Operation Swift Retort section at PAF Museum Faisal

[xyx007]

How many people died?
They fed and kept 93000 others healthy, nobody is going to believe this story.

Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on the ground in former east-Pakistan. So were the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

The undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground was around 27,000. More troops were sent from West Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose).
The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.
This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?

According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.

“The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

“The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

“At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”.

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated


“It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”.

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,

“Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”

K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said


“Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”.

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts

“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

“Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,

“The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”

The higher number talked about was a deliberate attempt to defame and demoralize the Pakistani army, to demonstrate to the world extent of an Indian victory. It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000 as per your media propaganda become supermen, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by the Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of. I salute my brave Pak Army because this one corp of 45000 soldiers pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained India Terriost Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants.


Gurram Madhava Krishna Sarma you mean this India is a paradise.

https://youtu.be/Injodpo3T1o

Is that how you treat your Dalit's life. Just look at that, they can't year shoes near a upper caste house. They can't eat near them, nothing of sort happened in Bangladesh.

 

[loanranger]

Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on the ground in former east-Pakistan. So were the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

The undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground was around 27,000. More troops were sent from West Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose).
The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.
This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?

According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.

“The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

“The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

“At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”.

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated


“It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”.

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,

“Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”

K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said


“Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”.

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts

“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

“Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,

“The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”

The higher number talked about was a deliberate attempt to defame and demoralize the Pakistani army, to demonstrate to the world extent of an Indian victory. It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000 as per your media propaganda become supermen, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by the Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of. I salute my brave Pak Army because this one corp of 45000 soldiers pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained India Terriost Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants.


Gurram Madhava Krishna Sarma you mean this India is a paradise.

https://youtu.be/Injodpo3T1o

Is that how you treat your Dalit's life. Just look at that, they can't year shoes near a upper caste house. They can't eat near them, nothing of sort happened in Bangladesh.

Thanks you for this. It is typical indian habit to inflate any Indian victory as well as any Pakistani defeat.

 

[messiach]

Just facts. It was a massive war of propoganda and deception at its finest & our bengali brothers fell to the deception. We made our mistakes mostly political and administrative in nature. Our bureacracy must be singled out for their imperial tyranical psychopathic superiority cult considring them to be the allete of mankind & rest of us as mice or even less. They are the real architects of 'bengladesh' and most of them deserve the hangmans noose around their arrogant necks.

Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on the ground in former east-Pakistan. So were the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

The undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground was around 27,000. More troops were sent from West Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose).
The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.
This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?

According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.

“The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

“The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

“At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”.

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated


“It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”.

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,

“Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”

K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said


“Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”.

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts

“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

“Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,

“The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”

The higher number talked about was a deliberate attempt to defame and demoralize the Pakistani army, to demonstrate to the world extent of an Indian victory. It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000 as per your media propaganda become supermen, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by the Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of. I salute my brave Pak Army because this one corp of 45000 soldiers pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained India Terriost Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants.


Gurram Madhava Krishna Sarma you mean this India is a paradise.

https://youtu.be/Injodpo3T1o

Is that how you treat your Dalit's life. Just look at that, they can't year shoes near a upper caste house. They can't eat near them, nothing of sort happened in Bangladesh.

 

[Readerdefence]

The Mig in Kargil was brought down by army air defense teams. The wreckage was often displayed at 6 September shows held in the Pindi Race Course/Polo Ground. I saw the wreckage and met one of the guys who shot it down on the 6 September show all those years ago.

No idea where it is now.

Hi viper27 thanks for your detailed reply

 

[MM_Haider]

Comparing the humiliation and surrender of 71 where we lost half the country with 26-2-19; great, just freakin awesome.

And really, we shouldn't ape their behavior.

it is not about copying .. it is about replying in the same coin! no need to be apologetic ..

 

[Vapnope]

How many people died?
They fed and kept 93000 others healthy, nobody is going to believe this story.

Indians believe that everything is Normal in Kashmir so i dont expect them to believe anything. They have their own little world, of course the reality is different from that.

 

[Psychic]

Our bureacracy must be singled out for their imperial tyranical psychopathic superiority cult considring them to be the allete of mankind & rest of us as mice or even less. They are the real architects of 'bengladesh' and most of them deserve the hangmans noose around their arrogant necks.

The imperial superiority cult was an amalgamation of the military, bureaucracy and politicians.

I don't understand why the majority on this forum worships the military and makes lame excuses to hide army's blunders of epic proportions.

Babus were not responsible for battlefield losses and the dishonorable surrender. Those who were have been absolved of all sins by boot polishers.

considring them to be the allete of mankind & rest of us as mice or even less

That is true for the military as well who to this day treats bloody civilians as insects and inferior beings.

and most of them deserve the hangmans noose around their arrogant necks

No noose for the likes of Niazi and Yahya who were responsible for the defence of the motherland?

Its time we acknowledge where the fault lies instead of whitewashing the crimes of those who we like.

 

[loanranger]

That is true for the military as well who to this day treats bloody civilians as insects and inferior beings.

Stop showing the Pak Army in a bad light. The common soldier and young officer has sacrificed too much for his country. The higher ups may have a slight problem but it is not widespread. The rich civilian has never been unbearanly troubled by the army. The poor civilian also sees the army as a source of comfort in times of disaster.

 

[messiach]

I agree. Blacksheeps are exceptions, they exsist everywhere.

Stop showing the Pak Army in a bad light. The common soldier and young officer has sacrificed too much for his country. The higher ups may have a slight problem but it is not widespread. The rich civilian has never been unbearanly troubled by the army. The poor civilian also sees the army as a source of comfort in times of disaster.

 

[Psychic]

Stop showing the Pak Army in a bad light.

Why?

It is necessary to point out mistakes so that they aren't repeated.

The common soldier and young officer has sacrificed too much for his country.

That's what they get paid for.

Every nation's soldiers make sacrifices for their countries. What is so special about ours?

Those who do are honored, decorated and respected - Isn't that enough or should we mow their lawns as well?

While we hear alot about the tales of valor, accounts of cowardice are brushed under the carpet.

the higher ups may have a slight problem but it is not widespread.

How do you know?

Were the blunders of 65, 71 and Kargil the results of just a "slight" problem with the higher ups? Did heads roll for battlefield losses which were a result of criminal incompetence?

When four men launch a gigantic operation without consulting the government and without adhering to military norms of war-gaming beforehand; its not a "slight" problem - the result was a military debacle and the country suffered an irreparable damage to its credibility. In any other country, heads would've rolled; but here, instead of a court martial, the country witnessed a martial law.

The rich civilian has never been unbearanly troubled by the army. The poor civilian also sees the army as a source of comfort in times of disaster.

So, there is no badmashi done by the army ever? Why was a cop beaten for handing out speed ticket? Was the offender punished? There are many other cases of ghunda gardi as well.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on the ground in former east-Pakistan. So were the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

The undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground was around 27,000. More troops were sent from West Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose).
The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.
This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?

According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.

“The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

“The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

“At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”.

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated


“It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”.

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,

“Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”

K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said


“Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”.

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts

“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

“Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,

“The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”

The higher number talked about was a deliberate attempt to defame and demoralize the Pakistani army, to demonstrate to the world extent of an Indian victory. It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000 as per your media propaganda become supermen, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by the Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of. I salute my brave Pak Army because this one corp of 45000 soldiers pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained India Terriost Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants.


Gurram Madhava Krishna Sarma you mean this India is a paradise.

https://youtu.be/Injodpo3T1o

Is that how you treat your Dalit's life. Just look at that, they can't year shoes near a upper caste house. They can't eat near them, nothing of sort happened in Bangladesh.

Bengali Muslims started from ZERO!!! Due to the Permanent Settlement, done during 1770s by the British Raj, made Hindus landlords over 99% of Bengal!!! Almost all Bengali Muslims were "slaves" under the Hindus!!! Not to mention the socio-economic condition...

Even the Indian folks got amazed at the progress made by the Bengali Muslims in the East Pak (Basant Chaterjee, Inside Bangladesh today: an eye-witness account)!!! East Bengal didn't have a single jute mill in 1947, but had 60 by 1971!!! Anyway, old habits die hard!! BD asked for a capitulation under India, and was granted one...

"India and BD are like husband and wife" - BD FM Abdul Momen

 

[Signalian]

Were the blunders of 65, 71 and Kargil the results of just a "slight" problem with the higher ups? Did heads roll for battlefield losses which were a result of criminal incompetence?

Though i dont fully agree with your choice of words - The lessons learnt in all wars helped changing training and teaching doctrines in Military institutions. Military officers themselves spoke against the top brass about follies conducted in all wars. In fact, the operations conducted now are now operationalized differently.

While you point out Military leaders, the civilian leadership should be questioned too.

When four men launch a gigantic operation without consulting the government and without adhering to military norms of war-gaming beforehand; its not a "slight" problem - the result was a military debacle and the country suffered an irreparable damage to its credibility. In any other country, heads would've rolled; but here, instead of a court martial, the country witnessed a martial law.

Such kind of war as well as military takeover is not bound to happen. Militarily, the operation was viable in many aspects, and as such will not lead to court martial.

So, there is no badmashi done by the army ever? Why was a cop beaten for handing out speed ticket? Was the offender punished? There are many other cases of ghunda gardi as well.

ACR and OEI get affected with red lines in the reports - career is ruined.

Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on the ground in former east-Pakistan. So were the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

For propaganda purposes, civil servants are included too.

 

[loanranger]

Why?

It is necessary to point out mistakes so that they aren't repeated.

For starters no one in the army is listening to you. DGISPR himself once hinted at disappointment at the army's conduct in 1971 related to operation searchlight. We can only hope they have learned from their mistakes. Which I am sure they will as no one wants an entire population against them and getting their men killed and loosing half the country.

That's what they get paid for.

Every nation's soldiers make sacrifices for their countries. What is so special about ours?

Those who do are honored, decorated and respected - Isn't that enough or should we mow their lawns as well?

While we hear alot about the tales of valor, accounts of cowardice are brushed under the carpet.

I am sorry but they don't get paid to voluntarily sacrifice their lives. It is priceless. You can never repay a shaheed or ghazi by money for their service. However, the few bad eggs that indulged in corruption and other stuff were a product of lack of accountability. If you see recently the army jailed a few on espionage and corruption. Tales of cowardice may exist but the tales of valor by far exceed them.
You should have seen our boys on Feb 26 and 27 both army and airforce.

When four men launch a gigantic operation without consulting the government and without adhering to military norms of war-gaming beforehand; its not a "slight" problem - the result was a military debacle and the country suffered an irreparable damage to its credibility. In any other country, heads would've rolled; but here, instead of a court martial, the country witnessed a martial law.

Look the Kargil Operation I personally believe was ill planned and a tragedy. And was not war gamed properly. Neither were the international pressure factors taken into account aswell as the fact our Airforce would not be able to support us. For this those Generals who sitting in AC rooms planned this op and disowned and sacrificed their men should hang. I like Musharraf he has done loads for Pakistan but he should have still hanged for this. The only advantage that came from this was that the Indians suffered horrendous casualties and did not dare to do any mishcheif for a decade to come.Anyways F international image. When it comes to nailing indians I am all for it.

So, there is no badmashi done by the army ever? Why was a cop beaten for handing out speed ticket? Was the offender punished? There are many other cases

Ofcourse there are bad eggs everywhere. This incident is probably because a colonel or major got too big for his ego. Even our politicians do this stuff. Its not the army only. Plus you don't see this everyday.

Those who do are honored, decorated and respected - Isn't that enough or should we mow their lawns as well?

What have people like Mm Alam , Rafiqui, Younis, Capt Karnal Sher Khan, Hav lalik jan ever asked from you. I would gladly mow their land.
You forget that even the generals were once young officers no different to the rest with no idea they would be generals one day. No idea whether they would even live to that age. They had no incentive to join the army except love for the country.
Conclusion: The army is human. It has it's problems. But we cannot survive without it.
"Jaisi bhi hai humari hai aur humara uskay baghair guzara nahi."

 

[Arsalan 345]

This swift retort moment will come soon again and this paf have to repel iaf attack.i am sure we are heading towards war.i believe that with courage and sacrifice,we can defeat anyone.coming months are crucial.obviously paf understands current situation.we will fight even on the roads for our country.

 

[Signalian]

“Pakistan’s 1st Armoured division pushed an offensive towards Khem Karan and by 10 September nearly 100 tanks lay destroyed in what is now known as the Battle of Asal Uttar.” It takes away the credit of the Indian Army as there is no mention of the Indian Army’s role in the famous battle.

After a day or two, elsewhere, near Sialkot, a Pakistani lone tank regiment (25th Cav) with its squadrons divided in three thinly separate forces halted the attack of Indian Army's 1st Armored division in its tracks.

Indian 1st Armored Division suffered loss of 180 tanks in total.