes (MDPs) in India since 2008 — but always in five-star hotels. Now it’s planning its “own centre in India for executive education programmes which have been growing”, confirmed Professor Tom DeLong, the Philip J Stomberg Professor of Management Practice. He teaches MBA and executive education courses focused on topics like managing human capital and organisational behaviour.

“HBS did two programmes in India in 2008 and one programme in 2009. This year, we are in the market with three programmes, for which we need a permanent place. It could be in Mumbai,” he added.

HBS and its India Research Center (IRC) plan to offer three executive education programmes in India from April to July 2010 — Building a Global Enterprise in India; Develop India-Strategies for Growth and Managing; and Transforming Professional Service Firms. The programmes are for senior executives of Indian companies and multinational companies operating in India, as well as managers and investors interested in expanding operations to India.

Industry experts say HBS’s presence in India could pose a serious competition to the Indian School of Business, Hyderabad and the Indian Institutes of Management (IIMs) in the executive education space.

For one, HBS ranks higher than all Indian B-schools. It was ranked the third best B-school in the world after Wharton School of Business (University of Pennsylvania) and London Business School, according to the 2010 Financial Times ‘Global MBA rankings’.

Hyderabad-based Indian School of Business, on the other hand, was ranked 12.

HBS’s search for a permanent classroom is likely to put more pressue on executive education programmes from domestic B-schools. On an average, executive education programmes comprise around 35 per cent of the revenue stream for most leading B-schools in the country.

“Of course it will intensify competition in the market. Harvard is an international brand that could give the other B-schools a run for their money,” said a professor from a B-school who did not wish to be identified.

ISB, however, is unfazed. Deepak Chandra, deputy dean, ISB Hyderabad, countered: “There’s space for everyone in the country and executive education from various B-schools is welcome. It’s not about demand. It’s about quality.”

Charges for the executive education programmes are school- and programme-specific. For instance, HBS charges Rs 2.12 lakh (plus service tax) for a five-day programme on “Building a Global Enterprise in India” and ISB Rs 1.5 lakh for a five-day programme on “Marketing Strategy in a Competitive Environment” . IIM-Ahmedabad, on the other hand, is charging Rs 1.5 lakh for a five-day programme for top Management on “Corporate Strategy - Brand Strategy Linkages”.

The IIMs, however, say that Harvard’s entry in the market could prove to be competition for ISB as IIMs offer programmes at a different price point. IIMs offer programmes at two levels: short duration (seven to 20 days) and longer durations (six months). “Harvard is not in the longer duration executive education programmes so competition for the IIMs seems lower than for the ISB,” said an IIM professor who did not wish to be identified. Meanwhile, with the global economic revival, B-schools say companies are loosening their purse strings and putting employee training programmes back on track. B-schools say they see and upsurge in executive education enrollments by 40 to 50 per cent.

And what about IISC Bangalore?

Are u talking about engineering institutes only?
 
Your list is full of BS.

This is not my list. This is the list your fellow Indian "LCA Tejas" most likely used to come up with the 4 names above in his post, because he never mentioned where he got that info from. And based upon that conjecture, I looked up the top 30 and found what I found.

There are numerous such lists, and each has slightly different ranking criteria than another. That is not the point. The point is in each list, you will find a basic pattern that Chinese institutions usually rank higher than other Asian ones, and there are obviously more of them, than Indian or Pakistani institutions.

Attempting to raise the education level of a billion or so people is no joke. And they've managed to do that pretty well from the primaries to the post-secondary, which has no doubt resulted in vast benefits to their nation. Pakistan can benefit from this expertise and invariably should seek to, which is the main point of this thread.

Are u talking about engineering institutes only?

About any credible post-secondary institution of higher education. It doesn't have to be restricted to engineering.
 
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This is not my list. This is the list your fellow Indian "LCA Tejas" most likely used to come up with the 4 names above in his post, because he never mentioned where he got that info from. And based upon that conjecture, I looked up the top 30 and found what I found.

There are numerous such lists, and each has slightly different ranking criteria than another. That is not the point. The point is in each list, you will find a basic pattern that Chinese institutions usually rank higher than other Asian ones, and there are obviously more of them, than Indian or Pakistani institutions.

Attempting to raise the education level of a billion or so people is no joke. And they've managed to do that pretty well from the primaries to the post-secondary, which has no doubt resulted in vast benefits to their nation. Pakistan can benefit from this expertise and invariably should seek to, which is the main point of this thread.



About any credible post-secondary institution of higher education. It doesn't have to be restricted to engineering.

As u have confessed their r numerous lists, u should post most respectable one.
 
come on guys, I am doing Alevels GCE here in Pakistan from beacon house over here everyone has a minimum of of 2 As and Math is the most common subject, math is said to be the most easiest subject by the Alevels students in whole Islamabad, dono abt other cities but my cousins and friends frm Lahore also secured an A in Maths:cheers:
:pakistan::pakistan:
 
Somebody should also mention PAK-US educational collaboration .. Its far more better than this one ..!
 
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