PAF's Exercises from around the World.

[nomi007]

A full squadron of J-10s from what i have heard.... i understand the J-10s gave a rough time to their own J-11s in a local exercise.

i was expecting su-30mkk

 

[Indus Falcon]

i was expecting su-30mkk

J11 is the Chinese equivalent. In terms of capability, it's nothing less than an MKK

 

[Munir]

@Windjammer When BVR is important then I expected that range, fuel, hardpoints, size radar, IRST, ECM size etc start to make more impact. The size of the J11 is clear and the fact that it has no wetpoints shows the size of internal fuel capacity... Then the radar... And if it can fire lots of bvr before getting closer...

 

[Windjammer]

@Munir, one of my customer just happens to be a former RAF Tornado RIO, he actively participated in the first Gulf war, you can be sure we have some interesting conversations. He's of opinion that since India/Pakistan share common border with a little flight time, it leaves little envelope for the BVR scenario to to be executed in it's full potential , in fact AWACS from both sides will be struggling to monitor/distinguish the incoming and outgoing traffic.
On a side note, he showed me a 20mm shell from Tornadoes gun, unbelievable as what happens to it even when it hits sand.

 

[Indus Falcon]

@Munir, one of my customer just happens to be a former RAF Tornado RIO, he actively participated in the first Gulf war, you can be sure we have some interesting conversations. He's of opinion that since India/Pakistan share common border with a little flight time, it leaves little envelope for the BVR scenario to to be executed in it's full potential , in fact AWACS from both sides will be struggling to monitor/distinguish the incoming and outgoing traffic.
On a side note, he showed me a 20mm shell from Tornadoes gun, unbelievable as what happens to it even when it hits sand.

On the AWACS, I would beg to differ. From what I have seen first hand, It's not just about blips, with Link16 they even know the amount of fuel and ammo an aircraft is carrying.

Secondly IFF clearly distinguishes between friendlies and bogeys. Even if the IFF on board an aircraft fails the AWACS knows who is who.

AWACS have come a long way from just being a flying radar into full C3I stations. Anything that can be done on the ground can be done by them.

 

[untitled]

......
On a side note, he showed me a 20mm shell from Tornadoes gun, unbelievable as what happens to it even when it hits sand.

Are you sure it was a 20mm shell ?

This was the gun on the Tornado ADV

 

[Indus Falcon]

On another note can someone confirm / deny something I heard; that the J11 has a better radar than the MKK ?

Are you sure it was a 20mm shell ?

This was the gun on the Tornado ADV

27mm, +/- same thing

 

[Windjammer]

Are you sure it was a 20mm shell ?

This was the gun on the Tornado ADV

I believe Tornado has a 27mm gun, but the shell belonged to an F-16, which flew past them at a DISTANCE of no more than some 25 feet.

 

[untitled]

......

27mm, +/- same thing

Beg to disagree
27 mm approaches to 30 mm

Even the German 7.92×57mm ammo was sometimes classified as 8mm

.......

BTW was just messing with Windy

 

[Munir]

@Munir, one of my customer just happens to be a former RAF Tornado RIO, he actively participated in the first Gulf war, you can be sure we have some interesting conversations. He's of opinion that since India/Pakistan share common border with a little flight time, it leaves little envelope for the BVR scenario to to be executed in it's full potential , in fact AWACS from both sides will be struggling to monitor/distinguish the incoming and outgoing traffic.
On a side note, he showed me a 20mm shell from Tornadoes gun, unbelievable as what happens to it even when it hits sand.

I think it is a very complex environment. Jammers, ground radars, Awacs, SAM's all over the place. There is hardly comparable scenario with indeed low BVR time. I think this is one of the reason that PAF expects two BVR on JF17 more then enough.

About impact of shells in sand. Even impact of non explosive mk82 is terrifying... About impacts... Just look at A10 spreading bullets over Taleban... Besides the direct hits just imagine what happens to everyone in a few km near the target... You maybe now understand that uranium is not only killing to the target but for a very long time to the surrounding...

 

[nomi007]

J11 is the Chinese equivalent. In terms of capability, it's nothing less than an MKK

no j-11 is su-27 copy
j-16 is su-30 copy
so don't compare su-30 with j-11

 

[Windjammer]

Beg to disagree
27 mm approaches to 30 mm

Even the German 7.92×57mm ammo was sometimes classified as 8mm

.......

BTW was just messing with Windy

Talking about Tornado, i got mixed up, the gentleman was on a monitoring tower witnessing some NATO/European strafing exercise, the F-16 after doing it's run was asked to do a fly by, it flew past them at some 25 feet distance nearly knocking them off their feet.

 

[Munir]

@Windjammer The trainings are here. Vliehors in the Netherlands.

 

[Dazzler]

On another note can someone confirm / deny something I heard; that the J11 has a better radar than the MKK ?



27mm, +/- same thing

j-11 has indigenous radar (nriet/ wuxi), much better than original MK radar (n010 series phazotron, lacked several standard features)

 

[nomi007]