PAF and US Weapons

[Nishan_101]

Although we only required 28 F-16s old ones with upgrades along with the C-130 Upgrades.

 

[Mav3rick]

Kayani and rao recently said these f 16s have no limitation to target US jets. so I would guess that "jammer'' part was wrong.

Kayani also said that the Military would shoot down any drones that enter our Airspace.........There has been over a dozen drone strikes after that and no drone was shot down.

 

[King Solomon]

Kayani also said that the Military would shoot down any drones that enter our Airspace.........There has been over a dozen drone strikes after that and no drone was shot down.

Shooting down drones would mean, immediately an armed, limited invasion of tribal areas of US will follow, which is not in pakistan's interests. Govt. and media will raise hue and cry that military takeover is immitent because army disobeyed parliament. In the end army leadership woud have to step down in discrace. Kayani is doing the right thing.

 

[Mav3rick]

Shooting down drones would mean, immediately an armed, limited invasion of tribal areas of US will follow, which is not in pakistan's interests. Govt. and media will raise hue and cry that military takeover is immitent because army disobeyed parliament. In the end army leadership woud have to step down in discrace. Kayani is doing the right thing.

Now let me tell you the actual events as they would occur, if the drones are shot down.....The US will back down as it knows very well that another war with an already failed but extremely arrogant Nuclear Power that has over 65% of her huge population reaching or already at military age is not really in their best interest. The US is well aware that we know we cannot win a war with US, actually nobody can, but what more do we have to lose if a war is impose on us by US as it means certain death....why not take as many of the bastards as possible which also means all their bases in the middle east and anywhere that is within our reach??

And honestly dude, tribal areas in Afghan side are far less populous then Pakistan.......If the US ever decides to invade the tribal areas, we won't even have to use the Army, our tribals will take care of the Americans themselves.....just like in Afghanistan.

Finally, while the Govt. may bow down to US demands, if the Military ever decides to actually protect her citizens, citizens would defend the military politically and their country with their lives, the Military only needs resolve to defend the country and citizens would be united behind it. Welcome to the real Pakistan!

 

[alimobin memon]

f16 can lock any indian except FGFA,Rafale .... now it is not about radar lock but about EW that cancels the lock.

 

[King Solomon]

Now let me tell you the actual events as they would occur, if the drones are shot down.....The US will back down as it knows very well that another war with an already failed but extremely arrogant Nuclear Power that has over 65% of her huge population reaching or already at military age is not really in their best interest. The US is well aware that we know we cannot win a war with US, actually nobody can, but what more do we have to lose if a war is impose on us by US as it means certain death....why not take as many of the bastards as possible which also means all their bases in the middle east and anywhere that is within our reach??

And honestly dude, tribal areas in Afghan side are far less populous then Pakistan.......If the US ever decides to invade the tribal areas, we won't even have to use the Army, our tribals will take care of the Americans themselves.....just like in Afghanistan.

Finally, while the Govt. may bow down to US demands, if the Military ever decides to actually protect her citizens, citizens would defend the military politically and their country with their lives, the Military only needs resolve to defend the country and citizens would be united behind it. Welcome to the real Pakistan!

Yes, pakistan has the capability to give hell to the US army - destroy all a/c and bases in Asia and middle east. However, what next? They will probably nuke Pakistan into oblivion. You don't just start a war due to your anger and emotion? US is provoking pakistan to enter a war. This is because the controller of US Army, Israel, wants it to. If you respond, Pakistan would be destroyed and would become battle ground for India, US, Israel, China, Russia etc. Eventually, one of them can win but ultimately Pakistan would be destroyed. The Generals are responding wisely by not giving in to the provocation and must be commended for their foresight.

 

[epinephrine]

Now let me tell you the actual events as they would occur, if the drones are shot down.....The US will back down as it knows very well that another war with an already failed but extremely arrogant Nuclear Power that has over 65% of her huge population reaching or already at military age is not really in their best interest. The US is well aware that we know we cannot win a war with US, actually nobody can, but what more do we have to lose if a war is impose on us by US as it means certain death....why not take as many of the bastards as possible which also means all their bases in the middle east and anywhere that is within our reach??

And honestly dude, tribal areas in Afghan side are far less populous then Pakistan.......If the US ever decides to invade the tribal areas, we won't even have to use the Army, our tribals will take care of the Americans themselves.....just like in Afghanistan.

Finally, while the Govt. may bow down to US demands, if the Military ever decides to actually protect her citizens, citizens would defend the military politically and their country with their lives, the Military only needs resolve to defend the country and citizens would be united behind it. Welcome to the real Pakistan!

probably US will carry out a sudden fast attack at our nuclear facilities

 

[Aamir Hussain]

This obsession with US amd our nukes is going to eventually kill us. It is defocussing us from doing what needs to be done right from 79', focus on development of the country, not necessarilly the development of its armed forces alone.

The drones are being used since Sallala attack, perdominantly to strike TTP/Al-Qaeda targets. Intel is being shared but action on the intel from Pakistani perspective, is being taken now by US. That is why one does not see the usual suspects comming out in the media and the streets at full throttle.

The cost of going after these elements for PA is huge, if it does on its own. There have been operations when PA got mauled badly. That is the nature of combat operations in the mountains (before our friends from the East jump on my statement). Things/circumstances can change rather quickly and friendlies can be surrounded easily and tables turned. Reinforcing friendly elements is some times next to impossible. Therefore, using drones in such a terrain coupled with onground intel is an ideal situation.

The hue and cry agianst the drones is raised, rather prompted, on this side of the border when Afghan Taliban elements are hit. That is not acceptable to the powers that may.

IMHO the US at one point or another needs to provide some sort of better drone technology to Pakistan than what was offered so that the ops. can be conducted by PA and ownership of the so called collatoral damage is shifted to PA (I am not sure if PA would want to take the blame so eagerly). This is the best tool available out there with push on development projects in the more settled areas of FATA.

 

[MastanKhan]

And honestly dude, tribal areas in Afghan side are far less populous then Pakistan.......If the US ever decides to invade the tribal areas, we won't even have to use the Army, our tribals will take care of the Americans themselves.....just like in Afghanistan.

Hi,

Have you ever hear the song by Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard---Pancho and Lefty---if not here it is----


"Pancho and Lefty" - Willie Nelson and Merle Haggard - YouTube

Just because the americans let you be---does not mean that they have grown weak----. It is not a good idea to seek the wrath of a super power---pakistanis need to get our of this suicide mentality---.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Most of the retohric on doing "This and that" to xyz is based upon minimum or faulty understanding of the mindest of our "enemy" if you want to call US that. Hence, we forget to focus on the goal and rather focus kicking the other guy in the shin instead of killing him. The danger in this tunnel vision based response is that after the kick on the shin, the other party has the option to go for the kill or maim/cripple the other party.

We need to rationally think through our objective and realise what is achievable or not given the present and the near future circumstances. We can all wish for x to be achieved is good and one must think big but thinking big with sound ratinoale behind is the need of the hour.

No one can take the chance of hitting Pakistani nuke facilties and gurantee total destruction of our nuclear arsanel -- this can be good Tom Clancy or Fredrick Forsyth novels but in reality, it has never been done to country with nuclear weapons. Therefore, going that route and chest thumping on that is a non starter from my perspective and mere rethoric.

Have we ever given it thought that why China, Russia, for that mattter Iran has never given MAN PADS type systems to Talibs fighting US forces in Afghanistan?? It would be a game changer and will be the death of Uncle Sam in the hills and plains of Afghanistan! Beacuase no one wants to take on the US and invite them into their own backyard! Otherwise, I am sure the Ruskies must be itching to do this and the Chinese can make US loose face in this part of the world.

These are saner countries that we are talking about (Yes I am including Iran in this -- they know what they can do and can not so they are being rational about choosing options).

Need to be clear on what the possible options and response would be on the US side in response to a downing of one of their Drones by AAA or PAF. The one response that every one expects (Seems like it, want!) is an attack on our nuclear facillities -- is not going to happen. What will happen, sanctions; withdrawal of all aid, shut down of IMF Bridge, and withdrawal of multilateral aid from most of the western countries. That too after a so called investigation into the downinig of the Drone and reasons. The OBL issues will agian be opened up with open acqusitions of state connivance etc. Basically put the heat on to build a case for punitive armed action in FATA. Off course we can all visualise what would be the response on this from our erstwhile friend India.

However, physically, there will be now boots on the ground for Commando type raids on Haqqani Network and other camps. PA, and PAF will than be in a bigger fix to retailate or not to. From then on, it would be an escalation type of scenario.so tht

Thereofore, I do not think so that we would be stupid enough to down a Drone without claiming a accidental firing.

My 2C worth.

 

[Pfpilot]

This obsession with US amd our nukes is going to eventually kill us. It is defocussing us from doing what needs to be done right from 79', focus on development of the country, not necessarilly the development of its armed forces alone.

The drones are being used since Sallala attack, perdominantly to strike TTP/Al-Qaeda targets. Intel is being shared but action on the intel from Pakistani perspective, is being taken now by US. That is why one does not see the usual suspects comming out in the media and the streets at full throttle.

The cost of going after these elements for PA is huge, if it does on its own. There have been operations when PA got mauled badly. That is the nature of combat operations in the mountains (before our friends from the East jump on my statement). Things/circumstances can change rather quickly and friendlies can be surrounded easily and tables turned. Reinforcing friendly elements is some times next to impossible. Therefore, using drones in such a terrain coupled with onground intel is an ideal situation.

The hue and cry agianst the drones is raised, rather prompted, on this side of the border when Afghan Taliban elements are hit. That is not acceptable to the powers that may.

IMHO the US at one point or another needs to provide some sort of better drone technology to Pakistan than what was offered so that the ops. can be conducted by PA and ownership of the so called collatoral damage is shifted to PA (I am not sure if PA would want to take the blame so eagerly). This is the best tool available out there with push on development projects in the more settled areas of FATA.

Drone strikes are a necessity of the kind of war being waged on Pakistan's western border. Against a guerrilla force, drone surveillance and strikes put the pressure on the enemy to never settle or risk death. Were this technology available to the US in Vietnam, they would have battered the Vietcong with far fewer casualties.

We cannot fight this war, if we do not accept that the drone strikes will continue and are required. The problem that always crops up when one talks of granting Pakistan access to these weapons is the one of our obsession with the eastern border. It is the unfortunate reality that virtually all Pakistani weapons procurement is used as a means to counter the potential Indian threat over a very real problem in the west. Whether provided drones are used over FATA or Kashmir is up for debate and Pakistan may indeed use them to exclusively target terrorists, but for the American government, it is too big of a risk. Simply put, with the rise of China, India's place as a balancing weight is too crucial for the US to risk angering it's great hope in Asia.

There is no easy way out of the mess we find ourselves in, but blaming the US, focuses on the wrong issues. There had been a genuine lack of effort on the part of the Pakistani leadership and military establishment to combat the terrorists for many years, under the flawed concept of "my terrorist is no danger to me"...that blew up in our face. In the end, we created and nurtured the beast that has ravaged our nation, the US only aided us in hastening our own demise. If we are to combat extremism, we must do so within the perimeters of the global political picture.

The Americans will continue to do what they like, either we go about our business or we risk losing our nation to the extremists. Economic and social development will always be the way forward, but in a nation where military needs and wants trump all, the priorities are usually skewed towards weapons systems.

 

[The_magnificent]

Pakistan cannot fight against USA or any of its allies not just because of US made weapons but because she simply can't... Pakistan's only threat is India and F-16 can do the trick for that with low price...

And by your logic, Flankers and Rafaels are useless against Russia and France..... What is the point?

How many Times russia attacked India ? Now compare it how many times USA is attacking pakistan.

Logic is simple that how much effective F16 is ?

 

[gambit]

Pakistan cannot fight against USA or any of its allies not just because of US made weapons but because she simply can't... Pakistan's only threat is India and F-16 can do the trick for that with low price...

And by your logic, Flankers and Rafaels are useless against Russia and France..... What is the point?

How many Times russia attacked India ? Now compare it how many times USA is attacking pakistan.

Logic is simple that how much effective F16 is ?

The operative phrase is 'non-provocative fighter'...

A Brief Look at the B-2’s Programme Early Life

...the F-20 fighter, which was a non-provocative air platform, meaning the plane is advanced enough to be sold to Americas' Allies but was vulnerable (designed as) to the most sophisticated US anti aircraft measures.

The idea behind the non-provocative concept was that US aerospace companies could sell off the shelf technologies to US Allies without compromising America's ability to respond if they turned hostile.

The concept have progressed beyond mere technicalities but to include doctrines, training, logistics, and preferably combat experience. What it mean is that even if the US made no technological progress beyond the current F-16 evolution, our force size, air doctrines, training programs, logistic capability, and combat experience alone would trump the potential adversary who was once our nominal ally even if he is equipped with our weapons in near scale or even technological parity.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan is inducting F16 because its engineers have training on operating F16 so we are reluctant to learn new technology

Its like our old dad who is used to Windows XP and he would not move to APPLE or any other operating system

Chinese weapons are superior

There is no basis to assert that Latest 2012 Chinese J10B is anything less that F16 Block 52
Only difference is may be the helmets but even that will be improved in Chinese fighters

 

[Developereo]

Perhaps I read the OP differently than most others.

The OP is not talking about fighting the US -- the concept is so ridiculous that it is a non-starter. The point, rather, seems to be what some people already commented: will the US weapons work against US allies?

The regional geopolitics has done a 180, but we still haven't caught on. US plans for the region favor India unquestionably over Pakistan, to the point that the US has all but abandoned the previous pretense of maintaining parity in the region. India gets offered almost all the latest toys, while Pakistan has to make do with decades old technology.

Factor in the wikileaks about Russia/Israel exchanging access codes for weapons systems and, regardless of whether you believe the leaks, the fact remains that there is a very real possibility our weapons systems may be compromised even against India. This is why nobody believes that all the fancy American toys in the Arab arsenals will as much as hurt a mosquito in Israel.

So, does the possibility exist that India will be able to compromise Pakistan's weapons systems by obtaining information through Israel or even directly from the Pentagon?

I believe we can't rule out this possibility.