Original words of Donald Lu in Cipher

[Amaa'n]

So where is the threat or conspiracy in these words, if indeed true?

This sounds more like a policy statement from a country that is expressing its response as a sovereign nation to a constitutional procedure in a democratic country. If the vote failed, exPMIK would have been isolated from USA, and correctly so, given his well known utterances. If he were voted out, USA would be willing to make a new start with whoever replaced him. Perfectly logical.

Surely, no one is naïve enough to think that exPMIK should have been free to do whatever he pleased without international repercussions. In other words, do the deeds as you wish, but then be prepared for the fallout too. ExPMIK never received a call from the White House even before all this, so it was not like he was in good graces to begin with, and then he chose to forge his own way forward as the headstrong man that he was, and is.

Simple enough. No conspiracy or complaints needed.

"We will take the issue head on" - that is also policy statement

 

[Thinker3]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514618659750105093

DG ISPR said there was no conspiracy but interference, which means they were overtly doing things, which was visible to all, like Bilawal going to the US soon after Absolutely not, US Diplomats meeting with opposition members, PTI allies, and PTI members, and many more things that former Government and Army know. They were so arrogant they did not even think it was needed to change the regime covertly, so instead of conspiracy, it was a direct interference. Ya Allah.

 

[313ghazi]

True in a ideal world. Even in USA we saw not long ago a crack apear between Trump and his generals that was big enough for Titanic to sail through. At times it sounded to near refusal of the generals to follow what Trump wanted.

Hey! Long time no see.

 

[Goritoes]

Actual words of Donald Lu : Ammi ne kaha hai Imran ke sath nai khelna kyun ke woh humesha batting ker ke bhaag jata hai..Jisko Imran ki team mai rehna hai tu rahe, mai apni ball aur wickets le ker nai aonga jab tak Imran ko team se nai nikalte.

 

[SEOminati]

For all ranty rona doing people k IK is a liar go and watch what Lieutenant (R) Amjad is saying on his YouTube channel.

 

[crankthatskunk]

I cannot believe that PA is trying to twist it.
The foreign interference happened in the vaccum!!
No interference can happen in the vaccum, unless it has helpers and abaters in place to execute their interference.
Thus it is automatically a conspiracy.
What the hack, PA is desperate to twist it in their favour, after seeing people's emotions.
They are going down dangerous path, which would lead to their complete destruction in the eyes of pakistani people.
Most Pakistanis already think, and most here too that Bajwa was part of thee conspiracy, without shadow of a doubt.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Original words of Donald Lu as per shireen mazari:

"If the vote of no confidence does not succeeded and Prime minister Imran Khan remains in office, He will be isolated from US and we will take the issue head on.

If the vote of no confidence succeeds, all will be forgiven."

How come Pakistan army let this happen after reading this

Literally heart breaking for me

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514671611118600197

Now it has become imperative more than ever to destroy PMLN/PPP/MQM and make sure PTI is back in power.

 

[VCheng]

"We will take the issue head on" - that is also policy statement

With all due respect, Sir, what did you, or exPMIK expect to hear? "We are so afraid of the principled stance of the Khan, that the senile Biden will simply raise his hands and run away crying like a little girl, so please carry on doing whatever it is that you wish to do, totally unopposed"?

Surely, the thought must have (or should have) crossed the mind of a statesman like exPMIK what would his fallback position be if his increasingly boisterous bluffs (no matter how principled or attractive) would be actually called out in the game of international geopolitics. Talking the talk is easy, but walking the actual walk is not, specially when the other side is prepared to push back in return and one's own economy is running on empty already even before push comes to shove.

May be exPMIK thought that his nation was ready for a total economic collapse and would be able to deal with such a scenario with success by relying on help from certain quarters?

One would like to have hoped that the wise counsel available to exPMIK would have been heeded to well before time, before things came to such a head at all. Such is the actual art of diplomacy.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Its quite possible establishment decided to play neutral after USA stance. But point still stands, Imran Khan went too far in appeasing the taliban that have only resulted in more terrorist attacks in Pakistan post withdraw. A point which he doesn't address at all. Right now Pakistan is going through war on terror 2.0. Not to forget Taliban have gone back on every promise which IK made to the world.

Pakistanis need to be careful here. IK is arrogant, he is not typical Pak politician that will change parties on a whim and maintain working relations with all. He doesn't even want to talk with opposition at all and have declared all of them traitors. Don't become North Korea and Iran just to appease his ego and turn public against USA. Though I'm pretty sure establishment/elite in Pakistan state institutions will not allow him to go that far. After all when was the last time SC opened at night just to see if orders where being implemented?

Anyone who believes establishment didn't play role is lying. USA threat was open and not conspiracy. PTI need to make sure this point get crossed. But at the same time after winning election, IK need to appease taliban less and USA more just for economic reasons.

 

[Amaa'n]

With all due respect, Sir, what did you, or exPMIK expect to hear? "We are so afraid of the principled stance of the Khan, that the senile Biden will simply raise his hands and run away crying like a little girl, so please carry on doing whatever it is that you wish to do, totally unopposed"?

Surely, the thought must have (or should have) crossed the mind of a statesman like exPMIK what would his fallback position be if his increasingly boisterous bluffs (no matter how principled or attractive) would be actually called out in the game of international geopolitics. Talking the talk is easy, but walking the actual walk is not, specially when the other side is prepared to push back in return and one's own economy is running on empty already even before push comes to shove.

May be exPMIK thought that his nation was ready for a total economic collapse and would be able to deal with such a scenario with success by relying on help from certain quarters?

One would like to have hoped that the wise counsel available to exPMIK would have been heeded to well before time, before things came to such a head at all. Such is the actual art of diplomacy.

I hear you and that was the perspective of the then Prime Minister, my comment was merely an attempt to put forward complete facts for the sake of discussion.
Since i believe in the supremacy of Law here is what i came across on Interference vs Conspiracy

Diplomatic intervention​

The diplomatic measures generally do not amount to an illegal interference, but may be considered as a forbidden intervention, if they involve communications of threatening tone, use of military or other coercive measures. Generally, the diplomatic measures against other states are declared as unfriendly acts rather than illegal interventions. Therefore, some jurists believe that diplomatic measures, such as good offices, mediation, recall of ambassador, and conciliation, cannot even be regarded as unfriendly acts, as these are permitted under the UN Charter, whereas others consider it as diplomatic intervention. The practice has shown that the maximum number of diplomatic interventions is through mediation by third parties or recalling of ambassador.
The mediators enter into a conflict to amend, modify, change, or influence the result of any situation. The mediator can represent a state or a nonstate actor. The offers to mediate represent an explicit offer from a third party and are recorded on the date of the offer. The recall of an ambassador occurs when the intervening government calls its diplomatic representatives home, either permanently or for consultations, and generally such recall is due to the behavior of the intervened state in its internal conflict. A study has shown that in total there were 403 diplomatic interventions; 332 were mediations and 5 were recalls of diplomatic representation. Each of these observations reflects external efforts to influence the course of the conflict through diplomatic channels (Regan & Aydin, 2006).

Reference: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244019840911

In the first meaning, intervention implies examination, discussion and the subsequent recommendatory action. In the second place, intervention means taking measures which are aimed at coercing but which fall short of the use of force and finally intervention refers to the use of force in the domestic affairs of another nation or state.

Reference: https://www.lawteacher.net/free-law...-domestic-affairs-international-law-essay.php

 

[Sayfullah]

WHO THE HELL IS USA TO “FORGIVE” US OR PUNISH US ?!
This is what happens when we go far away from Islam. We only fear Allah and only Allah can punish and forgive us. Usa is not our god that we go around worshipping them but sadly many in Pakistani elite and establishment made usa their god.
Usa gives us one threat and our establishment and elite bend over for them. Do these guys not fear Allah?!

It’s also Pakistan’s fault for being bullied about “sanctions”. Pakistan failed to capture markets in GCC, Central Asia and China.
Pakistan needs to put focus and exporting more to China, GCC, Central Asia, Africa, South America and South East Asia. We shouldn’t rely too heavily on American markets that they blackmail us. We are located in such a place geographically that we can easily dominate GCC, Chinese, Central Asian and East African markets. We should head towards self reliance.

Allah is our god. We only worship Allah, we only fear Allah, we only ask for forgiveness from Allah and we’re only slaves of Allah.

“So, surely with hardship comes ease.”
- Quran 94:5

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

conspiracy i

blatant interference is overt
and conspiracy is covert

What we saw wrt US was overt in nature ....Americans openly meeting the particular MNAs who left PTI and influencing other parties.
There would be conspiracy if the covert aspects of it are established by a judicial commision found in coming time.. Thats why it was not in the NSC note. What Pti calls conspiracy is how the courts bureaucracy colluded with US for this regime change.

 

[Patriot forever]

With all due respect, Sir, what did you, or exPMIK expect to hear? "We are so afraid of the principled stance of the Khan, that the senile Biden will simply raise his hands and run away crying like a little girl, so please carry on doing whatever it is that you wish to do, totally unopposed"?

Surely, the thought must have (or should have) crossed the mind of a statesman like exPMIK what would his fallback position be if his increasingly boisterous bluffs (no matter how principled or attractive) would be actually called out in the game of international geopolitics. Talking the talk is easy, but walking the actual walk is not, specially when the other side is prepared to push back in return and one's own economy is running on empty already even before push comes to shove.

May be exPMIK thought that his nation was ready for a total economic collapse and would be able to deal with such a scenario with success by relying on help from certain quarters?

One would like to have hoped that the wise counsel available to exPMIK would have been heeded to well before time, before things came to such a head at all. Such is the actual art of diplomacy.

The issue is not simple as that..
IK has never been hostile with US, he defended Pakistan interest.
The same IK had excellent working relation with Donald Trump.
( The problem here is senile Joe).

Afghanistan..
It all started after US making Pakistan the scapegoat or punching bag to vent its anger. They vilified Pakistan. Pakistan simply responded to the accusations in straight forward tone directly.

The reason was US was not able to exert influence on Pakistan as it used to.

The US bases story is correct ( Don't know why ISPR denied it)

On 6th of June CIA chief Burns travelled to Pakistan and asked for drone bases and anti terrorism cooperation. ( I still remember he wanted to meet PM but IK declined to meet). They returned empty handed. Reported in Dawn as well and was discussed on social media as well.

On 19th June PM said ' Absolutely not' when asked the question.

This deteriorated the situation further. From Oct/Nov there were rumors of conspiracy and people/anchors including establishment tout Kamran Khan, Haroon Rasheed, Sethi and few others explicitly saying ' IK has been given time uptil March'. Government will be removed in March.

The famous back to back meeting of US chancellor ( I think the lady) and much advertised meetings with Maryam Nawaz and Shehbaz Sharif. Their pet journalists started saying America is now on plmn side. ( Remember the same day China foreign minister tweeted in favour of IK).

The Russia visit.

Later on countless reports of US ambassy staff mettings with many parliamentarians including with low key ones with no relevance like 'Riaz' or 'Noor alam khan'. Aleem Khan after meeting which he posted on his Facebook page ( post removed afterwards) gave resignation to IK a week afterwards.

Than the letter ' meeting minutes' was received before the NCV announcement and the very next day opposition announced NCV.
Shahbaz Sharif famously said when NCV was announced ' WHY DID YOU SAY ABSOLUTELY NOT'.
Maryam Nawaz and Ranasanaullah explicitly admitted Nawaz Sharif meeting with foreign agency people in London.

The post can go on for many more paragraphs if each minor thing in the chain of events is listed.

It's just a short summary, to help get the point across.

@HRK @Foxtrot Alpha @PanzerKiel

Please do the minor corrections if there are any.

IMO the letter/message was not addressed to IK, but the establishment.

It was a go ahead to put the plan in motion.
The establishment was on board.
Remember how due to OIC conference plan was put on hold, how establishment gave message to its puppies to not disrupt the conference and let it conclude in peace.

It was a collaborated coup with multiple actors.

The courts are just arm twisted whenever they are needed.

 

[SD 10]

Original words of Donald Lu as per shireen mazari:

"If the vote of no confidence does not succeeded and Prime minister Imran Khan remains in office, He will be isolated from US and we will take the issue head on.

If the vote of no confidence succeeds, all will be forgiven."

How come Pakistan army let this happen after reading this

Literally heart breaking for me

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514671611118600197

doob ka mar jao army walo .............. ab helicopter ka liay mulk bech dia tum logon na!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Madni Bappa]

DGISPR has told us there was no foreign conspiracy, only involvement.

In related news, he also announced that the Indian BrahMos missile did not commit transgression. It was merely on an unannounced sight-seeing mission in Pakistan.

This man singlehandedly is erasing all the hard work Asim Bajwa and Asif Ghafoor did over 6 long years.


What a clown