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Pak believes that attacking India is their birth right,eent ka jawaab patthar se dena hoga: Parrikar

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We need to put some tape on this loud mouth for so called posturing..

This guy needs this below pic as wall paper , painting in his wall of sight as well as first thing he sees when he gets up in the morning

View attachment 309913

@Iggy
I was hoping he would keep on his silence but then I expected too much I guess.....


And what makes you think it is not being done?

Public posturing has to be done.

Remember Vajpayee government? They worked and did not project till last minute when they went for their campaign ... result?

10 years of Un-Performing Assh0les (UPA)

according to some history i have read, India had crossed over to East Pakistani territory around 21-22 November 1971, while our Govt responded on 3 Dec 1971 with Operation Chengiz Khan, and that was when the Objectives of the IAF were changed to "Complete Air Superiority Over the EPAF"

True.

Do you Even have sources of that Not Pakistani but Neutral sources

The member is right.

Exactly what purpose do these statements serve? In your opinion?

Political posturing .. nothin else!
 
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Nothing. In this particular instance, my statements were not intended to serve any purpose. They were intended to convey that perhaps the person posting had something of insight to say, although that ought not to be stated categorically.
I was referring to the minister's statement.
 
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I note that some are using the language of partition as if some great whole was destroyed: it was not. A colonial enterprise came to an end. Why do people think that the Subcontinent was a political unity before the British? Even under the Mughals it was very diverse. I suppose we should speak of the partition of the Austro-Hungarian Empire as well or the German Reich?.

Interesting inputs, indeed! What are your views on the rise of nation states like:

1. United States.
2. China
3. Prussia
4. Your present residence - United Kingdom
5. Spain
6. Yugoslavia
7. Czechoslovakia
8. Turkey under Ottomans

actually the rise of nation states as a concept and historical fact?
 
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I think the Arab states and Turkish states have a greater claim. Pakistan is not the successor state to them; however she has a strong historical legacy but that is the nature of history. They did good things and bad things.

No I am not talking about history or geography but about the politics and policies of cutting of all cultural links with Indian subcontinent to follow practices and take up the causes of the erstwhile rulers. There are many posts on this forum itself proclaiming that.
 
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No I am not talking about history or geography but about the politics and policies of cutting of all cultural links with Indian subcontinent to follow practices and take up the causes of the erstwhile rulers. There are many posts on this forum itself proclaiming that.
Cutting off cultural links with the Subcontinent? Please give some examples.

Interesting inputs, indeed! What are your views on the rise of nation states like:

1. United States.
2. China
3. Prussia
4. Your present residence - United Kingdom
5. Spain
6. Yugoslavia
7. Czechoslovakia
8. Turkey under Ottomans

actually the rise of nation states as a concept and historical fact?
I personally do not like the concept of nation states; I prefer Dar-ul-Islam. I feel this is the work of the Anti-Christ in deceiving Mankind into committing blasphemy. Ottoman Empire was not a nation state even thought it was not a great example of Dar-ul-Islam. Turkey post Caliphate is another creature.
 
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Cutting off cultural links with the Subcontinent? Please give some examples.


I personally do not like the concept of nation states; I prefer Dar-ul-Islam. I feel this is the work of the Anti-Christ in deceiving Mankind into committing blasphemy. Ottoman Empire was not a nation state even thought it was not a great example of Dar-ul-Islam. Turkey post Caliphate is another creature.
He is talking about the fact that Islam doesn't belong to the sub-continent and it is culturally different.
What he doesn't realise is that he is on a slippery slope the moment he brings in that argument- in that, Hinduism is not a native to the subcontinent as well. The Aryans are nomads who came from outside the subcontinent, and brought with them their religion and their language Sanskrit. The original inhabitants of the subcontinent are the Indus valley people(who were most likely dravidians), and the dravidians who inhabit the south, and the shudras of the north India, and the east India mongoloids. The rest are all immigrants(who generally speak derivatives of the Sanskrit language) and are not natives to the land.
 
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Cutting off cultural links with the Subcontinent? Please give some examples.
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You have adopted everything from religion to language from your west. There is nothing you share with the east.

Pakistanis look up to Muhammad bin qasim as their fore father.

To justify these acts you need an excuse called evil Hinduism

Prior to the advent of Islam Central asia and Afpak were practicing Buddhism.

I know Hinduism is evil with its caste system but what were the short comings of Buddhism?

Your hate for it was so intense that you supported Taliban to destroy the Buddha Statues of Bamiyan in Afghanistan.
 
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Khisyani Billi Khamba nochelay
 
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He is talking about the fact that Islam doesn't belong to the sub-continent and it is culturally different.
What he doesn't realise is that he is on a slippery slope the moment he brings in that argument- in that, Hinduism is not a native to the subcontinent as well. The Aryans are nomads who came from outside the subcontinent, and brought with them their religion and their language Sanskrit. The original inhabitants of the subcontinent are the Indus valley people(who were most likely dravidians), and the dravidians who inhabit the south, and the shudras of the north India, and the east India mongoloids. The rest are all immigrants(who generally speak derivatives of the Sanskrit language) and are not natives to the land.

So, do Pakistanis consider themselves as Aryans?
 
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So, do Pakistanis consider themselves as Aryans?
Genetically I would consider them Aryans, same as the Iranians who are proud to flaunt they are Aryans.


You have adopted everything from religion to language from your west. There is nothing you share with the east.

Pakistanis look up to Muhammad bin qasim as their fore father.

To justify these acts you need an excuse called evil Hinduism

Prior to the advent of Islam Central asia and Afpak were practicing Buddhism.

I know Hinduism is evil with it caste system but what were the short comings of Buddhism?

Your hate for it was so intense that you supported Taliban to destroy the Buddha Statues of Bamiyan in Afghanistan.
That's because Islam is vehemently against idolatry. Muslims are just doing what their God is asking them to do.

Qur’an 9:5—Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


Christians and jews are lucky

Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day [notice it says “fight those who do not believe,” not “fight people who are attacking you”], nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book [the people of the book are Jews and Christians], until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

The people of the book(jews and christians) only have to pay the jizya/tax and become Dhimmis. That privilage does not extent to Pagans(Hinduism) and Idolators(Hinduism and Buddhism). Basically its convert or be killed. Hindus are lucky that the Muslim rulers were bad muslims, and were mostly interested in power and looting.
 
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Genetically I would consider them Aryans, same as the Iranians who are proud to flaunt they are Aryans.



That's because Islam is vehemently against idolatry. Muslims are just doing what their God is asking them to do.

Qur’an 9:5—Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.


Christians and jews are lucky

Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day [notice it says “fight those who do not believe,” not “fight people who are attacking you”], nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book [the people of the book are Jews and Christians], until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

The people of the book(jews and christians) only have to pay the jizya/tax and become Dhimmis. That privilage does not extent to Pagans(Hinduism) and Idolators(Hinduism and Buddhism). Basically its convert or be killed. Hindus are lucky that the Muslim rulers were bad muslims, and were mostly interested in power and looting.


On one hand you claim to belong to Indo-Iranian-Aryan culture while at the same time spewing venom on it based on the learnings from the people who destroyed the same Indo-Iranian-Aryan cultures.
 
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You have adopted everything from religion to language from your west. There is nothing you share with the east.

Pakistanis look up to Muhammad bin qasim as their fore father.

To justify these acts you need an excuse called evil Hinduism

Prior to the advent of Islam Central asia and Afpak were practicing Buddhism.

I know Hinduism is evil with it caste system but what were the short comings of Buddhism?

Your hate for it was so intense that you supported Taliban to destroy the Buddha Statues of Bamiyan in Afghanistan.
Not all Pakistanis were buddhists. Actually Sindh and Balochistan were primarily Hindu. Most of Punjab was also Hindu.

Only KPK, Gilgit Baltistan, other pashtun dominated areas were practicing buddhism. Side note: Balochistan is home
to the Hinglaj Mata Temple
 
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I was referring to the minister's statement.

Oh, THOSE!!
  1. Self-projection
  2. Burnishing the image of the Raksha Mantralaya as a can-do place
  3. Hiding the too-clever by half decisions being taken, which land up in further delays
  4. Keeping the top military command awake at night wondering what he means
  5. Keeping the top Pakistani military command awake at night wondering if there is a loose screw in the person occupying the Defence portfolio down east
  6. Keeping the Pakistani political leadership awake at night trying to guess what deep game might lie behind a silly statement
  7. Tossing fanboys a bone
More if you like........
 
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On one hand you claim to belong to Indo-Iranian-Aryan culture while at the same time spewing venom on it based on the learnings from the people who destroyed the same Indo-Iranian-Aryan cultures.
Basically its called evolution. When a better idea comes along the way, people generally ditch the old idea for the new. Basically these people were just fed up on the caste system and jumped ship to a religion which promises equality to all who practice the religion by the book. Why would any idiot consider himself to be inferior to another just because some sweaty men chanting some gibberish to some idols told them so.
 
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The people of the book(jews and christians) only have to pay the jizya/tax and become Dhimmis. That privilage does not extent to Pagans(Hinduism) and Idolators(Hinduism and Buddhism). Basically its convert or be killed. Hindus are lucky that the Muslim rulers were bad muslims, and were mostly interested in power and looting.

You mean to say that Dharmic people were lucky to survive ?

Chapter 9 – Timur’s Account of His Invasion of India and Sack of Delhi
1398–1399 A.D.
After his victorious sweep over Persia and Mesopotamia to Asia Minor on the west, and his occupation of Afghanistan on the south, Timur Lang, or Tamerlane, the great conqueror, turned his attention to India as the next country in which to wage a holy war and from which to carry away rich spoils sanctified by religion. China also had attracted his eye, so that his mind wavered for a moment as to which country he should invade, but an omen from the Koran settled his decision, and he determined to make the expedition against Hindustan. We have a somewhat detailed account of his campaign recorded in autobiographic memoirs which he caused to be written down, and a translation of these, made from the Turkish language into Persian two centuries after his death, serves as a valuable record of the great conqueror’s exploits,



The River Indus at Khushalgarh

infidels of Hindustan or of China.

At first they repeated fables and wise sayings, and then said that in the country of Hindustan there are four defences, and if any one invades this extensive country and breaks down these four defences, he becomes the conqueror of the land.



Shah Timur

(From an old Persian print.)

and settlement of this kingdom, I turned my thoughts toward the acquisition of some of the provinces of Hindustan. I inquired concerning the condition of that country and received the following account: that the city of Delhi is the capital of the sovereigns of India, and that after the death of Sultan Firoz Shah, two brothers among his nobility, one of whom was named Mallu and the other Sarang, became very powerful and established their independence; so that though they gave the nominal sovereignty to one of the sons of Sultan Firoz Shah, Sultan Mahmud by name, they kept the real power in their own hands and virtually governed the empire. Mallu, the elder brother, lives at Delhi, at the court of Sultan Mahmud, while Sarang is established in the city of Multan for the protection of that country.

“When I became acquainted with these matters, I acted according to the practice of the great king, and wrote a letter which I sent to Sarang by an ambassador, declaring that since the fame of the victories and conquests and of the extensive empire of the great king

3. Setting spurs to my horse, I marched forward in great haste, accomplishing two days’ journey within twenty-four hours. When I arrived at a place called Paryan, I detached Prince Rustam and Burhan Aghlan Jujitar, who were reckoned among my chief nobles, to invade



Ruins at Kabul

the country of the Siyah-poshes, which lay on the left hand. With them I sent some of the nobility and a body of ten thousand cavalry, while I myself pursued my march toward the mountains of Kator.

When I made inquiries concerning the extent and condition of that kingdom from Muzid, who was the chief man of Indarab, he informed me that the length of the kingdom of Kator stretches from the frontier of Kashmir to the mountains of Kabul, and that there are many towns and villages in this country. One of their large cities is called Shokal, and another Jorkal, the latter being the residence of their ruler. The country produces fruit in large quantities, such as grapes, apples, apricots, and various other kinds. Rice and other grains are cultivated. Much wine is made, and all people, great and small, drink of it. The people eat swine’s flesh, and cattle and sheep abound in the country. Most of the inhabitants are idolaters; they are men of a powerful frame and fair complexion, and speak a language distinct from Turkish, Persian, nindi, and Kashmiri. Their weapons are arrows, swords, and slings, and their ruler is called Adalshu.

When I arrived at Khawak, I perceived a dilapidated fort which I resolved to repair. I therefore gave immediate orders to the soldiers to, that effect, and they were speedily executed. As most of the route was rocky and precipitous, I ordered most of the nobles and all the soldiers to leave their horses, camels, and superfluous baggage in this fort. In obedience to this order, most of the nobles and all the soldiers accompanied



An Afghan fortress

me on foot, while I, relying on the assistance of Almighty God, pressed steadily forward to the conquest of Kator and began to ascend the mountains. Despite the heat of the wind, there was so much snow on the hills that the feet of both men and cattle sank in it helplessly.

I was obliged, therefore, to halt during the day; but at night, when the snow congealed, I pursued my way over the frozen surface of the ice till I reached the top of the mountain. At daybreak, when the ice thawed, carpets and horse-rugs were spread upon its surface and the horses were kept upon them. At nightfall we again proceeded as before, and in this manner I crossed several lofty mountains, although



An Afghan Pass

lofty mountains full of snow and ice and passing through narrow defiles, rolling in many places over precipices and sliding over the icy surface, they finally got out of the mountains and into the open country.

When Mohammad Azad had extricated himself from the mountains and reached the fortress of the Siyahposhes, he found it deserted, for they had abandoned it from their dread of the army of Islam and had taken refuge in their mountain defiles.



all heretics, idolaters, infidels, and misbelievers. They had now set fire to their houses and had fled with their children and property toward Delhi, so that the whole country was deserted.

On the next day, the twenty-third of the month, I started from the fort of Aspandi, and after marching six leagues, arrived at the village of Taghlak-pur, at which I encamped opposite the fort of that same name. When the people of the fort had heard of the approach of my army, they had abandoned it and scattered throughout the country. From the information supplied me I learned that these people were called Sanawi [that is, Fire-worshippers, Zoroastrians, or Ghebers]. Many of this perverse creed believe that there are two gods. One is called Yazdan, and all the good they have they believe proceeds from him. The other god they call Ahriman, and every sin and wickedness of which they are guilty they hold is caused by him. These misbelievers



Mussulman priests of India

been told that in the fight one would take up a horseman and his horse with his trunk and hurl them in the air, but these stories, fortunately, had been met by suitable answers from some of the bold troopers.

The Council of War at length agreed that a plentiful supply of grain must first be secured and stored in the fort of Loni as provision for the army, and that after this was done, we might proceed to attack the fort and city of Delhi. When the council was over, I ordered Amir Jahan Shah, Amir Sulaiman Shah, and others to cross the Jumna and to forage in the environs of Delhi, bringing off all the corn they could find for the use of the army.



Mohammedan armour

their operations. When I had finished, the amirs and others testified their approbation, and, carefully treasuring up my counsel, they departed, expressing their blessings and thanks.

At this court Amir Jahan Shah, Amir Sulaiman Shah, and other amirs of experience informed me that, from the time of entering Hindustan up to the present we had taken more than one hundred thousand infidels and Hindus prisoners, and that they were all in my camp. On the previous day, when the enemy’s forces attacked us, the prisoners made signs of rejoicing, uttered imprecations against us, and were ready, as soon as they heard of the enemy’s success, to form themselves into a body, break their bonds, plunder our tents, and then to join the enemy, and so increase his numbers and strength. I asked the amirs for advice about the prisoners, and they said that on the day of battle these one hundred thousand prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty, so that no course remained but to make them all food for the sword.
 
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