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Osama Dead. Obama Confirms.

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I dont know how true this is and why it is being written for an Indian newspaper but its relevant.

The undeclared Pak mission
Behind feverish disclaimers lie clues to Islamabad’s co-operation with US in killing Osama​

San Francisco, May 3: There has been a coup d’etat in Pakistan. A quiet one. But it is a coup that may change the course of history not only in South Asia but in the entire Islamic ummah or community.

By giving up Osama bin Laden, the Pakistan Army’s wildest trump card in the cat-and-mouse game between Islamabad and Washington that reached a critical point when CIA contractor Raymond Davis was arrested, factions in the Pakistani establishment which seek a continued alliance with the US have displaced those who want Pakistan to be part of a global Islamic resurgence.

It was a cat-and-mouse game between Langley, the CIA headquarters, and Rawalpindi, seat of the Pakistan Army General Headquarters, which began with the US invasion of Afghanistan in 2001 when the Americans, foolishly trusting Gen. Pervez Musharraf then, enabled the Inter-Services Intelligence to facilitate the safe passage of Osama from the Tora Bora mountains through deceit.

The Americans were to regret their foolishness for a whole decade.

The arrest of Davis in January for killing two men who were widely believed to have been ISI agents, the arrest of at least one other CIA contractor, the denial of visas to American “diplomats” by Pakistan, the near breaking point in ties between the ISI and the CIA — all made it necessary for Pakistan to choose between being dumped by the US for needling them in Afghanistan using its proxies or extending their full and unstinted co-operation to Washington in return for continued military and other assistance.

The army faction that supports a deep alliance with the US has won out and proved its loyalty to Washington.

Contrary to the carefully cultivated perception in Washington and Islamabad about the fallout of killing Osama, a new phase in the US-Pakistan security alliance has been sealed in Abbottabad with the blood of the Saudi billionaire-turned-terrorist.

The best accounts of the operation which killed bin Laden are not to be found in the US media, which is behaving as if it is embedded with the CIA like American journalists were with the US forces during the 2003 invasion of Iraq and swallowed army propaganda for which newspapers like The Washington Post later apologised.

Revealing details about Sunday’s Abbottabad operation are to be found in the Chinese media, especially China’s official news agency, Xinhua, which has no pretensions to media freedom unlike its American counterparts.

The Chinese have the best sources in Pakistan, given the all-weather friendship between Islamabad and Beijing.

Xinhua says electricity was cut off to Abbottabad as the operation to kill Osama began. That shows complicity with the Americans not only within the Army General Headquarters in Rawalpindi but down the line to the local administration that controls the electricity switching stations.

Xinhua says security forces cordoned off the entire area near Osama’s safe house before the Americans attacked it and no one was allowed to enter or leave the operational surroundings during the attack.

That only means the Pakistanis knew what was going to take place, although it is only logical that reasons for sealing off the area would not have been communicated down the line to the local police or paramilitary units.

Xinhua also says residents of Abbottabad took videos and cellphone pictures from their rooftops as the spectacular helicopter landing and firefight was under way.

But Pakistani security forces went round from house to house collecting memory cards from cameras and seizing videos from residents soon enough so that the pictures were not transmitted freelance by what modern TV would call citizen journalists.

All this could not have been organised by the Pakistanis after the event, which means, circumstantially, that the killing of Osama was a well co-ordinated US-Pakistani operation down to local ward-level in Abbottabad.

Besides, Abbottabad is the seat of a brigade of the second division of Pakistan’s Northern Army Corps and several other sensitive army establishments, including a key military training academy.

Metaphorically, even a fly cannot circle the skies of that city without escaping the attention of the defence network that guards Abbottabad.

It is for this reason and to keep up the fiction that the US and Pakistan did not co-operate in killing Osama that an official statement was issued in Islamabad today that “US helicopters entered Pakistani airspace making use of blind spots in the radar coverage due to hilly terrain”.

The statement added that “US helicopters’ undetected flight into Pakistan was also facilitated by the... efficacious use of latest technology and ‘nap of the earth’ flying techniques”.

At the same time, the Pakistan Army did not want its people to lose faith in Rawalpindi as the guardian of their country’s borders and their defence.

Hence, a paragraph in the statement which asserts that “it may not be realistic to draw an analogy between this undefended civilian area and some military (and) security installations which have elaborate local defence arrangements”.

But to think that American helicopters carrying heavily armed personnel who attacked Osama’s hideout could have violated Abbottabad’s air space without help from Pakistan is pure fiction that is meant for the masses who are vulnerable to jihadi sermons in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Inflaming those masses could mean difficulties for the Americans everywhere.

But it is true that “Abbottabad and the surrounding areas have been under sharp focus of intelligence agencies since 2003, resulting in highly technical operation by ISI which led to the arrest of high-value al Qaida target in 2004”, as the statement claims.

Of the greatest significance, however, is the revelation in the statement that “as far as the target compound is concerned, ISI has been sharing information with CIA and other friendly intelligence agencies since 2009. The intelligence flow indicating some foreigners in the surroundings of Abbottabad, continued till mid-April 2011”.

The Pakistani statement is remarkable for its candour between the lines because it is admitting that in April 2011, the ISI stopped sharing information about Osama with the Americans because of strains between their respective intelligence outfits.

As a result, the Americans had to put off their plans to kill or capture bin Laden in mid-April, plans which began when Pakistan shared that intelligence from 2009, because the operation could not be undertaken without Islamabad’s full support.

The internal power struggles in the Pakistani establishment were resolved when it was decided that not only will intelligence co-operation be revived but also that to make up with the Americans, they would sacrifice Osama.

That is tantamount to a coup within Pakistan which paves the way for stronger, better and deeper ties between Pakistan and the US, belying Indian hopes to the contrary.

The Pakistani statement truthfully claims that “reports about US helicopters taking off from Ghazi airbase are absolutely false and incorrect”. The US has enough capabilities for an operation of this kind not to want to use Pakistan’s military facilities.

All it needed was logistics support and unimpeded passage into Abbottabad.

There is irony in the portion of the statement which says the “CIA and some other friendly intelligence agencies have benefited a great deal from the intelligence provided by ISI. ISI’s own achievements against al Qaida and in the war on terror are more than any other intelligence agency in the world”.

There is a ring of truth in it with their sacrifice of their biggest trump card in dealings with the US, namely the world’s most wanted terrorist, Osama.

And finally, some window dressing: “The Government of Pakistan expresses its deep concerns and reservations on the manner in which the Government of the United States carried out this operation without prior information or authorisation from the Government of Pakistan.”

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Frontpage | The undeclared Pak mission
 
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- The ISI guy was speaking from memory, so 2003 or 2004 is the right timeframe.
- The photo from 2004 doesn't mean it was taken in 2004, only that it was posted in 2004 and taken some time before.



Don't forget the Roswell aliens. Bin Laden's hard drive also contains evidence about the Roswell aliens.

Another thing.. the 2004 picture is NOT from google like the other two.. it is from "pentagon".. compromised??
 
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Okay.. now i have questions.. and a lot of them..



Don't know



Shot down from inside the compound.



Unclear.



Because it justy doesn't make sense to capture such a high value target alive for fear of terrorist attacks, hijackings etc.



Unclear.



Injured.



Quite possible that jammers were used on the way out as well.



So you wanted them to build a temple in honour?



It was a big house in that area. Heavily fortified. Surprising how it missed ISI assuming that it did.



That's a silly question.



It's clear. There are different opinions on how to deal with Pakistan on this one in the US.

I would suggest you to read your answers again.. and this time.. please use "brain" and a thing which depends upon it called "logic".. thanks.. e.g. your last statement.. the questions i asked are discripencies in US media.. why?.. they were WATCHING.. so why difference in FACTS? ( as so many claim them to be here )
 
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If I were Pakisthan, we would be busy saving our face from the collective fingerpointing of the World.

Its funny that that your country is in shambles and now left red faced by the OBL operation, but all you can think about is the grand strategic vision of "Strategic Depth" in Afghanisthan and looking for the next fight with India. With this type of attitude only God can save Pakistan.

The ONLY reason for all this DRAMA.. to pressurize Pakistan
 
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Okay.. now i have questions.. and a lot of them..

1. Were there 2 choppers or 4?

2

2. Was one of the choppers shot down or did it landed on "technical problem" basis?

crashed into compound... technical and human error probably..

3. Was Osama armed or unarmed?

Armed

4. If he was unarmed, why was he not captured alive?

Order was to kill OBL

5. If Radars were jammed, why were choppers flying a LOW level flight? what was its need?

no jamming. it evaded due to terrain


6. Was Osama's wife killed or was she injured?

1 killed 1 not.


7. How was it possible, that even if "jammers" were used, AFTER the action was taken the choppers were allowed to go back?

Absolutly.. by the time they reached Pakistan authorities were informed to look somewhere else , not skies.

8. Why was Osama's body disposed off in a hurry?.. i mean they were chasing him for a decade?

They asked many countries , does anybody want it.. so they buried in sea before media catches up so that no loonies make the spot a pilgrimage.


9. Why is building a BIG house (which is a norm in Pakistan) a proof of Osama's living place? (if you go to northern areas, you'll find thousands of such houses)

Ask the ISI and ur establishment.


10. Why is ISI's not knowing a BIG problem when it was CIA's blunder in intelligence in first place which allowed them to carry out 9/11.

LOL.. US admitted themselves that was a big intelligence failure.

11. Why are there so many discripencies in US announcements when they were WATCHING (apparently, though those are just pictures where some people are looking towards one side, they might be watching a baseball game, who knows?)

The whole thing is properly explained except the role of Pakistan.

These are just few questions in a list of hundreds which need to be answered..

where are the other hundred questions???


Oh.. hold on.. i am not suppose to ask them.. cuz then i am "making conspiracy theories" right??.. i am just suppose to "accept" everything cuz its in "American written bible" and i have to accept it b'coz of faith..

LOL..

But sorry.. as i have said many times before.. some of us do use the thing called "brain"..

Use it on the right way, not on how to find any excuse otherwise and looking for options not to believe in all this.

I don't care if Osama is dead or alive.. all i care is.. BRING OUT THE PROOF!!.. not word of some tom dick and harry.. (and that include OBAMA, CLINTON and rest)


Sooon... sooon. it will be shocking.. sooon sooon..
 
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I would suggest you to read your answers again.. and this time.. please use "brain" and a thing which depends upon it called "logic".. thanks.. e.g. your last statement.. the questions i asked are discripencies in US media.. why?.. they were WATCHING.. so why difference in FACTS? ( as so many claim them to be here )

Please excuse me if I relied on your ability to comprehend text in English a bit too much. I'm just not used to debating with 16-17 year olds.

If you're unable to understand what I meant in the last statement, let me make this easy for you,

The US administration is a big entity.

Many people believe many things.

Some people at the top like Obama and Hillary are keeping a somehwat soft approach towards Pakistan.

Others in the State Deptt., in the lower echelons, are giving many inputs to the media, some anonymously and some explicitly.

In a few days' the picture is supposed to be much clearer as the US administration is still working out a coherent policy on how to deal with the Pakistani part of the issue. They also have to keep in mind the reactions of their own public, the Congress as well as many Senators.

The policy on aid to Pakistan is being thought over.

As I said, we should wait for a few days for the finer details to emerge. As of now, only a handful of things are clear.
 
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- The ISI guy was speaking from memory, so 2003 or 2004 is the right timeframe.
- The photo from 2004 doesn't mean it was taken in 2004, only that it was posted in 2004 and taken some time before.
Well, I expect ISI Officials to be more circumspect and verifying of details before answering questions (instead of depending on memory) at least in cases where the agency's intentions itself are increasingly coming under question in this Bin laden affair -- or is it expecting too much from them ?
and why should anyone believe that the labeled Image shall be showing a "posted" date instead of the "taken" date unless you think that forumers here are gullible idiots ?
Don't forget the Roswell aliens. Bin Laden's hard drive also contains evidence about the Roswell aliens.
So according to you , ISI and Bin Laden were two mutually exclusive water tight compartments with no interactions what so ever when 9/11 happened ?
Please clarify?
 
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ISLAMABAD: Pakistani authorities on Wednesday arrested the contractor who built the three-storey mansion in Pakistan's northern city of Abbottabad where Osama bin Laden was residing, intelligence sources said.

Gul Madah, aged between 45-50, a native of Battagram town, about 35 km north of Abbottabad, constructed the house in 2005. He was picked by intelligence agencies from Abbotabad's Jharian locality and shifted to undisclosed location, sources said.

Bin Laden's hideout in a six-kanal compound close to Pakistan's military facilities has led to widespread speculation that the former al-Qaida leader's whereabouts had been known to the Pakistani government.


Contractor who built Osama's house taken into custody - The Times of India


LOL :lol:
 
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ISLAMABAD: Pakistani authorities on Wednesday arrested the contractor who built the three-storey mansion in Pakistan's northern city of Abbottabad where Osama bin Laden was residing, intelligence sources said.

Gul Madah, aged between 45-50, a native of Battagram town, about 35 km north of Abbottabad, constructed the house in 2005. He was picked by intelligence agencies from Abbotabad's Jharian locality and shifted to undisclosed location, sources said.

Bin Laden's hideout in a six-kanal compound close to Pakistan's military facilities has led to widespread speculation that the former al-Qaida leader's whereabouts had been known to the Pakistani government.


Contractor who built Osama's house taken into custody - The Times of India


LOL :lol:

AB PACHTAAYE HOT KYA JAB CHIDIYA CHUGH GAYI KHET. :lol:
 
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Another thing.. the 2004 picture is NOT from google like the other two.. it is from "pentagon".. compromised??

So Pentagon prophesied before hand the reply of the ISI official about a "raid" in 2003 and released the Image with a fudged date a good day before the ISI official's story of a "raid" ?
 
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From all that I have read, I will try to quell your doubts:

1. Were there 2 choppers or 4?

There were 3, one stayed, two left.

2. Was one of the choppers shot down or did it landed on "technical problem" basis?

Had mechanical problems. Quite a few eyewitnesses (I mean those in the area that heard though all of it), give the same account - Problematic noises from the choppers, then a big thud. When they thought it was all over, a big bang that almost shattered windows around. So the chopper had mechanical problems, came down. And they planted an explosive device to explode soon after they had left. Besides, Osama was a fan of AKs, and its not easy to bring down military helicopters with just AKs.

3. Was Osama armed or unarmed?

He never shied away from showing off his AK. He was always armed, and I bet he slept with his AK in the bed too.

5. If Radars were jammed, why were choppers flying a LOW level flight? what was its need?

Radars were not jammed, if they were jammed, the security forces of Pakistan would immediately scramble their own choppers and planes, even if they knew what was going on, out of the fear that anyone else too could take advantage of that jamming. Besides, they came from Jalalabad and went back the same route - that's a long flight inside Pakistan.

6. Was Osama's wife killed or was she injured?

One was killed one was injured, one is fine.

7. How was it possible, that even if "jammers" were used, AFTER the action was taken the choppers were allowed to go back?

Gone back... all the way to Jalalabad through Manshera - Was all planned with PA complicit in it.

8. Why was Osama's body disposed off in a hurry?.. i mean they were chasing him for a decade?

To make this event die down as quickly as possible. The more it lingers, the more it will be talked about, and the greater number of sympathizers it will garner. Osama's killing would become counterproductive if it is shown as the most prized possession of the US. He would have ended up doing more damage in death than he could when he was alive.

9. Why is building a BIG house (which is a norm in Pakistan) a proof of Osama's living place? (if you go to northern areas, you'll find thousands of such houses)

To accommodate the big guy who was so involved with an active Al Qaeda that had various unfulfilled plans/objectives. Also, he always keeps his family close, which had become too big of course. And finally, it is easy to defend yourself inside a big house, in case a battle ensues, than in a small one.

Two more things:

1. You say it is a norm, then why do you ask why? Best is to use what is the norm, right?

2. The reports are saying much different from what you say here: The houses around are much smaller than this one, which costs over a million dollars. So is it a norm in Pakistan to live in a million-dollar house? Sounds like Pakistan is the richest state in the world - a little too much, don't you think?

10. Why is ISI's not knowing a BIG problem when it was CIA's blunder in intelligence in first place which allowed them to carry out 9/11.
- Didn't understand that.


11. Why are there so many discripencies in US announcements when they were WATCHING (apparently, though those are just pictures where some people are looking towards one side, they might be watching a baseball game, who knows?)

There is only one purpose for such pictures - Portrayal of the governing party to be used at the time of elections. Otherwise, if you are doing a job - fine, what is the need to take pictures? Will taking such pictures help kill Osama more quickly?

Oh.. hold on.. i am not suppose to ask them.. cuz then i am "making conspiracy theories" right??.. i am just suppose to "accept" everything cuz its in "American written bible" and i have to accept it b'coz of faith..

No theory is a conspiracy theory if it is based on logic and reasoning with a complete info on the affairs. If your theories are based on flawed logic or show off info gaps, then they do become conspiracy theories.


I don't care if Osama is dead or alive.. all i care is.. BRING OUT THE PROOF!!.. not word of some tom dick and harry.. (and that include OBAMA, CLINTON and rest)

It is best to play down such an event. The ISI and PA are pissed at the Americans right now, and I firmly believe the ISI has had the best knowledge on whereabouts of Osama. So if by any chance it was not Osama they killed, the ISI would have called the bluff right away and saved itself the embarrassment and supposed looming threat of the Al Qaeda.
 
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So Pentagon prophesied before hand the reply of the ISI official about a "raid" in 2003 and released the Image with a fudged date a good day before the ISI official's story of a "raid" ?

Mate.. Photoshop is a pretty "handy" tool.. if you know what i mean
 
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times of india has started a full propaganda against Pakistan ...
 
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AB PACHTAAYE HOT KYA JAB CHIDIYA CHUGH GAYI KHET. :lol:

The contractor wont be having any idea on who is living/ who is gonna live. Its a wasted effort.. who next painter? electrician?

The best is look in for people in locality who are part of the 5 year living.. like the chain of couriers..who brought commodities, informations, etc..
 
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