Organising Razakaars and Regional Militias of Pakistan.

[GumNaam]

These Militias have already existed for decades under loose central command. Most of them are day to day common workers. They have been held together under allegiance of their tribal chiefs,pirs,maliks and religious organisations.

I agree with you but at least start with the NCC the enemy has restored NCC on their side.

yeah the "loose" commands of tribal leaders, pirs, maliks & mullahs are the problem...give them the tiniest amount of muscle power and they expect to be appeased with the black mail of turning their respective militias against the state. Not gonna happen! There should BE no "militia". They should be disciplined military reservists under the direct command of the armed forces & their actual numbers should be kept as a closely guarded secret.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

yeah the "loose" commands of tribal leaders, pirs, maliks & mullahs are the problem...give them the tiniest amount of muscle power and they expect to be appeased with the black mail of turning their respective militias against the state. Not gonna happen! There should BE no "militia". They should be disciplined military reservists under the direct command of the armed forces & their actual numbers should be kept as a closely guarded secret.

None of them will be allowed to hold armed men unless they are under the patronage of the state. Each militia is accounted for in GHQ. I recall the late Pir Pagaro used to call himself a man of GHQ.

 

[GumNaam]

None of them will be allowed to hold armed men unless they are under the patronage of the state. Each militia is accounted for in GHQ. I recall the late Pir Pagaro used to call himself a man of GHQ.

I think you didn't understand what I'm trying to say. What I am saying is that just don't go towards a militia regardless of what the state and militia head's understanding is, cuz then, there will ALWAYS be an opportunity for them to go rogue. it is BEST to keep them AS a PART of the mlitary, AS well trained & well disciplined reservists with DIRECT control and accountability to the military, not INDIRECTLY through through some militia tribal or religious head. if that was effective, isreal would've made militias headed by rabbis instead of making the population directly a part of the army as reservists.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

I think you didn't understand what I'm trying to say. What I am saying is that just don't go towards a militia regardless of what the state and militia head's understanding is, cuz then, there will ALWAYS be an opportunity for them to go rogue. it is BEST to keep them AS a PART of the mlitary, AS well trained & well disciplined reservists with DIRECT control and accountability to the military, not INDIRECTLY through through some militia tribal or religious head. if that was effective, isreal would've made militias headed by rabbis instead of making the population directly a part of the army as reservists.

Its a good idea but i think their affiliations is more with their local boss. It will be hard for them to take orders from others. Saying that some mechanism of centralising them can be devised unless GHQ themselves want them loosely tied!!!!

 

[GumNaam]

Its a good idea but i think their affiliations is more with their local boss. It will be hard for them to take orders from others. Saying that some mechanism of centralising them can be devised unless GHQ themselves want them loosely tied!!!!

no, pretty sure GHQ doesn't want anyone loosely tied to anything. if their affliations or loyalties are more with the local boss than the country then we don't need them. they can stay home and play patty cakes. We ONLY want those who is affiliated DIRECTLY with the military and is under the direct command & control of the military's hierarchical structure. no go between local bosses.

 

[Signalian]

Pakistan requires volunteers for emergency medical training, fire fighting, collapse structure search & rescue, high angle & confined space rescue, water rescue and other emergency management skills.

Brandishing a gun doesn't make an individual a soldier who can fight in combat conditions.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

no, pretty sure GHQ doesn't want anyone loosely tied to anything. if their affliations or loyalties are more with the local boss than the country then we don't need them. they can stay home and play patty cakes. We ONLY want those who is affiliated DIRECTLY with the military and is under the direct command & control of the military's hierarchical structure. no go between local bosses.

In the past the Waziris nearly reached Srinagar under the command of their Maliks in 1948. The Hurs captured areas and forts in Rajisthan in 1965. JI affiliated groups the razakaars helped the East Pakistan garison in 1971.

Pakistan requires volunteers for emergency medical training, fire fighting, collapse structure search & rescue, high angle & confined space rescue, water rescue and other emergency management skills.

Brandishing a gun doesn't make an individual a soldier who can fight in combat conditions.

Well said, since our Generals are still making up their minds maybe a civilian army of volunteers can invade Kashmir as did their predecessors in 1948.!!!!

 

[Signalian]

Well said, since our Generals are still making up their minds maybe a civilian army of volunteers can invade Kashmir as did their predecessors in 1948.!!!!

Military has trained men and equipment at their disposal. Its the civilian government that needs trained resources along with useful equipment.

 

[GumNaam]

In the past the Waziris nearly reached Srinagar under the command of their Maliks in 1948. The Hurs captured areas and forts in Rajisthan in 1965. JI affiliated groups the razakaars helped the East Pakistan garison in 1971.


Well said, since our Generals are still making up their minds maybe a civilian army of volunteers can invade Kashmir as did their predecessors in 1948.!!!!

Yeah, we aren't living in those days. today, militias have developed a taste for being able to blackmail the state given the recent past 15 years. We are NOT gonna go back their again...either they work under the direct command & control of the armed forces or they can stay home. no third option.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Military has trained men and equipment at their disposal. Its the civilian government that needs trained resources along with useful equipment.

As i recall we do have volunteers for Civil defence in time of need. But regarding the quality of the equipment the state is really pathetic. We dont have enough and up to date bomb disposal kits as an example. Can our hospitals cater for the flurry of causalities is a big question mark.
I know the military hospitals are better equipped. But if we are to go by western standards we are probably decades away.

Yeah, we aren't living in those days. today, militias have developed a taste for being able to blackmail the state given the recent past 15 years. We are NOT gonna go back their again...either they work under the direct command & control of the armed forces or they can stay home. no third option.

Unlike the paramilitaries where an individual gets paid,for these Lashkars and militias i think the state pays stipends or royalties to their chieftain directly.

 

[Kabira]

No thanks, no need to arm more terrorists or worse petty criminals. Army is eating all of Pakistan budget, they still need terrorists to fight war then dhoob ke mar jao.

 

[GumNaam]

As i recall we do have volunteers for Civil defence in time of need. But regarding the quality of the equipment the state is really pathetic. We dont have enough and up to date bomb disposal kits as an example. Can our hospitals cater for the flurry of causalities is a big question mark.
I know the military hospitals are better equipped. But if we are to go by western standards we are probably decades away.


Unlike the paramilitaries where an individual gets paid,for these Lashkars and militias i think the state pays stipends or royalties to their chieftain directly.

every isreali citizen is a reservist infantryman & required to train once a month...they don't get paid either. Just make a law & a system where everyone above the age of 15 is a reservist & must train once a month. Given the loyalty people have to the country & given the prevailing global conditions, I'm sure most people would not object. the problem arises with those stipends & royalties paid to the chieftans...they get greedy & try to blackmail the state.

 

[El Sidd]

#VolunteersForHumanity
#VoluhteersForKaschmir

every isreali citizen is a reservist infantryman & required to train once a month...they don't get paid either. Just make a law & a system where everyone above the age of 15 is a reservist & must train once a month. Given the loyalty people have to the country & given the prevailing global conditions, I'm sure most people would not object. the problem arises with those stipends & royalties paid to the chieftans...they get greedy & try to blackmail the state.

Its a long war. It could be "coming of age" exercise for young blood.

Liberating Kashmir is a long tall task but alhumdulilah we are equipped adequately

 

[Signalian]

As i recall we do have volunteers for Civil defence in time of need. But regarding the quality of the equipment the state is really pathetic. We dont have enough and up to date bomb disposal kits as an example. Can our hospitals cater for the flurry of causalities is a big question mark.
I know the military hospitals are better equipped. But if we are to go by western standards we are probably decades away.

There are plenty of troops with related light, medium and heavy equipment assigned to Regular forces.

In terms of Training and exposure to combat :
Tier 1 - Regular Infantry, Armor, Artillery etc of PA.
Tier 2 - NG (Janbaz and Mujahid Force)
Tier 3 - Rangers, FC and Scouts.
Tier 4 - Levies, Constabulary and Police.

The tribals or lashkars that you want to create will get decimated against regular IA and BSF in combat. The 1948 example is not invalid since when IA regulars started to fly into the valley, the tables turned on tribals and other rag tag forces.

There are more useful ways to depute human resources and man power. Fight crime by making neighborhood watch personnel. Most cities of Pakistan have pollution and cleanliness issues even in presence of Municipal committees, allocate human resources for effective cleaning of all cities. These are just basic points.

 

[GumNaam]

There are plenty of troops with related light, medium and heavy equipment assigned to Regular forces.

In terms of Training and exposure to combat :
Tier 1 - Regular Infantry, Armor, Artillery etc of PA.
Tier 2 - NG (Janbaz and Mujahid Force)
Tier 3 - Rangers, FC and Scouts.
Tier 4 - Levies, Constabulary and Police.

The tribals or lashkars that you want to create will get decimated against regular IA and BSF in combat. The 1948 example is not invalid since when IA regulars started to fly into the valley, the tables turned on tribals and other rag tag forces.

There are more useful ways to depute human resources and man power. Fight crime by making neighborhood watch personnel. Most cities of Pakistan have pollution and cleanliness issues even in presence of Municipal committees, allocate human resources for effective cleaning of all cities. These are just basic points.

Rangers, FC & Scouts are tier 2.Hanbaaz & Mujahid force are tier 3. And your right...it takes a lot more than a rifle & a few clips...hence the greater reason to train the entire nation as trained, disciplined soldiers & infantrymen.