PAF locked on 9 shoot only two...PAF official....0n 27 Feb....

[Myth_buster_1]

Hi,

And that is what your knowledge level is---" french have already shared inside and out-----"and based on that the enemy knows everything---"---based on that assumption---I can only say wow---.

hi,

and your knowledge is from????????

 

[The Accountant]

And by the way Mach 3 is not maxi,u, speed it could attain, its 3.2 . After SR71 Black Bird Mig25 Foxbat is worlds fastest and highest (near space) flying aircraft.

No man its 2.8 and that even not recommended as the recommended speed for interception is 2.5. Flying beyond 2.5 will put much stress on engine and will reduce life whereas flying beyond 2.8 will destroy engine permanently so it was not allowed.

Your numbers for service ceiling is also wrong. Armed Mig 25 could go only upto 79K feet whereas unarmed could go upto 89000 feet.

Don't compare SR-71 with Mig 21. Both are entirely different class. SR 71 could cruise at Mach 3.2 it means its normal speed was 3.2 whereas Mig 25 was no more than 2.3.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Who are you to teach me aerodynamics and aircraft designing ? How many aircraft you have designed ?

Yes limitation of top speed applies to all aircraft but your claim that Mig 25 entered Pakistani airspace at Mach 3 is stupid and unrealistic. Furthermore, your claim that Mig 25 could not be taken down by F16 is also stupid and unrealistic.

There were different tactics prepared to counter mig 25 and one of was to fly under the Mig 25 straight up and loose the side winder at maximum height. Having difference of 13 kms (between max altitude of both aircraft) and with range of 19 kms there was a possibility that f16 can take down mig 25. However, to achieve this F16 has to come close to Mig undetected which was really difficult and whenever PAF tried to engage Mig 25 they leave the area. It was never the case that Mig 25 was flying freely in Pakistani airspace and PAF was watching it over the radars. They did violations but never accepted the challenge which is was common before arrival of BVR in sub-continent.

To be honest, PAF had no answer to MIG-25 just like IAF had no answer to our F-104 back in 60s.
PAF F-16s were only equipped with sidewinder and even if they had stanched some Aim-7 it was still not enough since by the time F-16s were in air to intercept Mig-25 they were already gone and could also out run both missiles. All it had to do was shot up at 45 degree angle and both missiles would bleed out its energy since missiles motor run for only seconds.
Mig-25 was really fast but had a maneuverability of an elephant. With AIM-120 induction in PAF, Mig-25 would be dead every time it would come in its range.

 

[Raider 21]

Even if what you say is true, it painfully only highlights powerlessness of PAF against India’s Mig25 - that’s for a grand total of 25 odd hopeless years (1981 - 2006) for PAF.



9 locked if true and one brought down.

God knows how many PAF aircrafts were locked by IAF.

Yes it is true. The Viper was about 1-1.5 nm on tail with the Foxbat, the Foxbat had no clue he had a Viper sitting tail on passive until ARM was engaged and his RWR kicked in. Sadly no kill or engagement was achieved as no orders were given.

DOnt use sentences starting from IFs and BUTs, COULD, WOULD etc (e.g. if auntie had bals she would have been an uncle). Eagle has done a very realistic and pragmatic analysis. IF it had happened then what WOULD have happened is pointless to look back and comment. Luxury of hind sight analysis while sitting in your cozy drawing room is not available to a pilot sitting in a cockpit of a fighter plane flying over enemy territory.


Whatever you are saying is possible but not logical or probable. Whenever a MIG 25 enters an air space it does at 90000 feet plus height and mach 3 plus speed. The rumour is that it could beat most of the missile of that time when it was built. It holds 19 world records of performance. F16 was neither designed for such performance nor ever used. What you are claiming is nothing short of a miracle (but i strongly believe that if any air force can pull a miracle its PAF).

I meant it for that particular scenario and time. And that too in an A model during embargo years.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Okay so what were the serial numbers of those missiles, when the chassis of PAF Amraam missile was displayed by IAF. First thing Pakistan media tried to do was, prove that it American missile sold Taiwan. Later based on its serial number it was proved, that it was indeed sold to the PAF.

However when ever PAF displayed Mig 21's missiles , they have carefully kept the serial number of the missiles hidden..why?

They don't have to disclose shit
remember, it is Indian's claim to shoot down F 16. The onus on them to reveal the serial number of the missile which supposedly shoot down the PAF jet. They do keep record of which missile went on which hard point. Don't they!!
So reveal , we dare you IAF.

There was / is history that PAF chiefs don't want war....with India..

In past our air chief informed India about our attack,,,,


They deliberately not acquiring jets....

If what you say is true, then it is very sad. Why such Air Chief existed and why they were not prosecuted!!
And if they were doing out of "cowardice" for not starting the war with India, then that's prove the points I and @MastanKhan made. Even this time PAF chiefs' chickened out. They could have given IAF a bloody face, it could not recovered from. But only did the symbolic.

 

[Maarkhoor]

If what you say is true, then it is very sad. Why such Air Chief existed and why they were not prosecuted!!
And if they were doing out of "cowardice" for not starting the war with India, then that's prove the points I and @MastanKhan made. Even this time PAF chiefs' chickened out. They could have given IAF a bloody face, it could not recovered from. But only did the symbolic.

This time Govt involves as well,

During Kargill war we locked on Indian jets but permission denied....
@MastanKhan

 

[Mrc]

Hi,

Mutual assured peace is put forward by a weak mindset---.

Enemy is not hell bent on MAD---.

Enemy knows that many a pakistanis are sellout---and they will keep working on it---.

Nawaz did 80% of the job for them---they will find someone to do the other 20%---.




Hi,

Excuses young man all excuses---.



Hi,

Please talk intelligent---. Thank you.



Hi,

That is the truth and nothing but the truth---so help me God---.

In that case why just shoot down aircraft?? why also not hit the ground targets that were intentionally missed?? And than why to wait for retaliation ? Why not preemptively destroy most if not all means of retaliation in same go? ?? ? U have ability to do so. ..

But than again .. Is it a joke.?? . . sounds very right after half a bottle I think

Peace deserves another chance on pretext that they may learn not to fck with u especially when casualties were 4 trees


. .if they don't....

Well I do think modi will give u another chance

 

[Mace]

Yes it is true. The Viper was about 1-1.5 nm on tail with the Foxbat, the Foxbat had no clue he had a Viper sitting tail on passive until ARM was engaged and his RWR kicked in. Sadly no kill or engagement was achieved as no orders were given.


I meant it for that particular scenario and time. And that too in an A model during embargo years.

F16 could have covered 1.5Nm gap in few seconds since it was undetected and possibly could have switched to a gun kill. Maybe the PAF pilot jumped the gun too soon.

Mig25s were flying well beyond the agreed 10k border buffer zone above Pak cities. PAF was well within in rights to bring them down. I find it hard to believe that PAF would let go of a chance like that.

 

[Raider 21]

F16 could have covered 1.5Nm gap in few seconds since it was undetected and possibly could have switched to a gun kill. Maybe the PAF pilot jumped the gun too soon.

Mig25s were flying well beyond the agreed 10k border buffer zone above Pak cities. PAF was well within in rights to bring them down. I find it hard to believe that PAF would let go of a chance like that.

It was a long time ago, and there were higher orders to not engage. Either way the Viper cause the MiG to run away.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Yes really

Those planes would have fallen in indian territory resulting in one of 2 outcomes

1 Indians cud have just denied they were shot down like su 3o. This is less likely.

And in such case it does not matter that u shot as they know u locked and cud have shot.

2 videos of burning wrecks would have showed up on social media and india would have no choice but to respond

I think u have 0 comprehension what escalation means between 2 nuclear powers


While modi might as well not leave us any other choice but to go that path are u fcking out of your drunkan mind ?? U want us to nuke India for 4 trees??

Even if india blinked (less likely as modi is another retard) it would have been an absolute diplomatic disaster for pak...

Go back to enjoying your life as a 3rd tier US citizen why do u want to poison the climate and risk it all? ???


Enough has been done . Warning has been given... if they choose to ignore it....u will have no other choice and any outcome would be justified ..


U cannot justify such response in 2019 scenario

Fact : Indians claims surgical strikes before Feb 26, 19.
Fact : On 26 Feb 19, they sent their Jets to bomb Pakistan. Not just Azad Kashmir, but Pakistan, a clear declaration of war.
Fact: On 27th Feb 19, Pakistan was already at war after IAF airstrikes in Balakot, Pakistan.
Fact : On 26th World knew India was the aggressor, it announced it to the world. And that Pakistan was just responding to their aggression in self defence.
Fact: Pakistan has all the legitimacy to hot pursue and destroy the Indian jets on 26th Feb 19, in defence. Even if they cross the LOC. If they didn't bother to worry about borders and intrusion in to Pakistani Air Space, why were we respecting the Indian Air Space!!

You see my friend, you can make any excuse you want, show bravado, or prove that the answer given was befitting. But the fact remain, PAF shied away as usual. IAF and IA knows it that it is our weakness. Giving your weaknesses to your enemy which is hell bound to destroy you, is not a good idea.
As for nuclear scenario. That is the biggest casualty of the Feb exchanges. Pakistan's nuclear deterrent is now made redundant by the Indians.
They know that they can intrude and attack Pakistan anytime they want without risk of starting a nuclear war and without befitting response from Pakistan.
Please don't argue about these facts, you have already admitted that Pakistanis didn't shoot down all the planes locked by PAF. That is the topic of this thread.
Arguments for the sake of it are waste of time, when facts are looking at our faces.

 

[Mace]

It was a long time ago, and there were higher orders to not engage. Either way the Viper cause the MiG to run away.

Indian Mig25s were for recon only. It was designed to outrun western aircraft and missiles.

 

[crankthatskunk]

This time Govt involves as well,

During Kargill war we locked on Indian jets but permission denied....
@MastanKhan

Thank you. That is the point me and @MastanKhan have been arguing since Feb 19, but some finding it difficult to understand. PAF and PA have always showed weaknesses to India. India is bold now. If we pay heed to their new chief's statements, he is already declaring that they would do more 26th Feb 19 attacks on Pakistan.
Therefore, it is right to ask those who think PAF did a great job on 27th Feb 19, what is achieved by the daring daytime strikes, if you were indecisive at the crucial time to hurt your enemy who has already declared war on you!!
Your comments also show that this is not the first time it is done. Kargill war was a war, wasn't it!!!

 

[PakShaheen79]

Fact : Indians claims surgical strikes before Feb 26, 19.
Fact : On 26 Feb 19, they sent their Jets to bomb Pakistan. Not just Azad Kashmir, but Pakistan, a clear declaration of war.
Fact: On 27th Feb 19, Pakistan was already at war after IAF airstrikes in Balakot, Pakistan.
Fact : On 26th World knew India was the aggressor, it announced it to the world. And that Pakistan was just responding to their aggression in self defence.
Fact: Pakistan has all the legitimacy to hot pursue and destroy the Indian jets on 26th Feb 19, in defence. Even if they cross the LOC. If they didn't bother to worry about borders and intrusion in to Pakistani Air Space, why were we respecting the Indian Air Space!!

You see my friend, you can make any excuse you want, show bravado, or prove that the answer given was befitting. But the fact remain, PAF shied away as usual. IAF and IA knows it that it is our weakness. Giving your weaknesses to your enemy which is hell bound to destroy you, is not a good idea.
As for nuclear scenario. That is the biggest casualty of the Feb exchanges. Pakistan's nuclear deterrent is now made redundant by the Indians.
They know that they can intrude and attack Pakistan anytime they want without risk of starting a nuclear war and without befitting response from Pakistan.
Please don't argue about these facts, you have already admitted that Pakistanis didn't shoot down all the planes locked by PAF. That is the topic of this thread.
Arguments for the sake of it are waste of time, when facts are looking at our faces.

My first and last reply in this threat to both parties

SunTzu said "Pick the only wars which you are certain to win".

FACT: In 2001, US with 1 trillion USD surplus budget started a war; In hubris it started another one in 2003. Both times against countries which were too weak (More weaker than the US as Pakistan is to India comparatively) and look where these wars landed Washington. Every year they survive after increasing their national debt ceiling. This is what WAR did to the US economy.

What could have happened if PAF choose to hit those 9 aircraft ... I leave the conclusion to you guys. Thanks.

 

[crankthatskunk]

My first and last reply in this threat to both parties

SunTzu said "Pick the only wars which you are certain to win".

FACT: In 2001, US with 1 trillion USD surplus budget started a war; In hubris it started another one in 2003. Both times against countries which were too weak (More weaker than the US as Pakistan is to India comparatively) and look where these wars landed Washington. Every year they survive after increasing their national debt ceiling. This is what WAR did to the US economy.

What could have happened if PAF choose to hit those 9 aircraft ... I leave the conclusion to you guys. Thanks.

Agreed. The only difference is that when you go in to the enemy territory with pre declared promise that you will have no other choice but to respond and attack India after their aggression. Why would you just slap them, and not leave their face bloody!!
What you are professing is another word for "cowardice". We will do it, only this far, because if we go little further there would be war.
War is inevitable, Indians are preparing for it. Pakistan keep hiding as long as they want, war is coming to them.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Thank you. That is the point me and @MastanKhan have been arguing since Feb 19, but some finding it difficult to understand. PAF and PA have always showed weaknesses to India. India is bold now. If we pay heed to their new chief's statements, he is already declaring that they would do more 26th Feb 19 attacks on Pakistan.
Therefore, it is right to ask those who think PAF did a great job on 27th Feb 19, what is achieved by the daring daytime strikes, if you were indecisive at the crucial time to hurt your enemy who has already declared war on you!!
Your comments also show that this is not the first time it is done. Kargill war was a war, wasn't it!!!

It is only PAF higher commands and Govt, Please don't include P.A.

regards,