" "Pacifists" No More?" Scuffles as Japan security bill approved by committee

[gambit]

i did say some posts before that the A Bombs deals some "Damage" to Japan. but since we're talking about what makes the japanese surrender, then the A Bombs were pretty irrellevant. i could've post other links but this should be enough to educate you

The A-bombs were not irrelevant.

Assume that the Soviets' entry into a war against Imperial Japan was compelling. Even so, Japan was trying to negotiate a surrender. If anything was irrelevant, it was the fact that Japan was operationally defeated. What Japan was trying to do was negotiate a CONDITIONAL surrender and the US and allies were not willing to accept that. Either Imperial Japan surrender UNCONDITIONALLY or be utterly defeated.

But since Japan surrendered unconditionally, the A-bombs were not irrelevant.

 

[jhungary]

hahaha yes you're right. thanks for the correction



the A Bombs were really the last attempt to damage Japan. if murica were more than able to take them head on, then the A Bombs were the very last thing to drop. really, there is no reason for them to surrender just because they take two A Bombs in irrelevant cities. in fact, the A Bombs were supposed to make them grow even more aggresive towards murica. think how there is no Peace treaty among Japan and Russia today. even today the Russians are eager to demolish them when they can.

The question is rather "How" Japan want to surrender to the Allied. They can offer any sort of surrendering and that does not mean the Allied command will need to accept their surrender every which way the Japanese want.

The Allied Supreme Command want Japan to surrender unconditionally, that mean if any surrender by Japanese was accepted, that must be according to Allied decision, not Japanese.

If you look at the incident in hind sight, EVERYTHING is irrelevant, as no matter what the Allied plus Soviet Russia do, the Japanese can choose to fight on instead of surrendering. Japan could have fought on after the 2 bomb dropped. Japan could have fought on had Soviet Russia started their own Manchuria invasion, Japan could have fought on even with the eventual US invasion of Tokyo. Because in hind sight, this is what "COULD HAVE BEEN"

The problem is, Japan choose to accept the term of the surrender after the 2 bomb drop, this action itself, make the 2 bomb relevant to the Japanese surrender

 

[prima99]

The A-bombs were not irrelevant.

Assume that the Soviets' entry into a war against Imperial Japan was compelling. Even so, Japan was trying to negotiate a surrender. If anything was irrelevant, it was the fact that Japan was operationally defeated. What Japan was trying to do was negotiate a CONDITIONAL surrender and the US and allies were not willing to accept that. Either Imperial Japan surrender UNCONDITIONALLY or be utterly defeated.

But since Japan surrendered unconditionally, the A-bombs were not irrelevant.

so you're implying that since the A Bombs were dropped right after Japan Unconditional surrender and since the emperor himself did mention about it, it's relevant?

perhaps you need to know that the very last Japanese Soldier surrender in 1974. the emperor speech certainly did not represent all the soldiers that were ordered by their commander to never give up. the Japanese has only one weakness, and that is their Emperor.

English narration

Original video

The question is rather "How" Japan want to surrender to the Allied. They can offer any sort of surrendering and that does not mean the Allied command will need to accept their surrender every which way the Japanese want.

The Allied Supreme Command want Japan to surrender unconditionally, that mean if any surrender by Japanese was accepted, that must be according to Allied decision, not Japanese.

honestly it's only the Emperor that wants japan to surrender. you can't expect a weak man like the emperor to be an absolute "God" for the country.

If you look at the incident in hind sight, EVERYTHING is irrelevant, as no matter what the Allied plus Soviet Russia do, the Japanese can choose to fight on instead of surrendering. Japan could have fought on after the 2 bomb dropped. Japan could have fought on had Soviet Russia started their own Manchuria invasion, Japan could have fought on even with the eventual US invasion of Tokyo. Because in hind sight, this is what "COULD HAVE BEEN"

The problem is, Japan choose to accept the term of the surrender after the 2 bomb drop, this action itself, make the 2 bomb relevant to the Japanese surrender

nope, it's not "COULD HAVE BEEN". they are ALWAYS fighting for their country regardless of the emperor's intentions to surrender. if the emperor himself can't even make them surrender, how does two bombs can?

the above video is just one example. there are 6000 of Imperial Japanese Army left in Philippines ALONE. think how many of Japanese soldiers remained in the Ex-Greater Asia Co Prosperity Sphere territories, all while still being ACTIVE and LOYAL to their country, putting aside what their emperor wants them to.

this list were just a small example i picked from wikipedia, and a link from a source site, since it's going to take lots of time. you can look up for the rest of it yourself.

Profiles of Known Japanese Holdouts

Yamakage Kufuku
Born - 1925
Surrendered - January 6, 1949

One of two IJN soldiers, machine gunners who with Matsudo Linsokiwas discovered on Iwo Jima and surrender peacefully. They had been living under the shadow of American forces and stealing supplies.

Story sent by SMSgt Donald Cook, USAF Ret. Sgt. Cook was assigned to Iwo Jima from Guam a few days after Iwo was made a separate unit under the 20th Air Force with headquarters in Guam, which Sgt. Cook believes was around August 15, 1948. It was the 22nd of August before he arrived on Iwo, which also happen to be his 28th birthday. This delay in arriving on Iwo is probably why his name was not on the original transfer orders that made the 65th a ABU a separate unit. He was in the 65th ABU until the following September when it was assigned to the 5th Air Force with its' Headquarters in Japan, at which time he was transferred to the AACS unit on the island. Sgt Cook returned to the states the latter part of October of 1949.


1945–1949

Second lieutenant Sakae Ōba in 1937

• Captain Sakae Ōba, who led his company of 46 men in guerrilla actions against US troops following the Battle of Saipan, did not surrender until December 1, 1945, three months after the war ended.
• Major Sei Igawa (井川省) volunteered as a Viet Minh staff officer and commander. Igawa was killed in a battle with French troops in 1946.
• Navy Lieutenant Hideo Horiuchi (堀内秀雄) volunteered as an Indonesian volunteer Army Lieutenant Colonel. Horiuchi was arrested by Dutch troops on August 13, 1946, while his wounds were being treated in a village after the battle with Dutch troops.
• Lieutenant Ei Yamaguchi and his 33 soldiers emerged on Peleliu in late March 1947, attacking the U.S. Marine Corps detachment stationed on the island. Reinforcements were sent in, along with a Japanese admiral who was able to convince them the war was over. They finally surrendered in April 1947.
• On May 12, 1948, the AP reported that two Japanese soldiers surrendered to civilian policemen in Guam.
• Yamakage Kufuku and Matsudo Linsoki, two IJN machine gunners, surrendered on Iwo Jima on January 6, 1949.

1950s

• Major Takuo Ishii (石井卓雄) continued to fight as a Viet Minh adviser, staff officer and commander. He was killed in a battle with French troops on May 20, 1950.
• The Associated Press reported on June 27, 1951 that a Japanese petty officer who surrendered on Anatahan Island in the Marianas two weeks before said that there were 18 other holdouts there. A U.S. Navy plane that flew over the island spotted 18 Japanese soldiers on a beach waving white flags. However, the Navy remained cautious, as the Japanese petty officer had warned that the soldiers were "well-armed and that some of them threatened to kill anyone who tried to give himself up. The leaders profess to believe that the war is still on." The Navy dispatched a seagoing tug, the Cocopa, to the island in hopes of picking up some or all of the soldiers without incident. The Japanese occupation of the island inspired a movie.
• Private 1st Class Yūichi Akatsu continued to fight on Lubang Island from 1944 until surrendering in the Philippine village of Looc on March 1950.
• Corporal Shōichi Shimada (島田庄一) continued to fight on Lubang until he was killed in a clash with Philippine soldiers in May 1954.
• Lieutenant Kikuo Tanimoto (谷本喜久男) volunteered as a Viet Minh adviser and commander. Tanimoto returned to Japan in 1954, after Vietnamese Independence and division.
• Seaman Noburo Kinoshita, after his November 1955 capture from the Luzon jungle, hanged himself rather than "return to Japan in defeat."
• In 1956, nine soldiers were discovered and sent home from Morotai.

1960s

• Private Bunzō Minagawa held out from 1944 until May 1960 on Guam.
• Sergeant Masashi Itō, Minagawa's superior, surrendered days later, May 23, 1960 on Guam.

1970s

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda in 1944

• Corporal Shoichi Yokoi, who served under Itō, was captured on Guam in January 1972.
• Private 1st Class Kinshichi Kozuka held out with Lt. Onoda for 28 years until he was killed in a shoot out with Philippine police in October 1972.
• Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, who held out from December 1944 until March 1974 on Lubang Island in the Philippines with Akatsu, Shimada and Kozuka, was relieved of duty by his former commanding officer in March 1974.
• Private Teruo Nakamura, a Taiwan-born soldier (Amis: Attun Palalin) was discovered by the Indonesian Air Force on Morotai, and surrendered to a search patrol on December 18, 1974.

1980s

• The Asahi Shimbun reported in January 1980 that Captain Fumio Nakaharu (中晴文夫) still held out at Mount Halcon in thePhilippines. A search team headed by his former comrade-in-arms Isao Miyazawa (宮沢功) believed it had found his hut. Miyazawa had been looking for Nakahara for many years. However, no evidence that Nakahara lived as late as 1980 has been documented.
• In 1981, a Diet of Japan committee mentioned newspaper reports that holdouts were still living in the forest on Vella Lavella in the Solomon Islands, and said searches had been conducted several times over the decades, but said the information was too scant to take any further action.

1990s

• In January 1990, Shigeyuki Hashimoto and Kiyoaki Tanaka returned to Japan from Malaysia. After the Japanese surrender, they joined with the Communist Party of Malaysia guerrilla forces to continue fighting against the British, only returning after the CPM laid down its arms and signed a peace treaty.

Do you understand that you are quoting a blog and not a 'Japanese source', retard.
Let me give you a more official 'non-American', 'non-made-up' source. Tell me if you can find the mention of Soviet invasion

Speech by Emperor Hirohito accepting the Terms of Surrender, 14 August 1945

What Mr. Tsuyoshi Hasegawa argues in his well-researched hypothesis is that Japan was counting on Soviet mediation to let it come out of war with at least a couple of its colonies intact along with its Imperial system but that dream was broken with Soviet attack in Manchuria and hence Japan surrendered.
While this would certainly have an impact, the Japanese people were very well prepared to fight till the last man. The Japanese high command had brainwashed the people into believing stuff about invading American forces who btw had also drawn on plans for invading Japan. Without nukes, it would be just another front. The IJA was still relatively intact and retreating to the home land for the final defence.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
This is not to say anything about you who foolishly continue to argue that nuclear bombs were 'irrelevant' to the surrender, when the person who himself authorized the surrender disagrees.

oh of course anybody knows the emperor did not "mention" about the soviet invasion in his speech, so what? does it justifies that the A Bombs were the only reason they surrender? hahaha how retarded.

why don't you try googling and look for more? can't remove that A Bombs Myth from your head now, eh? but hey, it's not too late not to be ended up retarded!

anyway i'm done dealing with you, since i can't cure stupidity such as you

here's some facts. enjoy!

http://arhiva.dalje.com/en-world/so...rompted-japan-surrender-us-experts-say/552189

"The Soviet entry into the war played a greater role than the atomic bombs in inducing Japan to surrender," Hasegawa writes in Racing the Enemy.

The Historical Society, Boston University

However this is not all good news for revisionists. Hasegawa rejects some parts of the revisionist case, including the critically important thesis that Japan could have been induced to surrender prior to the events of August 6-9, when atomic bombs were dropped on Hiroshima (August 6) and Nagasaki (August 9). Beyond that, Hasegawa argues, Japan surrendered not because of what happened at Hiroshima and Nagasaki but because of the Soviet declaration of war that took place between those two dreadful nuclear explosions.

Hiroshima atomic bombing did not lead to Japanese surrender, historians argue nearing 70th anniversary - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Many historians say the bombings did not lead to the Japanese surrender, and the Soviet declaration of war on Japan two days later was a bigger shock.

Japanese historian Yuki Tanaka said the country had no choice because the Soviets would have killed Emperor Hirohito, seen as the heart and soul of imperial Japan.

"The Soviet Union would demolish the emperor system and they would execute the emperor as well as all members of the royal family," he said.

Racing the Enemy — Tsuyoshi Hasegawa | Harvard University Press

“What ended World War II?… Tsuyoshi Hasegawa—a highly respected historian at the University of California, Santa Barbara—has marshaled compelling evidence that it was the Soviet entry into the Pacific conflict, not Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that forced Japan’s surrender. His interpretation could force a new accounting of the moral meaning of the atomic attack. It also raises provocative questions about nuclear deterrence, a foundation stone of military strategy in the postwar period.

Why did Japan surrender? - The Boston Globe

“Hasegawa has changed my mind,” says Richard Rhodes, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of “The Making of the Atomic Bomb.” “The Japanese decision to surrender was not driven by the two bombings.”

Why the Bomb did not win the War - Voices - The Independent

Hiroshima and Nagasaki will go down in history as two of the most cruel and awesome acts of war of the 20th century, but the defining influence they have since had on political and military history is due partly to the erroneous belief that they abruptly ended the war. Yet compared to the threat of invasion by the Soviet Union, their influence on the decision of the Japanese to surrender was marginal. The menace of the nuclear bomb will always be terrifying; but the notion that it has unique political potency turns out to have been a myth all along.

Review of Racing the Enemy: Stalin, Truman, and the Surrender of Japan by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa | Academic World History Articles and Essays | Middle Ground Journal

Second, Molotov held out the Japanese for mediation while the Soviets were actually preparing for war. Hasegawa claims that the eventual Soviet attack shocked the Japanese more than the destruction caused by the U.S. atomic bombs.

Historians: Soviet offensive, key to Japan's WWII surrender, was eclipsed by A-bombs | Fox News

"The Soviet entry into the war played a much greater role than the atomic bombs in inducing Japan to surrender because it dashed any hope that Japan could terminate the war through Moscow's mediation," said Tsuyoshi Hasegawa, whose recently published "Racing the Enemy" examines the conclusion of the Pacific war and is based on recently declassified Soviet archives as well as U.S. and Japanese documents..

Hiroshima bomb may have carried hidden agenda | New Scientist

New studies of the US, Japanese and Soviet diplomatic archives suggest that Truman’s main motive was to limit Soviet expansion in Asia, Kuznick claims. Japan surrendered because the Soviet Union began an invasion a few days after the Hiroshima bombing, not because of the atomic bombs themselves, he says.

 

[gambit]

so you're implying that since the A Bombs were dropped right after Japan Unconditional surrender and since the emperor himself did mention about it, it's relevant?

The A-bombs were dropped BEFORE Japan surrendered unconditionally.

perhaps you need to know that the very last Japanese Soldier surrender in 1974. the emperor speech certainly did not represent all the soldiers that were ordered by their commander to never give up. the Japanese has only one weakness, and that is their Emperor.

Did not represent ? Or did not REACH those far off outposts ?

honestly it's only the Emperor that wants japan to surrender. you can't expect a weak man like the emperor to be an absolute "God" for the country.

What we think of the Emperor on what he is to be is irrelevant. What is relevant is how the Japanese view the monarchy and if the monarchy says 'Surrender' and if the Japanese nation obeys, that is all that matter.

anyway i'm done dealing with you, since i can't cure stupidity such as you

here's some facts. enjoy!

http://arhiva.dalje.com/en-world/so...rompted-japan-surrender-us-experts-say/552189

The arguments above are not new. But it is interesting you are going about presenting them. On the one hand, you tried to present the Emperor as someone inconsequential in Japanese culture and society, then when it suits you, how important is the monarchy to the Japanese is pushed to the fore. So enjoys the exposure of your inconsistency.

 

[prima99]

Did not represent ? Or did not REACH those far off outposts ?

it DID reach them. think how they're retreating from Indonesia which is the most far region of the Asia Co Prosperity Sphere. fyi, over 2000 IJAs does not return to Japan after their surrender, which can be seen in the video below. in case you can't see complete video title, it reads "2000 Japanese Soldiers Embraced Islam after WWII and Fought to Liberate Indonesia"

What we think of the Emperor on what he is to be is irrelevant. What is relevant is how the Japanese view the monarchy and if the monarchy says 'Surrender' and if the Japanese nation obeys, that is all that matter.

except not all of them obeys the emperor

The arguments above are not new. But it is interesting you are going about presenting them. On the one hand, you tried to present the Emperor as someone inconsequential in Japanese culture and society, then when it suits you, how important is the monarchy to the Japanese is pushed to the fore. So enjoys the exposure of your inconsistency.

dunno what you mean about this. the point of those links above were for the importance of Soviet Invasion not for the importance of the emperor. but since the articles mention about the emperor then, well, shiz? anyway i'm still keeping that the emperor is not as important as he seems to be so don't confuse me.

 

[Aepsilons]

The A-bombs were dropped BEFORE Japan surrendered unconditionally.


Did not represent ? Or did not REACH those far off outposts ?


What we think of the Emperor on what he is to be is irrelevant. What is relevant is how the Japanese view the monarchy and if the monarchy says 'Surrender' and if the Japanese nation obeys, that is all that matter.


The arguments above are not new. But it is interesting you are going about presenting them. On the one hand, you tried to present the Emperor as someone inconsequential in Japanese culture and society, then when it suits you, how important is the monarchy to the Japanese is pushed to the fore. So enjoys the exposure of your inconsistency.

Once the Showa Emperor's voice reached the people, once the Armu heard His Voice and His view , the WHOLE of the Japanese Empire bowed to His will. This was the first time in history that the common folks heard the voice of the Emperor, who in our Shinto religion is descendent of Omikami Amaterasu, the Sun Goddess.

As the Emperor is the Pontifex Maximus of Imperial Shintoism, He is the co mediator between The God, the Imperial ancestors in Heaven and the people. So in regards to that aspect, What He says is, in context to Japanese Race and Japanese Empire, the very Will of Heaven.

Thus Japan suffered the insufferable , only by Grace of Heaven, and peacefully cooperated with the Americans post war because His Imperial Majesty, The Emperor Showa ---- had requested the Whole Nation to do so peacefully and without unnecessary hindrance.

In other words, Imperial Majesty, Father of the Nation and Japanese People, saw the futility of war and the suffering of the people. Hence He acted against protocol and admonished His Government by deliberating to the people directly.

The Whole of Japan deigned to obey His Imperial Majesty over the Imperial Government.

That is how Powerully Influential Imperial Majesty Is. Still Is.

 

[C130]

this is overblown. Japan would never send troops overseas to fight a war.

any war would be defensive to protect the home islands.

what Japan needs and I am being dead serious is nuclear deterrence. now this wouldn't be necessary if NK wasn't building it's own atom bombs and ballistic missiles.

a stock pile of >50 fission bombs with a ballistic missiles with a range to cover all of China would be the best defense/deterrence.



now that would be highly controversial.

 

[prima99]

this is overblown. Japan would never send troops overseas to fight a war.

any war would be defensive to protect the home islands.

what Japan needs and I am being dead serious is nuclear deterrence. now this wouldn't be necessary if NK wasn't building it's own atom bombs and ballistic missiles.

a stock pile of >50 fission bombs with a ballistic missiles with a range to cover all of China would be the best defense/deterrence.



now that would be highly controversial.

well in that case they'll be losing huge amount of Adult Video Actresses as home-based defence means the fight will happen on their lands. but hey, it's not like we can't take booby women as refugees, aight?

they shoulda make some "unique weapons". something like Tentacle Rape Trap? it's deadly for Female Soldiers and it's very Japan-ish too!

 

[jhungary]

honestly it's only the Emperor that wants japan to surrender. you can't expect a weak man like the emperor to be an absolute "God" for the country.

But he is, and the most important thing is, people of Japan listen to him, including those straggler.

Just because he is weak (Which actually disputable by the way) that does not means everything they do did not count, over the course of history, many empire and dynasty fail because of weak will emperors, can those empire come out and say it does not count because we had a weak emperor?

nope, it's not "COULD HAVE BEEN". they are ALWAYS fighting for their country regardless of the emperor's intentions to surrender. if the emperor himself can't even make them surrender, how does two bombs can?

the above video is just one example. there are 6000 of Imperial Japanese Army left in Philippines ALONE. think how many of Japanese soldiers remained in the Ex-Greater Asia Co Prosperity Sphere territories, all while still being ACTIVE and LOYAL to their country, putting aside what their emperor wants them to.

this list were just a small example i picked from wikipedia, and a link from a source site, since it's going to take lots of time. you can look up for the rest of it yourself.

Profiles of Known Japanese Holdouts

Yamakage Kufuku
Born - 1925
Surrendered - January 6, 1949

One of two IJN soldiers, machine gunners who with Matsudo Linsokiwas discovered on Iwo Jima and surrender peacefully. They had been living under the shadow of American forces and stealing supplies.

​

Story sent by SMSgt Donald Cook, USAF Ret. Sgt. Cook was assigned to Iwo Jima from Guam a few days after Iwo was made a separate unit under the 20th Air Force with headquarters in Guam, which Sgt. Cook believes was around August 15, 1948. It was the 22nd of August before he arrived on Iwo, which also happen to be his 28th birthday. This delay in arriving on Iwo is probably why his name was not on the original transfer orders that made the 65th a ABU a separate unit. He was in the 65th ABU until the following September when it was assigned to the 5th Air Force with its' Headquarters in Japan, at which time he was transferred to the AACS unit on the island. Sgt Cook returned to the states the latter part of October of 1949.


1945–1949

Second lieutenant Sakae Ōba in 1937

• Captain Sakae Ōba, who led his company of 46 men in guerrilla actions against US troops following the Battle of Saipan, did not surrender until December 1, 1945, three months after the war ended.
• Major Sei Igawa (井川省) volunteered as a Viet Minh staff officer and commander. Igawa was killed in a battle with French troops in 1946.
• Navy Lieutenant Hideo Horiuchi (堀内秀雄) volunteered as an Indonesian volunteer Army Lieutenant Colonel. Horiuchi was arrested by Dutch troops on August 13, 1946, while his wounds were being treated in a village after the battle with Dutch troops.
• Lieutenant Ei Yamaguchi and his 33 soldiers emerged on Peleliu in late March 1947, attacking the U.S. Marine Corps detachment stationed on the island. Reinforcements were sent in, along with a Japanese admiral who was able to convince them the war was over. They finally surrendered in April 1947.
• On May 12, 1948, the AP reported that two Japanese soldiers surrendered to civilian policemen in Guam.
• Yamakage Kufuku and Matsudo Linsoki, two IJN machine gunners, surrendered on Iwo Jima on January 6, 1949.

1950s

• Major Takuo Ishii (石井卓雄) continued to fight as a Viet Minh adviser, staff officer and commander. He was killed in a battle with French troops on May 20, 1950.
• The Associated Press reported on June 27, 1951 that a Japanese petty officer who surrendered on Anatahan Island in the Marianas two weeks before said that there were 18 other holdouts there. A U.S. Navy plane that flew over the island spotted 18 Japanese soldiers on a beach waving white flags. However, the Navy remained cautious, as the Japanese petty officer had warned that the soldiers were "well-armed and that some of them threatened to kill anyone who tried to give himself up. The leaders profess to believe that the war is still on." The Navy dispatched a seagoing tug, the Cocopa, to the island in hopes of picking up some or all of the soldiers without incident. The Japanese occupation of the island inspired a movie.
• Private 1st Class Yūichi Akatsu continued to fight on Lubang Island from 1944 until surrendering in the Philippine village of Looc on March 1950.
• Corporal Shōichi Shimada (島田庄一) continued to fight on Lubang until he was killed in a clash with Philippine soldiers in May 1954.
• Lieutenant Kikuo Tanimoto (谷本喜久男) volunteered as a Viet Minh adviser and commander. Tanimoto returned to Japan in 1954, after Vietnamese Independence and division.
• Seaman Noburo Kinoshita, after his November 1955 capture from the Luzon jungle, hanged himself rather than "return to Japan in defeat."
• In 1956, nine soldiers were discovered and sent home from Morotai.

1960s

• Private Bunzō Minagawa held out from 1944 until May 1960 on Guam.
• Sergeant Masashi Itō, Minagawa's superior, surrendered days later, May 23, 1960 on Guam.

1970s

Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda in 1944

• Corporal Shoichi Yokoi, who served under Itō, was captured on Guam in January 1972.
• Private 1st Class Kinshichi Kozuka held out with Lt. Onoda for 28 years until he was killed in a shoot out with Philippine police in October 1972.
• Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda, who held out from December 1944 until March 1974 on Lubang Island in the Philippines with Akatsu, Shimada and Kozuka, was relieved of duty by his former commanding officer in March 1974.
• Private Teruo Nakamura, a Taiwan-born soldier (Amis: Attun Palalin) was discovered by the Indonesian Air Force on Morotai, and surrendered to a search patrol on December 18, 1974.

1980s

• The Asahi Shimbun reported in January 1980 that Captain Fumio Nakaharu (中晴文夫) still held out at Mount Halcon in thePhilippines. A search team headed by his former comrade-in-arms Isao Miyazawa (宮沢功) believed it had found his hut. Miyazawa had been looking for Nakahara for many years. However, no evidence that Nakahara lived as late as 1980 has been documented.
• In 1981, a Diet of Japan committee mentioned newspaper reports that holdouts were still living in the forest on Vella Lavella in the Solomon Islands, and said searches had been conducted several times over the decades, but said the information was too scant to take any further action.

1990s

• In January 1990, Shigeyuki Hashimoto and Kiyoaki Tanaka returned to Japan from Malaysia. After the Japanese surrender, they joined with the Communist Party of Malaysia guerrilla forces to continue fighting against the British, only returning after the CPM laid down its arms and signed a peace treaty.

It always a situation of "What could have been" because when you look at history, there are only 2 angle you can look at it, you either look at it after the fact (ala What actually happened) or in Hindsight (What could have happens)

The fact is, those straggler were there because Japan ended the war in 1945, and when they were not notified, they fought on. But in Hind sight, you cannot say since they will fight on, then the surrendering is irrelevant, because if you have to talk about what it could have been when those people fight on, then EVERYTHING could happen. They could be killed in fighting, they could have been surrendering themselves, they may win, they could have married to a local and settle down and etc.

Problem is, those people are straggle because no one were looking for them after Japan surrendered (Which is a fact) and using them to proof a point could or could not have happened is a moot point. As they straggle because of the situation dictate and if the situation change, they may not straggle and become something else.

So, those straggler is irrelevant both after the fact, and in hind sight. And Do remember, those straggle do "SURRENDERED" in the end, what prompt them to surrender?? It's not they fought on because they ignore the emperor intention, but rather the news have not reach them, thus, they DON'T KNOW the emperor's intention to surrendering.

 

[Aepsilons]

But he is, and the most important thing is, people of Japan listen to him, including those straggler.

Just because he is weak (Which actually disputable by the way) that does not means everything they do did not count, over the course of history, many empire and dynasty fail because of weak will emperors, can those empire come out and say it does not count because we had a weak emperor?



It always a situation of "What could have been" because when you look at history, there are only 2 angle you can look at it, you either look at it after the fact (ala What actually happened) or in Hindsight (What could have happens)

The fact is, those straggler were there because Japan ended the war in 1945, and when they were not notified, they fought on. But in Hind sight, you cannot say since they will fight on, then the surrendering is irrelevant, because if you have to talk about what it could have been when those people fight on, then EVERYTHING could happen. They could be killed in fighting, they could have been surrendering themselves, they may win, they could have married to a local and settle down and etc.

Problem is, those people are straggle because no one were looking for them after Japan surrendered (Which is a fact) and using them to proof a point could or could not have happened is a moot point. As they straggle because of the situation dictate and if the situation change, they may not straggle and become something else.

So, those straggler is irrelevant both after the fact, and in hind sight. And Do remember, those straggle do "SURRENDERED" in the end, what prompt them to surrender?? It's not they fought on because they ignore the emperor intention, but rather the news have not reach them, thus, they DON'T KNOW the emperor's intention to surrendering.

100% correct.

 

[Vassnti]

Do u know what maintain & support the War ? It's money ... lucky world

What maintains a war is food boots and ammunition, money is just so much paper if the trade ships stop.

 

[Kyle Sun]

Uncle Sam releases the halter .

 

[prima99]

But he is, and the most important thing is, people of Japan listen to him, including those straggler.

well yes according to their Shinto believes, the emperor indeed is the closest to "God" any man can be.

Just because he is weak (Which actually disputable by the way) that does not means everything they do did not count, over the course of history, many empire and dynasty fail because of weak will emperors, can those empire come out and say it does not count because we had a weak emperor?[/quote]

*shurgs* beats me. after all their people is the very fruit of Shintoism Extremism and Brainwash-ism. the new Emperor after Hirohito were actually murican though! the MacArthur-Sama.

It always a situation of "What could have been" because when you look at history, there are only 2 angle you can look at it, you either look at it after the fact (ala What actually happened) or in Hindsight (What could have happens)

The fact is, those straggler were there because Japan ended the war in 1945, and when they were not notified, they fought on. But in Hind sight, you cannot say since they will fight on, then the surrendering is irrelevant, because if you have to talk about what it could have been when those people fight on, then EVERYTHING could happen. They could be killed in fighting, they could have been surrendering themselves, they may win, they could have married to a local and settle down and etc.

Problem is, those people are straggle because no one were looking for them after Japan surrendered (Which is a fact) and using them to proof a point could or could not have happened is a moot point. As they straggle because of the situation dictate and if the situation change, they may not straggle and become something else.

problem is those people stayed despite the Royal Surrender to fought for the land. they straggled because they wanted to and they've been taken care of by the locals. but hey i think you're right. those straggled IJA were no longer Japanese Citizens as they have become Indonesian Citizen by the time they fought for our Independence.

as quoted from my patriotic and brave comrade

Foreign Heroes behind the Indonesian Independence (2)

"Rahmat" Shigeru Ono (September 29th 1919 - 2014)

According to his memoirs, he was born in Hokkaido, Japan. Shigeru Ono managed to enter military school at early 20 years old during Sino-Japanese war. Fate choses him to travel far south, to Dutch East Indies. In that former colony of Dutch, Ono soon getting well-known among the natives, and getting know about their suffering after being colonialized, thus increasing Ono's symphaty to them.

After Japan's defeat, many of his fellow soldiers which trapped in East Indies, decided to choose hara-kiri. Ono himself have it in mind to follow them, but later he refuse and choose to raise his katana, joining the struggle for Indonesian Independence.

Ono later helping the guerillas by train them and translating some books about warfare and tactics to Indonesian language. Along with former Imperial Japanese Army personnel and local militias, he fought the British-backed Dutch troops in Yogyakarta, Ambarawa and many more places. One of battles which he's remember it most, is the raid of KNIL HQ in Mojokerto 1947.

Ono, Tomogero Yozhisumi (Bung Arif), and Tatsuo Ichiki (Abdul Rahman) joining a unit called Special Guerilla Troops (PGI) in 1948. Yozhisumi later becoming its leader and Tatsuo as the vice leader. In 1949, PGI was compromised, causing the death of Yozhisumi.

After the war, he later choose to stay in Indonesia after his Japanese citizenship discarded. He receive full Indonesian citizenship in 1951.
"At that time, we dont have nothing. No food, no job, nowhere to sleep, nor citizenship. Only the kind Indonesian farmer gives us food, clothes and place to sleep" Ono says while looking at the clear skies, remembering the past.

One of his best moment in life, when President Soekarno award him Bintang Veteran and Bintang Gerilya in 1958, and award which allows him to be buried at Heroes Cemetery of Kalibata when he's passed away.

Ono later reside in Batu, Malang, East Java. He later met Darkasih, another Japanese after meeting with another former warrior, Sukardi (Sugiyama). Ono was working as salesman, an employee in agriculture company, and later retired at 1995. He have 5 child.

Rahmat Shigeri Ono passed away at Monday, August 25, 2014. His last rank is Major. Ono passed away at 95 years old.

Neighbors, families and associates giving their last prayers to Ono.

Last ceremony to commemorate Rahmat Shigeru Ono.

So, those straggler is irrelevant both after the fact, and in hind sight. And Do remember, those straggle do "SURRENDERED" in the end, what prompt them to surrender?? It's not they fought on because they ignore the emperor intention, but rather the news have not reach them, thus, they DON'T KNOW the emperor's intention to surrendering.

well i guess i have to relate it to Indonesian Independence then, as it seems it would make no sense to you that i said the Surrender news reached them.

Indonesian Independence day is August 17th 1945. Japan surrenders just two days before the Proclamation of Independence

War for Independence: 1945 to 1950

August 7 BPUPKI renames itself to PPKI: Panitia Persiapan Kemerdekaan Indonesia.

August 9 Sukarno, Hatta, and Radjiman Wediodiningrat are flown by the Japanese to Vietnam to meet with Marshal Terauchi. There they are informed of the collapse of Japanese forces, and that Japan will grant Indonesia independence on August 24.

August 14 Sukarno, Hatta, and Radjiman Wediodiningrat return to Jakarta, mistrustful of the Japanese promise.

August 15 Japan surrenders to the Allies. The Japanese army and navy still control Indonesia. Japan has agreed to return Indonesia to the Dutch.

August 16 Sukarno and Hatta are spirited away by youth leaders, including Chaerul Saleh, to Rengasdengklok at 3:00 A.M. They later return to Jakarta, meet with General Yamamoto, and spend the next night at Vice-Admiral Maeda Tadashi's residence. Sukarno and Hatta are told privately that Japan no longer has the power to make decisions regarding the future of Indonesia.

August 17 Sukarno reads the brief, succinct, and unilateral "Proklamasi"; the Declaration of Independence.

 

[jhungary]

well yes according to their Shinto believes, the emperor indeed is the closest to "God" any man can be.

*shurgs* beats me. after all their people is the very fruit of Shintoism Extremism and Brainwash-ism. the new Emperor after Hirohito were actually murican though! the MacArthur-Sama.

What the emperor align to is not the matter for us to debate. What matters is what the Ordinary Japanese Choose, if the average Japanese want to keep the fight on, they could have topple the emperor and align themselves with the government. The question is, the average Japanese choose to follow the emperor, not the government.

That is what count as this is what actually happened. And that reflect what the normal Japanese want.

problem is those people stayed despite the Royal Surrender to fought for the land. they straggled because they wanted to and they've been taken care of by the locals. but hey i think you're right. those straggled IJA were no longer Japanese Citizens as they have become Indonesian Citizen by the time they fought for our Independence.

as quoted from my patriotic and brave comrade





well i guess i have to relate it to Indonesian Independence then, as it seems it would make no sense to you that i said the Surrender news reached them.

Indonesian Independence day is August 17th 1945. Japan surrenders just two days before the Proclamation of Independence

War for Independence: 1945 to 1950

August 7 BPUPKI renames itself to PPKI: Panitia Persiapan Kemerdekaan Indonesia.

August 9 Sukarno, Hatta, and Radjiman Wediodiningrat are flown by the Japanese to Vietnam to meet with Marshal Terauchi. There they are informed of the collapse of Japanese forces, and that Japan will grant Indonesia independence on August 24.

August 14 Sukarno, Hatta, and Radjiman Wediodiningrat return to Jakarta, mistrustful of the Japanese promise.

August 15 Japan surrenders to the Allies. The Japanese army and navy still control Indonesia. Japan has agreed to return Indonesia to the Dutch.

August 16 Sukarno and Hatta are spirited away by youth leaders, including Chaerul Saleh, to Rengasdengklok at 3:00 A.M. They later return to Jakarta, meet with General Yamamoto, and spend the next night at Vice-Admiral Maeda Tadashi's residence. Sukarno and Hatta are told privately that Japan no longer has the power to make decisions regarding the future of Indonesia.

August 17 Sukarno reads the brief, succinct, and unilateral "Proklamasi"; the Declaration of Independence.

The question, again, is on what situation dictate. The same thing happened in Burma during the Chinese Civil War. And to Vietnam after WW2.

Soldier straggle for a lot of reason, not all of them fought on because they didn't hear the news. As I said, they fought on because, well, whatever the circumstance they have endured, maybe they don't want to surrender, maybe they want to die an honourable death, or maybe they were simply doing what they are good at. But as I said, there are millions of reason why a straggler fought, straggler is therefore irrelevant to the surrender itself, as that is an individual choice. As said before, shall the circumstance had changed, that soldier may not straggle.

 

[Aepsilons]

What a pertinent song !