PAF brings its brass back in the air.

[Thorough Pro]

That is not only worrisome but reflects incompetence. Being ignorant of your equipment capabilities results in sub-optimal utilization of an expensive platforms capabilities and thus lower performance and risk of losing the battle/war. How can that happen when most of the top ranking officials are fighter pilots themselves?

That's the reason some high ranking PAF officials were completely astonished once they realised the real capabilities of Block-52s once it was used in ground strike missions.... as the source said, it was way beyond their expectations.

 

[Viper0011.]

used F-16s would provide a quick, cheap boost to the firepower with minimum training, logistics and planning headache.

Used -16 with AN-APG 68 (even without the V-9 that's in the block 52), gives you an insane capability to tackle any 4th generation jet the Indians or anyone else has. Its BVR suite can even keep a 4.5 gen jet at bay. But once you go wvr, a better pilot wins. I've said it before, the PAF should get USAF's retiring -16's (which are already close to block 52 standards, but a little below what Pakistan or the UAE got). The USAF is replacing these -16's with the -35, so they didn't need to do further upgrades. These jets upgraded at $ 20-30 million a pop, give you significant on-par capability overnight and for a seriously reduced price tag!!!

 

[Donatello]

Used -16 with AN-APG 68 (even without the V-9 that's in the block 52), gives you an insane capability to tackle any 4th generation jet the Indians or anyone else has. Its BVR suite can even keep a 4.5 gen jet at bay. But once you go wvr, a better pilot wins. I've said it before, the PAF should get USAF's retiring -16's (which are already close to block 52 standards, but a little below what Pakistan or the UAE got). The USAF is replacing these -16's with the -35, so they didn't need to do further upgrades. These jets upgraded at $ 20-30 million a pop, give you significant on-par capability overnight and for a seriously reduced price tag!!!

PAF would be looking at F-16s with at least 12-15 years of life in them......USAF ones would hardly give you 5-10

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

bloody hell - if i were air chief i'd be a huge burden on the national exchequer...i'd demand one free sortie per day, preferably on one of those newer block F16s

i'd probably be court martial for being selfish

in this case - it's a great news. The top brass gents can regularly interact with the younger pilots/instructors/tecchies. It's good for morale, it's leading from the front.

 

[Viper0011.]

PAF would be looking at F-16s with at least 12-15 years of life in them......USAF ones would hardly give you 5-10

Depends on which ones from which USAF/ANG squadrons. You could say that about majority of the jets, but not all are super used. And if Pakistan buys these, they'll probably buy 20 or 40 (1 - 2 squadrons). You should be able to find less used 20-40 jets I am sure

 

[Pakistanisage]

Used -16 with AN-APG 68 (even without the V-9 that's in the block 52), gives you an insane capability to tackle any 4th generation jet the Indians or anyone else has. Its BVR suite can even keep a 4.5 gen jet at bay. But once you go wvr, a better pilot wins. I've said it before, the PAF should get USAF's retiring -16's (which are already close to block 52 standards, but a little below what Pakistan or the UAE got). The USAF is replacing these -16's with the -35, so they didn't need to do further upgrades. These jets upgraded at $ 20-30 million a pop, give you significant on-par capability overnight and for a seriously reduced price tag!!!

I don't think you understand the real issue here. Just because US has thousands of these old F-16's does not mean they would be willing to sell them to Pakistan. They would rather retire them and park them in " Aircraft Junkyard " in Arizona then to sell them to Pakistan. We purchased just 13 used F-16's from Royal Jordanian Air Force and it took an act of Congress to get that approved. what makes you think they will sell used F-16's to Pakistan.

If the US decided to sell their F-16's to Pakistan, we will gladly take 200 to 300 off their hands in a jiffy but that is not going to happen because US won't sell them to us.

 

[Donatello]

I don't think you understand the real issue here. Just because US has thousands of these old F-16's does not mean they would be willing to sell them to Pakistan. They would rather retire them and park them in " Aircraft Junkyard " in Arizona then to sell them to Pakistan. We purchased just 13 used F-16's from Royal Jordanian Air Force and it took an act of Congress to get that approved. what makes you think they will sell used F-16's to Pakistan.

If the US decided to sell their F-16's to Pakistan, we will gladly take 200 to 300 off their hands in a jiffy but that is not going to happen because US won't sell them to us.

Let's be realistic here, PAF would never go for 200 F-16s. However, with USA asking Pakistan for alliance against ISIS, with Russia getting involved heavily in Syria and the fact that Russia is opening up to Pakistan, USA might as well entice Pakistan again, just like 1980s or 2001 when we got the BLK52s. Pakistan can always show, that look, we have experience using f-16s to bomb insurgents, and we can deploy a squadron or two in middle east.........plus Nawaz Sharif is due in Washington in october........

 

[Viper0011.]

I don't think you understand the real issue here. Just because US has thousands of these old F-16's does not mean they would be willing to sell them to Pakistan. They would rather retire them and park them in " Aircraft Junkyard " in Arizona then to sell them to Pakistan. We purchased just 13 used F-16's from Royal Jordanian Air Force and it took an act of Congress to get that approved. what makes you think they will sell used F-16's to Pakistan.

If the US decided to sell their F-16's to Pakistan, we will gladly take 200 to 300 off their hands in a jiffy but that is not going to happen because US won't sell them to us.

I don't agree with your assessment to be honest. The US won't have an issue with Pakistan buying 40-50 used -16's.....specially when the US is going to try to include Pakistan against the ISIS coalition and your military will need equipment.

If you are asking for 100, 200 used -16's, I can understand how the US might say no due to the Indian factor as 100 -16's would pretty much negate the SU's in an attack scenario on Pakistan. 200 SU's attacking a country with about 170-190 -16's with AMRAAMS......yea, NOT going to happen. Over half the SU's won't get in properly or won't go back. So I understand a no in such a scenario due to India. But 40-60 or even 80, I think are much easily do-able.

The issue is your own leadership doesn't know what they want. I think they need to sit down and come up with a concrete strategy to be frank. You couldn't go ALL Chinese and the -16 makes perfect sense for now for the next 5-7 years. Till then, grow your JFT into a much more medium, multi-role platform, create a stealthy version out of it and in the future, get a couple of squadrons of -35's, supported by J-31 and / or JFT-Stealth in PAF. Outside of -16, -35 (near term and long term stealth needs), there isn't a viable alternative just ready to go.

@MastanKhan : any input from you? this is our favorite topic here (PAF's strategy), so I thought I'd add you to see what you'd have to say...

 

[Pakistanisage]

Let's be realistic here, PAF would never go for 200 F-16s. However, with USA asking Pakistan for alliance against ISIS, with Russia getting involved heavily in Syria and the fact that Russia is opening up to Pakistan, USA might as well entice Pakistan again, just like 1980s or 2001 when we got the BLK52s. Pakistan can always show, that look, we have experience using f-16s to bomb insurgents, and we can deploy a squadron or two in middle east.........plus Nawaz Sharif is due in Washington in october........

Any sale of Military Hardware to Pakistan has to be approved by US Congress and we do not have any friends in US Congress. Combined Israeli + Indian lobby is too strong in US Congress and usually work in tandem against Pakistani interests. ISIS or no ISIS, we have a hard time buying anything worth something from the US.

There usual excuse is it will mess up the military balance in the region which is euphemism for " we don't want to pi$$ off Indians ".

Besides , Pakistan needs to be careful buying anything from the US because of the " Kill Switch " Phenomenon and withholding of spare parts on a whim. What good are aircraft which we cannot use against the Indians because the US will withhold parts in case of war against Indians or worst use the so-called " Kill Switches " through the Satellites.

Pakistan determined long time ago that US is an unreliable source for weaponry because they use the sale of military hardware as an instrument of their foreign policy.

China and Russia are a lot more dependable source for such purchases.

 

[MastanKhan]

The issue is your own leadership doesn't know what they want. I think they need to sit down and come up with a concrete strategy to be frank. You couldn't go ALL Chinese and the -16 makes perfect sense for now for the next 5-7 years. Till then, grow your JFT into a much more medium, multi-role platform, create a stealthy version out of it and in the future, get a couple of squadrons of -35's, supported by J-31 and / or JFT-Stealth in PAF. Outside of -16, -35 (near term and long term stealth needs), there isn't a viable alternative just ready to go.

@MastanKhan : any input from you? this is our favorite topic here (PAF's strategy), so I thought I'd add you to see what you'd have to say...

H,

That is what Gen Collin Powell said over 10 years ago----" the problem is not from our side----the issues are with Pakistan---they cannot decide what they want---they keep changing the order---when they do that---we have to go back to the congress to get another approval and that takes time "---.

Viper---it is all about marketing---which Pakistan is extremely poor at---.

60-80 used F 16's with BLK 52 standards---would be a very welcome addition. Obama needs a lots of support in the region---military support---and for Pakistan it needs to project its position.

Personally---I do not agree with the statement of the ACM----he should have stated something about the purchase of a 4.5 gen aircraft---. That is the need of the hour---and not a 5th gen aircraft---. Maybe that might come in as a surprise.

 

[Donatello]

Any sale of Military Hardware to Pakistan has to be approved by US Congress and we do not have any friends in US Congress. Combined Israeli + Indian lobby is too strong in US Congress and usually work in tandem against Pakistani interests. ISIS or no ISIS, we have a hard time buying anything worth something from the US.

There usual excuse is it will mess up the military balance in the region which is euphemism for " we don't want to pi$$ off Indians ".

Besides , Pakistan needs to be careful buying anything from the US because of the " Kill Switch " Phenomenon and withholding of spare parts on a whim. What good are aircraft which we cannot use against the Indians because the US will withhold parts in case of war against Indians or worst use the so-called " Kill Switches " through the Satellites.

Pakistan determined long time ago that US is an unreliable source for weaponry because they use the sale of military hardware as an instrument of their foreign policy.

China and Russia are a lot more dependable source for such purchases.

How did the congress approve AH-1Z and 1000 Hellfires then? Even though an Apache order is pending from the Indians?

When it comes to USA getting it's job done, and if it needs Pakistan, then they will waiver anything....come what may...Indian lobby or not. And why would Israel be concerned?