Operation Trident and Python - 1971 , Did Navy take those losses

[SQ8]

Can you expand on that, i heard of this incident quite a while ago but it has totally slipped out of my mind.

The exact comment was " Oh, What a lovely bonfire".

 

[ares]

Actually WindJammer is correct in this case.

An Indian merchant ship broke down and drifted into Pakistan's EEZ. PN made it clear that any intrusion by IN vessels would be declared hostile and would be dealt with full force. USN offered to toe the Indian vessel which was accepted by both India and Pakistan.

EEZ is international waters. Pakistan's EEZ extends upto 200 Nautical Miles from Pakistan's base line(coast line for all intents and purposes.) or upto the continental shelf . Pakistan has no rights in their, except exclusive drilling and fishing rights.
It is hard believe, Pakistan was able threaten a vessel in its EEZ.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The fact is that there is absolutely no evidence of the sub sinking linked to "Indian laid" depth charge. The line you highlighted talked about "depth charges laid by the sub itself" [It was upgraded in Turkey for laying depth charges] NOT "Indian laid depth charges". Read again if you have little comprehension skills left.

You seem to be more confused than you bargain for. The INS Ranjit fired (not laid) Depth Charges in the outer approaches to Vishakhapatnam Harbor. Now the PN knew (or had been led to believe) that the carrier INS Vikrant was in Vishakhapatnam hence the PNS Ghazi was tasked to operate there and way-lay her. The Ghazi had been modified in Turkey to lay mines (not depth-charges) under an arrangement done by the US and Turkey (a CENTO member) on behalf of and under directions of the US. This was done because of the poor 'material state' of Ghazi which would not permit a long 'open ocean passage' across the Atlantic to Groton, CT. So what happened to the Sanctions that you were speaking of, eh?

The Ghazi made the long passage to the East Coast of India before the commencement of actual hostilities to hit Vikrant. It so happened that the IN knew of her presence there (but not exact location). First from tracking wireless chatter and then later when the PN codes were compromised by Bengali Submariners in France who were training for the Daphnes. So the IN set up an elaborate charade to lure Ghazi off Vishakhapatnam while sending off Vikrant and most of the Eastern Fleet to N.Andamans.

Now the plan was that the Ghazi would lay mines off the approaches that would sink the Vikrant on departing port. But the 'bird had already flown", so to speak. The Ghazi was engaged in minelaying and the INS Ranjit was engaged in routine Harbor Approach Patrols (accompanied by routine depth charging) which is part of such patrols, when these series of explosions happened. Remember that the depths there are very low, so the concussive effects of depth charges are even greater. The evidence found by IN Navy Divers indicates that the Ghazi was ripped open by an internal explosion which opened up the forward ends. So it is being speculated that one of Ghazi's own mines blew up. But what triggered that explosion, if it was so? The mines inside the hull of the sub were not "armed". Mines would have been armed by either timer or acquostic devices being set after the mines exited the torpedo tubes of Ghazi. That is where the likely-hood of the mine(s) being triggered by the concussion of repititive Depth Charging is considered.

BTW; @Joe Shearer can tell us something about this probably. His late uncle happened to be the then DNI at NHQ and had a major role in planning the ops. I knew other 'dramatis personae' around it.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Actually WindJammer is correct in this case.

An Indian merchant ship broke down and drifted into Pakistan's EEZ. PN made it clear that any intrusion by IN vessels would be declared hostile and would be dealt with full force. USN offered to toe the Indian vessel which was accepted by both India and Pakistan.

Yeah really? And what about the other Windy Tale. About the Indian Navy Carrier anchoring(?) in Pakistani Territoral waters? Do tell us about it. With some substantiating evidence of course...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

i wasnt serious earlier. takes a lot more than that to hurt my feelings.
and gained from documentaries, countless articles and simulations. but i suspect your knowledge in these operations are greater than mine. but i would like to test it. are you aware of the friendly fire PAF made after OP Trident?

Yes I am aware of that. Now tell us more from "my knowledge on general warfare is massive ".
I might learn a thing or two. And I'm always willing to learn. In the hope of amassing some 'massive knowledge, sometime'.

 

[OrionHunter]

Since you knocked out the Pak Navy cold, why didn't Indian navy stepped on the shores of Karachi...?

And why would the IN want to do that? What would it have achieved by stepping into Karachi? They don't just lay out plans for publicity and brownie points. The aim in any war is to destroy the war potential and destruction of military assets. And that the Indians achieved.

 

[Shinigami]

Yes I am aware of that. Now tell us more from "my knowledge on general warfare is massive ".
I might learn a thing or two. And I'm always willing to learn. In the hope of amassing some 'massive knowledge, sometime'.

ah! "massive" is a relative term. but sure i'll help. i would also like to pick your brain sometime. any details of indo pak war is a gem to me and you seem to have plenty of those

 

[foxbat]

C'mon folks. How does it matter whether Ghazi was hit by a depth charge or its own ammo exploded or even if its crew crashed it.. The crux of the story is that Ghazi was lost during its operation against IN. For the purpose of this discussion that should be enough.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

ah! "massive" is a relative term. but sure i'll help. i would also like to pick your brain sometime. any details of indo pak war is a gem to me and you seem to have plenty of those

HeHeHe; you might find "picking my pockets" to be easier than "picking my brains".
But I would be careful before making some sweeping statements......

 

[Dash]

I sometimes wonder why PNS Ghazi was sent to Indian littoral waters to sink a ship. I mean the planning and not the task.

 

[sree45]

I sometimes wonder why PNS Ghazi was sent to Indian littoral waters to sink a ship. I mean the planning and not the task.

Pakistan believes more in Moral victories and defeats rather than winning the war.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I sometimes wonder why PNS Ghazi was sent to Indian littoral waters to sink a ship. I mean the planning and not the task.

There was a reason for Ghazi's deployment. In the hope of sinking Vikrant. Also the Ghazi was the only warship in the PN fleet that had the range to reach the East Coast unrefuelled. Though as a conventional sub of that vintage; that meant that she would have to surface frequently to reach there. Which she used to do at night. Also remember that she did that transit before hostilities commenced which was easier. After commencement of war operations; it would have been a very different "ball-game" for her to make that voyage.

 

[Windjammer]

EEZ is international waters. Pakistan's EEZ extends upto 200 Nautical Miles from Pakistan's base line(coast line for all intents and purposes.) or upto the continental shelf . Pakistan has no rights in their, except exclusive drilling and fishing rights.
It is hard believe, Pakistan was able threaten a vessel in its EEZ.

It has happened in peacetime let alone during hostilities.

India turns its back on 25 sailors jailed in Pakistan... even though their sentences are FINISHED | Mail Online

 

[SQ8]

There was a reason for Ghazi's deployment. In the hope of sinking Vikrant. Also the Ghazi was the only warship in the PN fleet that had the range to reach the East Coast unrefuelled. Though as a conventional sub of that vintage; that meant that she would have to surface frequently to reach there. Which she used to do at night. Also remember that she did that transit before hostilities commenced which was easier. After commencement of war operations; it would have been a very different "ball-game" for her to make that voyage.

Considering her obsolescence and that there was only one of her..Pakistan asked too much of her.

 

[Shinigami]

HeHeHe; you might find "picking my pockets" to be easier than "picking my brains".
But I would be careful before making some sweeping statements......

in my quest to be factual i sometimes sound vain

Considering her obsolescence and that there was only one of her..Pakistan asked too much of her.

on the contrary, what was asked was exactly expected of her. subs are meant to operate exactly like ghazi was used by PN

the failure however happened due to the success of indian counter intelligence. BR gives the entire story in detail. amazing read