Our Afghanistan policy

[Kabira]

Well you have not been treating it otherwise if you read the writer's take he is arguing that this policy has brought your ruins and time to change course.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is stupid.

But I am sure you didn't read the article and resorted to one liners. Pathetic!

What alternative Pakistan had? Handing over FATA/KP for peace? Not acceptable. Anyway Pakistan have made huge gains against terrorists and now border is being fenced on permanent basis and refugees going back. Things can only go up from here on for Pakistan irrespective of what happen in Afghanistan.

 

[KN-1]

its not that you are saints and we are irrational people. your warlords are innocent and Pakistani military is cruel.

build the fence and install surveillance equipment on whole border, pressure Afghans to have posts on their side as well, so no one can move inside and outside both countries without knowledge of security forces. no better option then this.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Low iq whataboutery



Blaming the victim. Terrorism 101.



Low quality strawman with ZERO comprehension




Openly honest salafist terrorist who wants "talibani sharia" in other countries but enjoys mujra in his own

What a display of pakistani intellect this has been. Gold.

indians have a lower racial IQ than both Pakistanis and indians:

https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country#

 

[Sharpshooter12]

Given Trump’s statement, the China-India disengagement from Doklam, and the Xi-Modi meeting on the sidelines of the Xiamen summit there is a worrying query: is China gently but publicly pressing Pakistan to take down organisations on its territory who have links with insurgents on Chinese territory? If Pakistan is silly enough to ignore this message it will progressively upset China and sow doubts in Chinese minds about their strategic partnership with Pakistan.

The opportunities presented by President Ashraf Ghani’s visit to Rawalpindi in November 2014 after he became president have been wasted. But instead of learning from failed policies, self-serving narratives were constructed to demonise Afghan leaders as Indian puppets.

Alienating Kabul and relying on the Taliban to provide leverage is demonstrably stupid. Pakistan’s policy has also been unnecessarily India-centric. This alienates Afghan political opinion and ensures that Pakistan will lose zero-sum games with India inside Afghanistan. Afghan goodwill for India will not translate into ill will towards Pakistan unless its policies are seen by Afghans as forcing upon them an unwanted choice between India and Pakistan.

An excellent read. It is high time that we change our Afghan policy. Back in the 2001, I think our establishment made the grave mis-judgment of thinking Americans won't stay in Afghanistan for long. Whatever regime they setup in Afghanistan will eventually fall to Taliban, and hence we hedged our bets. It has already been 17 years and we have suffered economically and diplomatically because of that mis-judgement.

The fact of the matter is, ANA with Nato air support, will not allow Taliban to hold any major city. We have seen it in case of Kunduz a couple of year ago, Taliban were able to capture the city but could not hold it when the air support arrived. Similarly, while Sangin was a perfect example of how incapable ANA is on its on, but with US air support things always change. Taliban can control the countryside, but Kabul will not fall in the foreseeable future.

Also we have to think about whether we actually want Taliban to take over Afghanistan. I did not agree with Huntington's Clash of Civilization theory in its totality, but in his book one of his point that I agree to was that ever since the Soviet Afghan war, militant groups in Islamic world got a new hope that yes it can be done. Now if US backs down and Kabul falls, what will stop these groups to try the same within Pakistan or Sinkiang, do we really want that.

So instead of hedging our bets on Taliban, we should first try to agree them to a meaningful dialogue with Kabul. And if it all fails, treat them as our enemies. Yes it will be a very controversial stance but in current world scenario we'll have to take it. We can't wait any longer for things to happen.

But my dear Afghan friend, Afghanistan has to change its policies towards us as well. There is a reason we prefer Talibans and religious minded militias in your country over nationalist Afghans. Ever since 1949 when you convened that Loy Jirga to not accept our international border with you guys, we have seen only trouble from our western borders. While the Pushtunistan boogie man is long dead and buried. But unless your leadership openly accepts that they accept the Durand line as an international border, we will continue to see you with doubt. Also Kabul should be ready to give concessions to Taliban if you guys are to have a genuine dialogue.

 

[A-Team]

An excellent read. It is high time that we change our Afghan policy. Back in the 2001, I think our establishment made the grave mis-judgment of thinking Americans won't stay in Afghanistan for long. Whatever regime they setup in Afghanistan will eventually fall to Taliban, and hence we hedged our bets. It has already been 17 years and we have suffered economically and diplomatically because of that mis-judgement.

The fact of the matter is, ANA with Nato air support, will not allow Taliban to hold any major city. We have seen it in case of Kunduz a couple of year ago, Taliban were able to capture the city but could not hold it when the air support arrived. Similarly, while Sangin was a perfect example of how incapable ANA is on its on, but with US air support things always change. Taliban can control the countryside, but Kabul will not fall in the foreseeable future.

Also we have to think about whether we actually want Taliban to take over Afghanistan. I did not agree with Huntington's Clash of Civilization theory in its totality, but in his book one of his point that I agree to was that ever since the Soviet Afghan war, militant groups in Islamic world got a new hope that yes it can be done. Now if US backs down and Kabul falls, what will stop these groups to try the same within Pakistan or Sinkiang, do we really want that.

So instead of hedging our bets on Taliban, we should first try to agree them to a meaningful dialogue with Kabul. And if it all fails, treat them as our enemies. Yes it will be a very controversial stance but in current world scenario we'll have to take it. We can't wait any longer for things to happen.

But my dear Afghan friend, Afghanistan has to change its policies towards us as well. There is a reason we prefer Talibans and religious minded militias in your country over nationalist Afghans. Ever since 1949 when you convened that Loy Jirga to not accept our international border with you guys, we have seen only trouble from our western borders. While the Pushtunistan boogie man is long dead and buried. But unless your leadership openly accepts that they accept the Durand line as an international border, we will continue to see you with doubt. Also Kabul should be ready to give concessions to Taliban if you guys are to have a genuine dialogue.

Fair arguments. Thanks.

My two cents are as follows

1. Afghan state is here to stay. Pakistan should treat it as independent state, who will have relations with others based on her interests, this includes among others India or even Israel. Guarantee should be give to Pak that no third country would use the AF soil against her.
2. Talis are welcome to live in peace in AF, provided they accept the Afghan constitution,women rights, minority rights etc.
3. Durand line should be accepted by AF side. A face saving mechanism would be to have referendum, ask all the Pakhtoons across the Durand Line, majority would side with Pakistan but would be a face mechanism for AF rulers.
4. Open borders, complete opening of commerce and travel between the countries.

 

[Eagle_storm]

Fair point. Now can you guys please take back 5-10 million of your fellow countrymen and women who are living in my country and sucking our resources dry. Once that is done, can we permanently heavily seal the Pakistan/Afghan border. Nothing comes in or goes out. Problem solved for everyone.

honestly he cant answer you.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

Fair arguments. Thanks.

My two cents are as follows

1. Afghan state is here to stay. Pakistan should treat it as independent state, who will have relations with others based on her interests, this includes among others India or even Israel. Guarantee should be give to Pak that no third country would use the AF soil against her.
2. Talis are welcome to live in peace in AF, provided they accept the Afghan constitution,women rights, minority rights etc.
3. Durand line should be accepted by AF side. A face saving mechanism would be to have referendum, ask all the Pakhtoons across the Durand Line, majority would side with Pakistan but would be a face mechanism for AF rulers.
4. Open borders, complete opening of commerce and travel between the countries.

Your first point is valid and yes Pakistan should be following this stance.

By your second point, it seems you don't think any concessions should be given to Taliban. This will not work.

See a few years back, Pakistani Taliban controlled much of our tribal areas and many settled districts of KPK. Today they don't control an inch of our land. One can argue that Pakistani state and its security apparatus is much stronger and mature than that of Afghanistan, but you had 150000 of the best troops this world has to offer to support you, and still you could not root out Taliban. Today even after 17 years of war, they control a large part of your country.

The reason is simple, TTP lost public support after APS attack, just one major attack is all it took. The grievances TTP support base has not are as deep as that of Taliban support base. They have quite a lot of support in your southern provinces. Presence of foreign troops, night raids and air strikes might be the reason. But these will be necessary steps to counter the Taliban threat. So you are in a catch 22, if there are no air strikes and foreign troops presence, Taliban will control more land, if there are strikes and foreign presence there support base will continue.

Foreign troops will never understand your cultural and religious sensitivities and there presence will be a destabilizing factor for Afghanistan. Take example of these leaflets thrown by Nato a few days ago. They don't understand what that Kalima means to us, for them it is just a symbol of Taliban or other militant groups.

Taliban were ruling Afghanistan before US arrived, they are your people, you have to come to terms with this reality. They don't really need safe havens in Pakistan anymore, they are roaming freely in your country. This is their convoy moving in broad daylight in Sangin in may.

So unless you want to stay in perpetual conflict, you will have to give concessions to Taliban.

 

[Cadillac]

There is no valid and better incentive than Talis participating in free and open elections at all levels be it at the provincial, parliamentarian and EVEN presidential. It is an absolute of paramount issue for Afghanistan that all terrorist groups and organisations such as Talibs are fully disarmed and neutralised in to a political entity only. Peace that is sustainable will be the only choice guiding Afghanistan's dealing with terrorists and their patrons, make no mistake.

That is the concession, nothing less or more.

I am sure Talib terrorists and their Pakistani patrons would prefer them to remain a paramilitary group and continue to retain form of capacity to resort to terror and their brand of instability and horror. That is not going to happen. Afghanistan will continue to fight Taliban and confront Pakistani policies against its stability and core interests.

Pakistan has a clear choice between siding with terrorists or to pursue its legitimate interests through their appropriate means.

 

[ziaulislam]

Fair arguments. Thanks.

My two cents are as follows

1. Afghan state is here to stay. Pakistan should treat it as independent state, who will have relations with others based on her interests, this includes among others India or even Israel. Guarantee should be give to Pak that no third country would use the AF soil against her.
2. Talis are welcome to live in peace in AF, provided they accept the Afghan constitution,women rights, minority rights etc.
3. Durand line should be accepted by AF side. A face saving mechanism would be to have referendum, ask all the Pakhtoons across the Durand Line, majority would side with Pakistan but would be a face mechanism for AF rulers.
4. Open borders, complete opening of commerce and travel between the countries.

the problem is Afghanistan refuses to accept Pakistan, it's not the other way around, had it been any other country it would have refused to help Afghanistan in anyway

this isn't new, Afghanistan has refused to accept Pakistan since 1947, IT WAS THE ONLY COUNTRY WHO VOTED AGAINST US IN UN

PAKISTAN DOESNT SUPPORT AFGHNIATSN, ITS THE OPIUM WHO SUPPORTS Taliban world 95% opium is produced in Afghanistan

just google they have killed 100s of Pakistanis and just recently abducted dozen of Pakistanis, they have killed, robbed and even raped in Chitral
there are idiots every where who would support them i mean there are idiots who state world is flat or white supremacy people but that doesn't mean it's the general trend

if you do a referendum on durand line, Afghans will refuse it..so you cant do face saving, you have pumped anti Pakistanisim in them and brain washed them since they were children

 

[Cadillac]

A-Team, it is nice to see you here. yara da da sarray zaman na de der zer har sa na ma tereezha, khafa na se der teezantoob sha nawe. Mata shkari ta hum daal deer khwaralee aw daal khwaro sara osedalay ye. Durrand line sta shakhsy maal na day aw da gozono pa qemat ye ma kharsawa. Gozona ma wola! Manana

 

[ziaulislam]

in my opioin the probelm is:

Afghanistan is ruled by people who have no interest in Afghanistan, unfortunately they way they are doing this is brain washing their people that problem is outside not within them

their interest is in opium(world 95% opium!!!!) and drug trade and money laundering
as soon as things get worse these so called leaders will leave the country and leave you to your own mercy, they have looted over 100 billion $ of civilian aid and 150 billion dollars of military AId

A-Team, it is nice to see you here. yara da da sarray zaman na de der zer har sa na ma tereezha, khafa na se der teezantoob sha nawe. Mata shkari ta hum daal deer khwaralee aw daal khwaro sara osedalay ye. Durrand line sta shakhsy maal na day aw da gozono pa qemat ye ma kharsawa. Gozona ma wola! Manana

tasu saree zaman naye, pukhtoon qoom badnam karay dey, pukhtana bal pa koor key ghul na kay....
tasu pukhtana roryano 30 kala osatalay hum tasu khushala nayey...

Pushtoon qoom pa aghanistan key na, pa Pakistan key, pa khyber key, au pa Lahore aur Karachi key abad dey

 

[Pakistansdefender]

1. No other country can tolerate false claims by other countries on their territory...
The afghans need to understand this reality. Even in Afghanistan not 100 percent are phustoons. Only 35 percent are phustoons. What if Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan demand Uzbek, Tajik, Turkmen regions in Afghanistan just because they have the same ethnicity.
Or the Tajik or Turkmen or Uzbek want a merger with state of their ethnicity. It is not going to happen. Pakistan never ever has fueled the ethnic card in Afghanistan, trust me there is lot of potential. Afghanistan must respect Pakistan's soveranity. Only can can afghans get the respect and love they deserve.

2. It is very easy to blame Pakistan. Afghans have done it all their life. ( Now they are quite used to it , even they blame Pakistan for natural disasters). now the blame has expanded to Iran and Russia. You contradict yourself. You demand respect from the world, the reality is nobody is going to give you unless you respect yourself. No body can save afghanistan but afghans. Stop blaming others and stop depending on others. And it would also help you if you do neighbors a favour, neighbors would also help you then. If you stop Indian led terrorism then we too can reign in whatever we can. Surely you don't want Pakistans to come and fight for you as afghans are so proud and great and what not people. So you have to fight it on your own. What you have done in baluchistan, your nds chief accepts it openly , it is an open secret that Amerullah Salleh accepts that he sends brahamdagh bugti on an Indian visa to Dubai then Switzerland. Allah Nazar baloch was under nds supervision and we have clear evidence. Also ttp is on nds and Raw payroll. Maybe instead of supporting terrorism in other countries, they must focus on security of their own country. It would do them good. How can you even think that the world must kill everyone who hate afghans but you would continue to harbor terrorist. To you ttp, Bloch terrorist are good terrorist.

3. stop living in past. Pakistan has learned it's lessons, have we not been part of afghan adventure our economy would be larger then India now and due to smaller population we are moving towards developing ourself. Google our economy in 1990s and compare it to India. The reailty has changed, the Taliban are clever, they don't trust pakistan at all. Pakistan is where they are droned. Pakistani authorities capture them and hand them over u.s etc etc. Even now they have moved their families. They are hiding in Iran and Afghanistan itself. They control 50 percent of Afghanistan, they are governing the areas that control.
Again everyone would pursue their regional interests .If iran harbours them, they must have their interest like keeping isis at bay.

4. reailty is hard but it is the reailty. Taliban are a force and have a support, how much small it may be. They are afghans too. The only reason your government and establishment don't want to strike a deal with them is because they are too powerful Now. A simple deal with taliban can be struck today, with a simple promise of u.s leaving, taliban accepting the constitution and whatever changes they want to make , they have to come to parliament to change it. Then hold immediate elections.
Or taliban must be given some lower level power such as local bodies election or something. They are not restricted to one place as Pakistani taliban are in Pakistan's tribal belt. They are throughout Afghanistan.
Even we tried to talk with the Pakistani Taliban. Even we are offering incentive to balochi terrorist to return.
You always blame Pakistani establishment that they don't want peace between Afghanistan government and taliban. But in reality it is your establishment that does not want peace. They are called war lord for something. War is their business. Aid is how their addiction for corruption goes. Drug money is the worst addiction worse then drugs.
Do make peace with taliban . And if you cannot, then atleast kill those that are in your country. Look Pakistan has also killed those inside Pakistan, then those residing in Afghanistan are sort of becoming irrelevant day by day. Similarly put your Own house in order and see the results.

5 close the border and make checkpost to check so called cross border terrorist from Pakistan which you claim. Of course the Taliban's have no air planes or tanks, they would come through roads, man the boundary, check border crossing. This is what Pakistan is doing. We are sealing our border and making check points Inshallah...

6. afghans must see Pakistan as a country with business potential. All their dreams of Indian economic assistance are like a needle in a hay stack with compare to what Afghanistan and Pakistan can achieve together. Pakistan has a dream of connecting it's ports to Russia and central Asian states. Afghanistan has a chance to get road infrastructure and trillions of dollars of investment , if you only cease Pakistan hatred and work with Pakistan. No one can can stop you from loving India or working with them. But as yourself say , we let India do terrorism , my dear that's not how things work. You cannot clap with one hand.
Afghanistan has to shun anti Pakistan statement. We have to make our own block of central Asian countries. We can connect all countries by road. Can travel without visa just like Europe. But for that you have to accept Pakistan soveranity and shun the hatred which is based on a lie.

7. You don't expect others to help you while to continue to wrong them. You cannot hate others.

 

[TMA]

An excellent read. It is high time that we change our Afghan policy. Back in the 2001, I think our establishment made the grave mis-judgment of thinking Americans won't stay in Afghanistan for long. Whatever regime they setup in Afghanistan will eventually fall to Taliban, and hence we hedged our bets. It has already been 17 years and we have suffered economically and diplomatically because of that mis-judgement.

The fact of the matter is, ANA with Nato air support, will not allow Taliban to hold any major city. We have seen it in case of Kunduz a couple of year ago, Taliban were able to capture the city but could not hold it when the air support arrived. Similarly, while Sangin was a perfect example of how incapable ANA is on its on, but with US air support things always change. Taliban can control the countryside, but Kabul will not fall in the foreseeable future.

Also we have to think about whether we actually want Taliban to take over Afghanistan. I did not agree with Huntington's Clash of Civilization theory in its totality, but in his book one of his point that I agree to was that ever since the Soviet Afghan war, militant groups in Islamic world got a new hope that yes it can be done. Now if US backs down and Kabul falls, what will stop these groups to try the same within Pakistan or Sinkiang, do we really want that.

So instead of hedging our bets on Taliban, we should first try to agree them to a meaningful dialogue with Kabul. And if it all fails, treat them as our enemies. Yes it will be a very controversial stance but in current world scenario we'll have to take it. We can't wait any longer for things to happen.

But my dear Afghan friend, Afghanistan has to change its policies towards us as well. There is a reason we prefer Talibans and religious minded militias in your country over nationalist Afghans. Ever since 1949 when you convened that Loy Jirga to not accept our international border with you guys, we have seen only trouble from our western borders. While the Pushtunistan boogie man is long dead and buried. But unless your leadership openly accepts that they accept the Durand line as an international border, we will continue to see you with doubt. Also Kabul should be ready to give concessions to Taliban if you guys are to have a genuine dialogue.

They would rather see their children die of hunger and women raped before their very own eyes instead of accepting Pakistan.

the problem is Afghanistan refuses to accept Pakistan, it's not the other way around, had it been any other country it would have refused to help Afghanistan in anyway

this isn't new, Afghanistan has refused to accept Pakistan since 1947, IT WAS THE ONLY COUNTRY WHO VOTED AGAINST US IN UN

PAKISTAN DOESNT SUPPORT AFGHNIATSN, ITS THE OPIUM WHO SUPPORTS Taliban world 95% opium is produced in Afghanistan

just google they have killed 100s of Pakistanis and just recently abducted dozen of Pakistanis, they have killed, robbed and even raped in Chitral
there are idiots every where who would support them i mean there are idiots who state world is flat or white supremacy people but that doesn't mean it's the general trend

if you do a referendum on durand line, Afghans will refuse it..so you cant do face saving, you have pumped anti Pakistanisim in them and brain washed them since they were children

Look Afghanistan cannot accept Pakistan. Never and never. They would rather profess disbelief in Allah and his Messenger (PBUH) than accepting Pakistan.

Pakistani should understand this and then develop an approach on this basis.

Fair arguments. Thanks.

My two cents are as follows

1. Afghan state is here to stay. Pakistan should treat it as independent state, who will have relations with others based on her interests, this includes among others India or even Israel. Guarantee should be give to Pak that no third country would use the AF soil against her.
2. Talis are welcome to live in peace in AF, provided they accept the Afghan constitution,women rights, minority rights etc.
3. Durand line should be accepted by AF side. A face saving mechanism would be to have referendum, ask all the Pakhtoons across the Durand Line, majority would side with Pakistan but would be a face mechanism for AF rulers.
4. Open borders, complete opening of commerce and travel between the countries.

3. Never will the Pukhtoons of Afghanistan accept it. Face saving or not.

4. Open borders - are you mad?! After the instability and terrorism. They need to be closed and strict exit/entry points for the benefit of BOTH countries. This is a back door entry into the destruction of Pakistan, it will allow Afghans to to freely move and become a demographic time bomb for Pakistan (which they already are becoming).


Why write such foolishness?

 

[Vapnope]

In that case you missed the entire premise of this article.

I have read the article the thing is that you are denying a simple truth !

 

[Kabira]

Fair arguments. Thanks.

My two cents are as follows

1. Afghan state is here to stay. Pakistan should treat it as independent state, who will have relations with others based on her interests, this includes among others India or even Israel. Guarantee should be give to Pak that no third country would use the AF soil against her.
2. Talis are welcome to live in peace in AF, provided they accept the Afghan constitution,women rights, minority rights etc.
3. Durand line should be accepted by AF side. A face saving mechanism would be to have referendum, ask all the Pakhtoons across the Durand Line, majority would side with Pakistan but would be a face mechanism for AF rulers.
4. Open borders, complete opening of commerce and travel between the countries.

1. This is oxymoron, if Afghanistan had treated Pakitan as independent nation in 1947 then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Tables soon turned when Pakistan shifted its policy towards Afghanistan in 70's. Now its time for Pakistan to change policy but not before guarantee of not going back in era of 60's. Its up to Afghanistan to come up with plan how to convince Pakistan.

2. Taliban are your internal matter.

3. Forget about referendum.

4. Not till Afghanistan become independent.