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Pak Army lacks resolve to fight Taliban

There is no doubt that PA lacked the resolve to fight Taliban for unknown reasons. If it had the resolve there would have never been a Swat peace deal. Only upon pressure from US, that the PA is now acting against the Taliban but not on its own will.
 
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It doesnt lack anything Pak army's might is great one of the most powerful & biggest armies in the world ! the only thing it lacks is orders from up top to finish these coward terrorist bastards i hope things are clear now!

Your usual wishful thinking. Do you deny that there is a lot of sympathy within the ranks of the PA for the Taliban? Don't you think it is possible that this is a genuine problem for the PA and partially responsible for the sitution having gotten so out of hand? You keep brushing off this idea as not worthy of comment. Until the true causes of a problem are diagnosed, an effective solution to the problem will not be found. Methinks TOPGUN doth protest too much ......
 
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Pakistan's military has lost every conventional war.

With a completely incorrect statement like that (no wonder since most Indians are fed this canard in their history books and media) what else is to be expected from the rest of his analysis. :rolleyes:
 
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There is no doubt that PA lacked the resolve to fight Taliban for unknown reasons. If it had the resolve there would have never been a Swat peace deal. Only upon pressure from US, that the PA is now acting against the Taliban but not on its own will.

That is an absurdly simplistic and flawed analysis.

Please see my last few posts in the Acts of Terrorism thread about how the situation changed in Swat after the ANP led government came in.

Unlike the US, this is a civil war for Pakistan, and Pakistanis are getting killed on both sides. A much more measured and uncertain approach would therefore be expected, given that reality and the constraints faced.

Most of you pass comments about the PA doing this and doing that without understanding the complexities involved - a civil conflict against ones countrymen, a struggling economy, a struggling government, huge numbers of refugees and a resource crunch, only exacerbated by the civilian conflict.

Pakistan is not the US fighting half a world away with billions to pour into a conflict and not suffer from the resulting impact on the economy from both the military engagements and refugees.

Just complete nonsense.
 
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With a completely incorrect statement like that (no wonder since most Indians are fed this canard in their history books and media) what else is to be expected from the rest of his analysis. :rolleyes:

Whose analysis? Fareed Zakaria's or Husain Haqqani's? You conveniently skipped over the core of Haqqani's analysis "as reported by" Zakaria. So, it is your belief that Haqqani is "completely incorrect"? And, what conventional wars has the PA won? Kargil?
 
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Do you deny that there is a lot of sympathy within the ranks of the PA for the Taliban?
Yes.
Don't you think it is possible that this is a genuine problem for the PA and partially responsible for the sitution having gotten so out of hand?
It is a problem that is getting out of control, but not because of 'sympathies' for the Taliban.
You keep brushing off this idea as not worthy of comment. Until the true causes of a problem are diagnosed, an effective solution to the problem will not be found. Methinks TOPGUN doth protest too much ......
You cannot find the true causes of the problem while insisting on vilifying the PA since it provides a simplistic and singular target. Though I can understand the desire to do so since its easier than trying to comprehend and resolve a multilayered problem.

The problems are complex, and involve a whole gamut of issues constraining the military - resource crunch, refugee crises, the inability of the GoP to come up with a comprehensive COIN strategy, or even a strategy to take care of existing IDP's and start reconstruction.

And even if there was a strategy, the resource crunch limits how much of it can be implemented.
 
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Even if one considers that Fareed Zakaria's statement that PA has lost all conventional wars is incorrect, it will be right to say that PA has not won any of the wars. If PA claims that denying victory to enemy in a conventional war is itself a victory, then its another story all together.

Coming back to the thread topic, the following allegation by Haqqani is hard hitting. I guess, this is what is happening even right now.

The book concludes by telling how Pakistan's military has used the threat from these militant groups to maintain power, delegitimize the civilian government and—most crucial of all—keep aid flowing from the United States.
 
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Whose analysis? Fareed Zakaria's or Husain Haqqani's? You conveniently skipped over the core of Haqqani's analysis "as reported by" Zakaria. So, it is your belief that Haqqani is "completely incorrect"?
And, what conventional wars has the PA won? Kargil?
The statement I quoted was Zakaria's wasn't it.

Kargil wasn't a 'war', it was a LoC conflict that the Pakistani Military did not even participate in completely.

India and Pakistan have had 3 wars, 1948, 1965 and 1971 - barring 1971, the best India can claim is a stalemate.

Haqqani has always been anti-Army, currently his job description includes trying to paint a distinction between the previous government of Musharraf and the current Zardari government, to try and justify the US pumping in more aid.

And yes, I also disagree with parts of Haqqani's analysis along with the context in which he describes Pakistan's association with the Taliban.
 
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Coming back to the thread topic, the following allegation by Haqqani is hard hitting. I guess, this is what is happening even right now.

Do you have any evidence that this is happening right now, or is this just speculation on your part?
 
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That is an absurdly simplistic and flawed analysis.

Please see my last few posts in the Acts of Terrorism thread about how the situation changed in Swat after the ANP led government came in.

Oh please, I'm aware of how the situation in SWAT has unravelled. Under the continuous barrage of attacks by Taliban in Swat, due to ill-equipped police and para-military which were unable to battle Taliban attacks and with no help coming from PA, led to the situation where the pro-secular ANP govt. had to go for peace with TNSM to stop further bleeding of Swat people, despite people of Swat hating the Taliban.

If PA and GoP had acted earlier, this situation would have never arise. Please see the striking coincidence of Hillary clintons statement of abdicating power to Taliban and sudden offense of PA against the Taliban in Dir, Buner and now Swat. If it were not for the pressure from US (and also perhaps due to Zardari's US visit, where he had to show some action against Taliban), I doubt we would have seen this offense.

Well, in the end, that is my view, simplistic and flawed, you may say:enjoy:.
 
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Something on the same lines:

Talibanisation & Musharraf
By Shehryar Mazari
Wednesday, 06 May, 2009 | 09:56 AM PST |

While most people rightly blame Ziaul Haq for the rise of religious extremism in Pakistan, Musharraf’s role in bringing about Talibanisation in the country has been greatly overlooked.

Three decades ago Zia Haq chose the Hezb-i-Islami leader, Gulbadin Hikmatyar, as his favoured successor to Soviet rule in Afghanistan. After Zia’s death, the security establishment disenchanted with Hikmatyar’s lack of success replaced him in 1994 with the recently discovered Taliban. The Taliban’s seizure of Kabul in 1996 provided a boost for Pakistan’s security establishment. It provided Pakistan a foothold in Afghanistan and much-desired strategic regional depth to counter India.

Following the 9/11 attack in the US by Al Qaeda which was being sheltered by the Taliban Musharraf was forced to disown the Taliban regime. However, within days he announced on TV ‘I have done everything for the … Taliban when the whole world was against them….We are trying our best to come out of this critical situation without any damage to Afghanistan and the Taliban.’

Shortly afterwards, when the Taliban were ousted by the US-led invasion, Musharraf allowed tens of thousands of Taliban to enter Pakistan’s tribal belt, believing that opposing them would sideline Pakistan from the regional power game in Afghanistan. What was not revealed then was that a large number of Al Qaeda militants had used this opportunity to stealthily move into Pakistan as well. However, fearing direct US intervention, Musharraf vocally denied their existence within Pakistan.

Perhaps he imagined that the extremists would remain quiescent in Pakistan’s mountainous borderlands, but this was not to be. The military dictator’s personal agenda soon came in the way: Having flouted the constitution by coup d’état, Musharraf, like previous military dictators, became desperate for legal protection. This legal cover could only be provided by a compliant parliament.

Misusing his powers as army chief, Musharraf used his agencies to ensure that the 2002 election was rigged in Sindh and Punjab against the PPP and PML-N. This led to a rise of a motley bunch of politicians under the façade of the PML-Q. However, real damage was done in the NWFP and Balochistan, where the security agencies ensured the success of the religio-political alliance of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal. As part of an understanding, Fazlur Rehman ensured that the MMA’s newly elected members of parliament united with the PML-Q to pass the 17th Amendment, legitimising all Musharraf’s unconstitutional acts.

Perceiving the two popular political parties — the PPP and PML-N — as a threat to his power, Musharraf became an inadvertent hostage to the MMA’s blackmailing. His backtracking in 2006 on repealing the Hudood Ordinances was just one example. The seats MMA ‘won’ in the National Assembly gave it serious clout in national affairs. Worse was that it also dominated the NWFP and Balochistan governments. The MMA government of NWFP moved quickly to impose a Taliban-like agenda. In a short space of time, the MMA produced a fertile environment for the spread of religious militancy throughout the NWFP and parts of Balochistan.

While the Taliban were perceived as essential to future Afghan policy, similar leniency was also applied to militant groups habitually infiltrating the Kashmir ceasefire line. The post-9/11 international crackdown on terrorism had given Musharraf much cause for worry. Initially he went on the offensive, proclaiming these militants valiant freedom fighters — in other words ‘good jihadists’ vs Al Qaeda, the ‘bad jihadists’.

However, the international pressure became too much to bear. Consequently, many of these groups were officially banned by Islamabad, and thus were forced to go underground and operate under different names. It became a game of smoke and mirrors. Every now and then a militant leader would be placed under house arrest and then released a few days later. Militant groups would be officially condemned on television while their workers continued to collect donations under different guises. While the Musharraf regime kept up appearances with the West, it felt impelled to maintain a working relationship with the MMA for its political survival. It also continued its linkages with the numerous politico-religious militant groupings in pursuit of its strategy for Afghanistan and India.

The MMA’s policy of providing succour to religious militancy, combined with Musharraf’s strategy of benign indifference, at best, towards the Taliban and Kashmiri militants, led to a perfect jihadi storm. Provided freedom, the militant groups gained momentum and developed linkages with each other and in some cases with Al Qaeda itself.

Soon the Taliban, with its new allies, spread its tentacles from Waziristan to the rest of Fata and later to Swat and beyond. Moreover, some of the militant groupings active in Kashmir had by now joined up with these transnational jihadist forces. Talibanisation had begun in earnest.

The Taliban crisis is a direct result of Musharraf’s legacy. For self-preservation he deliberately weakened the secular political structure, replacing it with a political environment which proved extremely conducive for religio-political militant groups that now threaten the existence of Jinnah’s Pakistan — ironically created as a refuge for the subcontinent’s Muslims.

It is time for a rethink. In this post-Musharraf scenario one can appreciate our security establishment’s preoccupation with external threats; that is their job after all. Nonetheless, why relentlessly pursue a policy to defend Pakistan externally which may, in itself, ultimately lead to the country’s destruction from within? Yes, hostility from neighbouring countries is a disturbing reality. But need we continue with a bungled policy which has led to destruction from within and failure without; Afghanistan remains a troubled dream and Kashmir a hopeless mirage.

It is time for an open discourse between parliamentary leaders and the security establishment to find a better solution to our problems. The protection of Pakistan’s river resources from encroachment is of vital importance; the survival of millions depends upon these rivers. However, this begs the question: if Pakistan disappears under the onslaught of religiosity, what use will all this water be? So, no matter how serious the water issue may be, it should, along with Kashmir, yield to a more pressing concern.

Obviously today’s most burning issue is the Talibanisation of large swathes of our country from where it appears to be spreading day by day, night by night. There is little point in berating the culprit. Recently in a foreign interview Musharraf offered his presidential services to save Pakistan from ‘self-destruction’. He is obviously delusional.

And the solution? All civil society can do is raise its voice as loudly as possible; the best the parliamentarians can do is pass sensible legislation; and the best the government can do is issue prudent instructions (which may or may not be obeyed). In the end, the answer can only lie with the army. Let us hope it now fulfills its primary responsibility to the people of Pakistan.
 
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Do you have any evidence that this is happening right now, or is this just speculation on your part?

Nope, just fill up the blanks on what Haqqani said about the PA modus operandi.

The book concludes by telling how Pakistan's military has used the threat from these militant groups to maintain power, delegitimize the civilian government and—most crucial of all—keep aid flowing from the United States.

I fill up the blanks for you

Militant groups - Taliban
Maintain Power - It still acts as main power (behind the curtains)
Delegitimize civilian govt. - Not happened right now (has happened many times before), but cannot be ruled out.
Keep aid flowing - any doubts here?.
 
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Oh please, I'm aware of how the situation in SWAT has unravelled. Under the continuous barrage of attacks by Taliban in Swat, due to ill-equipped police and para-military which were unable to battle Taliban attacks and with no help coming from PA, led to the situation where the pro-secular ANP govt. had to go for peace with TNSM to stop further bleeding of Swat people, despite people of Swat hating the Taliban.
No - then you have understood nothing about the situation. Read the statements of the DG ISPR and the Governor NWFP that I posted on that thread - the PA was under orders to not initiate any attacks unless attacked itself, orders issued by the GoNWFP. This is why you would have Taliban camped in fields within sight of the PA, who would extort and do whatever, and the PA could do nothing but watch, since they were not being attacked.

The peace deal that the ANP initiated after it came into power squandered every advantage the PA had fought for in Swat in phase I of the the Swat operation.

If PA and GoP had acted earlier, this situation would have never arise.
That is the point that you refuse to understand, despite claims to the contrary - it was not the PA's job to act unilaterally. The peace deals were initiated by the GoNWFP with support from the GoP and the Army's hands were tied after that.

The responsibility for acting or not acting lay entirely with the GoNWFP and GoP. Even until yesterday the GoNWFP was holding onto the hope that peace in Swat could be salvaged. Making policy decisions and when to cancel or start a peace deal is not the Army's business.
 
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Nope, just fill up the blanks on what Haqqani said about the PA modus operandi.

I fill up the blanks for you

Militant groups - Taliban
Maintain Power - It still acts as main power (behind the curtains)
Delegitimize civilian govt. - Not happened right now (has happened many times before), but cannot be ruled out.
Keep aid flowing - any doubts here?.
Just because you fill in the blanks does not mean you did so correctly, you did so to adapt the narrative to fit your perceptions.

The book concludes by telling how Pakistan's military has used the threat from these militant groups to maintain power, delegitimize the civilian government and—most crucial of all—keep aid flowing from the United States.

ANY evidence to support the above, or are we looking at speculation?

Secondly, is he referring to a particular General as having pursued these policies, or was this an institutional policy in place in the PA? How does he arrive at his conclusions?

Haqqani's opinion here is nothing but unsubstantiated, sensationalist generalization.
 
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