Operation 'Decisive Storm' | Saudi lead coalition operations in Yemen - Updates & Discussions.

[SQ8]

Highly unlikely for such a move to be successful. Zaidis are fierce fighters. They are very much like the Pathans of your tribal areas. Have always fought and always won. They fight slow and long term. An organized military can not match them.

Many have tried in past. Ottomans tried and were defeated. British tried to subjugate them and failed. Egyptian tried and failed. Saudis will fail too.

Yet today the terrorists in FATA of which Pathans form a large part are being beaten back slowly. And Unlike the Houthis they have an advantage of inhospitable terrain and yet they are being beaten back.

 

[Gasoline]

‫قصف المنطقة العسكرية في مآرب من قبل التحالف العربي‬‎ - YouTube

I can't embed some of YouTube vids ? I don't know what's the problem.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I noticed that posters are posting news without giving the sources. Most sources are Al Arabiya which is generally very unreliable specially in a crisis such as this.

Whenever I search the All Arabiya in other sources, I don't find them. It would be more useful to be more honest with posting news.

thanks for coming back to the topic instead of arguing which race and language is better than the other
re your question I doubt if you will find a universally acceptable news source.

just like you are questioning Al Arabia and potentially CNN or maybe BBC/ AL Jazira ... others will reject Press TV or RT News. this is such a complex conflict that a neutral source or country will be hard to find and those that will be truly neutral wont really care what happens. when i visit other sites, the people say that people of Middle east should kill each other for all they care

so fare this is what we know. the Saudi led airstrikes have been devastating but not decisive, yes they have crippled the air defences and they control the skies but rebels are still clinging on. ground offensive will be the decider
I pray for early resolution before any more bloodshed

Highly unlikely for such a move to be successful. Zaidis are fierce fighters. They are very much like the Pathans of your tribal areas. Have always fought and always won. They fight slow and long term. An organized military can not match them.

Many have tried in past. Ottomans tried and were defeated. British tried to subjugate them and failed. Egyptian tried and failed. Saudis will fail too.

problem is probably Zaidies and specially Pathans live in the insignificant areas that never interested the empires .. they were like the badlands not worth the effort so they were left alone.

 

[Asmar Hussain]

@Falcon29 please update us with latest situation

 

[Daneshmand]

Yet today the terrorists in FATA of which Pathans form a large part are being beaten back slowly. And Unlike the Houthis they have an advantage of inhospitable terrain and yet they are being beaten back.

Not really a good comparison on your part. The reason, they are being beaten in FATA or PATA (please note that not yet completely beaten) is because, you are fighting a common enemy there. An ideology that is as foreign to them as it is to Pakistan military. In fact Pathans had initially tried to form a united stand with military in 2000's but were rejected eg. in Dara Adam Khil or in Khyber areas. They were actually abandoned by military.

Try beating their identity and you will be surprised.

Zaidis here are fighting for their identity vs. a military that believes in Takfir. The mere fact that you are calling them "terrorists" only makes them more determined to carry on. Since they have no other avenue. They have been a political force in that land for the past 1000 years. Calling them "terrorists" today, will not make them irrelevant or evaporate their zeal to live. Because they know. That they either have to keep fighting or they will have to live under Isis/AQ supported by Saudis.

problem is probably Zaidies and specially Pathans live in the insignificant areas that never interested the empires .. they were like the badlands not worth the effort so they were left alone.

Not really. Historically, centuries back, Yemen was important because it was the only coffee exporter in the world.

Today it is important since it sits across Bab-al-Mandeb making it a strategic choke-point for traffic across Suez. That is if you do not wan to circumnavigate Africa, Yemen is important to you.

But most importantly it is its potential to destablize Saudi Arabia the world's largest oil exporter and the kingpin of American policy in the region that makes Yemen interesting to watch.

The Saudi provinces across Yemen are populated by Ismaili Shias. On Yemen side it is the Zaidis Shias. And almost all of Saudis oil is in areas populated by 12er Shias.

That makes it interesting.

It is a war between Najd and Yemen. Has always been. It is history continuing.

 

[Kompromat]

@Horus @Oscar

Today Decisive Storm spokesman said that there is no plan for big ground operation till the moment.
Leader of Pro-President Hadi loyalists in Aden in an interview with Al-Jazeera Arabic today said that most of the city is under their control.

Personally, I don't think there would be any Ground Operation nor should it be at the short term at least.
Let Yemenis defend their country & fight their battle, it will last more time but it is much more effective.

No boots on the ground = no victory.

 

[Gufi]

No boots on the ground = no victory.

The border towns of Saudi are on high alert with skirmishes near the border going on... it is some time before the rebels attack the border and Pakistan will have to oblige with boots on ground.

Arab leaders agree to form a united military force, starting with 40,000 troops
@Horus boots on the ground

 

[bozorgmehr]

We demand Saudi boots on the ground... yallah

 

[SQ8]

 

[Gufi]

This picture has changed in terms of Yemen... Saudi has come directly into the conflict leaving proxies to a side..... While Iran can not deploy its airforce or navy Saudi and the other GCC countries have done that... A clear change in plans... with boots on ground being trained by Pakistani instructors as we speak things will change...
Till now the air strikes have targeted air bases, military bases, and missile silos with heavy artillery now being targeted

 

[Bratva]

The border towns of Saudi are on high alert with skirmishes near the border going on... it is some time before the rebels attack the border and Pakistan will have to oblige with boots on ground.

Arab leaders agree to form a united military force, starting with 40,000 troops
@Horus boots on the ground

Interestingly the terrain of saudi-yemen border areas are mountainous like of northern areas or in FATA. The saudi took casualties in 2009 because of such difficult terrain. What I think, why Saudi is persistent in Pakistani boots on the ground is due to challenging terrain in which PA has extensive experience. Would 12 NLI be put on the ground or the unit who gained experience braving mountains of Bajaur, khyber,Orakzai or S.Wazristan would be put remain to be seen

@Mosamania

Saudi dilemma: How to spot potential terrorist amid tide of human misery
By Nic Robertson, CNN



Updated 1430 GMT (2230 HKT) February 3, 2015

Jizan, Saudi Arabia (CNN)Driving out of the sleepy Saudi seaside town of Jizan at dawn, I had no idea what to expect.

I'd been asking the Saudi Interior Ministry to take me there for several years. Now I was in the desert kingdom covering King Salman bin Abdulaziz's ascent to the throne, and that permission had finally come through.

In the past few weeks, Houthi rebels have taken control of Yemen's capital, pushing the country ever closer to "failed state" status and giving the al Qaeda franchise there -- al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, or AQAP -- a greater foothold.

The Saudi minister of interior, now second-in-line to the throne, has a personal stake in seeing AQAP eradicated. The terror group's top bomb-maker put a sophisticated bomb in his own brother's rectum, exploding it when the brother met the leading royal a few years ago. The brother died, the minister was only lightly injured.

The thin line against terrorism: How Saudis struggle amid Yemen chaos 6 photos
The mountains on the Saudi-Yemeni border are beautiful -- but difficult to patrol.
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The thin line against terrorism: How Saudis struggle amid Yemen chaos 6 photos
Watch towers are equipped with thermal imaging equipment, while cameras watch out over mile upon mile of razor wire.
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The thin line against terrorism: How Saudis struggle amid Yemen chaos 6 photos
The men crowded inside the mesh cage welded to a pickup truck told us they had come to Saudi Arabia for work. One of them was just 11 years old.
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The thin line against terrorism: How Saudis struggle amid Yemen chaos 6 photos
This man was detained trying to cross the mountainous border from Yemen into Saudi Arabia.
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The thin line against terrorism: How Saudis struggle amid Yemen chaos 6 photos
These two youths were detained with the narcotic shrub qat that most Yemenis chew every day,
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The thin line against terrorism: How Saudis struggle amid Yemen chaos 6 photos
Several tons of qat lie piled up outside a guard post -- the haul of the past week, or so we were told.




This is the same bomb-maker who made the underpants bomb that came close to bringing down an airliner over Detroit on Christmas Day 2009. Despite extensive drone campaigns targeting him, he is believed to still be alive and remains a significant global threat.

There is no doubt in anyone's mind here that al Qaeda in Yemen will use any chance it gets to export terror over the border to their northern neighbor, with the royal family being the targets of choice.

Col. Omar al Kahtani, our escort for the day, was in a voluble mood as we sped toward the looming mountains that mark the border. "Anything could happen," he told us. "Be ready with your camera." Gun battles are rare on this border, he said, but only three weeks earlier, on Saudi's northern frontier, ISIS fighters broke through the defenses, killing three Saudi soldiers, including their commander.

The gun battle, footage of which was posted on the Internet, was a salutary reminder that the desert kingdom, the West's biggest regional partner in fighting the terror groups, is surrounded by battle-hardened enemies.

This corner of the country is remarkably green. Relatively lush vegetation -- in Saudi terms, at least -- sprouts in profusion from the semi-arid fields.

As our four-wheel-drive truck swung through the rickety metal gate, marking the edge of the border exclusion zone, we got our first taste of what has mostly been a hidden war down here.

A sprawling Saudi village of large ornate villas came into view. Pretty, until we got close, when we realized the buildings were all shot up. Rockets had torn gaping holes in the walls and gardens were overgrown with spindly tentacles of creepers that slowly consumed the once-vibrant homes.

Our host explained this was a village overrun by Houthi rebels from Yemen six years ago. In a three-week battle, Saudi Apache gunships had nearly destroyed the hamlet in the battle to save it. The government moved the residents away, creating a buffer between them and their fractious neighbor.

As we drive on, he tells us Yemen's security is worsening and Saudi Arabia is spending almost $3 billion on beefing up border security. Our trucks are bumping and slipping their way up the newly cut rough rock tracks. At moments, it feels as if we are almost climbing vertically.

These mountains are as rugged and rough as they are beautiful. Villages cling precariously to their higher reaches. No fence reaches up this far, the tiny smattering of guards solidifies the impression that at these altitudes, border control works on an honor system.

No line on a map will stop these mountain men from rounding up their stray goats. Even from the roadside I can see tiny footpaths crisscrossing the steep terrain from Yemen to Saudi and back.



Massive drugs haul


In the foothills, control is much more effective. Watch towers are equipped with thermal imaging equipment, super zoom cameras watching over mile upon mile, and layer upon layer of razor wire. It needs to be like this.

What we saw was staggering. I had no idea so many people and such a massive amount of drugs are moving over the border every day.

At our first stop, we saw two men captured that day. We saw another one caught soon after. Then a whole vanload, about a dozen people crowded inside a mesh cage welded to a pickup truck. One of them was just 11 years old.

They all told us they had come to Saudi for work. The 11-year-old was earning about $100 a month on a supermarket till in Jizan. All told the same story: about poverty and increasing chaos in Yemen and the Houthis getting stronger. The risk of jail in Saudi, they said, was better than the certainty of poverty in Yemen.

Our government escort told us they'd all be sent to the nearest large police station where they would be fingerprinted and officials would check their records to make sure none had ties to terrorism.

The men -- and they were all men -- admitted that sneaking over the border is getting much harder amid the increase in guard posts and border fences.

Border guards told us in the past three months alone, they have picked up 42,000 people along the 800-kilometer (about 500 miles) border.

Of course we are unable to verify that figure, but if the volume of illegal migrants we saw in the morning was shocking, then the afternoon was mind-blowing.

We were taken to a room where three children were standing with bundles of qat, the narcotic shrub that most Yemenis chew every day, at their feet.

The youngest, a 10-year-old, told me drug barons pay him $50 for hauling 10-kilos (about 22 lbs) of the green leaves over the border. It's the second time he has been caught.

I was told that the boy, who had been given a banana and a bottle of water by the guards, would be taken back to the border and told to return home. All three looked small for their age. No one, particularly them, doubted they would be back.



Continual stream of infiltrators


Unemployment among younger people is running at 40% in Yemen, likely higher in their villages. Putting food on the table at the end of the day is as far ahead as they think.

Between them, they had been caught with about 30 kilos of the narcotic. Piled up outside the guard post were several tons more -- the haul of the past week, or so we were told. I'd seen similar piles outside many of the other posts we'd already visited.

According to statistics given to us at the Jizan headquarters of the border guards, qat is a multi-million-dollar business. In the last three months, they say, they have seized more than 500,000 tons along the border, with a street value close to $100 million.

They also showed us 50 kg of cannabis resin they had confiscated that day. Over the past three months, more than 6,000 kg of hashish -- with a street value in Saudi of about $36 million -- had been seized, we were told.

Guns and ammunition are also smuggled in: 2,562 weapons have been seized in the past three months, as well as 380,088 rounds of ammunition, the border guards said. And the list goes on.

And so did our day and the near-continual stream of infiltrators. The problem for the Saudis is that they cannot ignore this deluge. Any one of the thousands they stop could be a terrorist.

Said Kouachi, one of the Charlie Hebdo attackers in Paris, is believed to have slipped in to Yemen not far from Saudi's border, making his way there for terror training from Oman. The attack he and his brother carried out also shows the lengths that AQAP is willing to go to in order to export terror.

Hajj pilgrimages to Islam's two holiest sites, Mecca and Medina, draw millions of Muslims to the kingdom. Knowing who comes and who goes is vital.

As the sun began to set, we jumped in police gun trucks as another group of men were spotted near the razor wire border fence. Tearing over the bumpy ground, we raced to intercept them. Surprisingly, they didn't run. They know they'll be freed soon, and from what we saw none of the six were beaten or abused.

Within minutes, as we were driving away, the sun sinking over the horizon and our day done, we thought we passed another eight men being caught. We stopped as police emptied the men's pockets. Cheap cellphones, not much else. They were illegal workers on their way back to homes in Yemen after weeks of work in Saudi, their wages already sent over the border by local money exchangers.

It was already darkening as we pulled away, once again trying to set off back to Jizan. And yet again, we stopped as we saw a group of guards searching two small figures. More child qat smugglers, rope and sack bags on their backs bulging with the big wraps that protect the delicate green leaves. Each boy carrying bundles with the drug baron's name on them.

Later, when we finally did get back to Jizan, we ate dinner sitting on rugs next to the Red Sea: fish, meat, salads, bread and Saudi "champagne," non-alcoholic fizzy grape juice.

This is a land of plenty, Yemen is not. Stanching the human tide flowing over the border is only going to get more difficult, and finding the terrorist hiding in so much human misery even harder.

Victoria Eastwood and Brad Olson contributed to this report.

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

What is the estimated cost of operation decisive storm per day/month in dollars?

 

[syedali73]

Through meaningful negotiations, we must cajole the Iranians to pull out from Yemen in the greater good of Ummah. Iranian position is not, I repeat, not weak in Yemen. Yemen, given its area, terrain, and long history of persecution by KSA/Egypt-backed respective governments has all the elements to become the Afghanistan of the Gulf. Moreover, Yemeni Arabs are not any less resilient and single minded as are the Afghans. Even with the boots on the ground, the conflict could last for decades with heavy casualties to the occupation or the so-called peace forces. Conflicts such as this cant be resolved through the use of power, especially when we are talking about the Arab forces who, sorry to say, do not have an impeccable combat record. There is simply no way Pakistan will deploy its troops on the ground, especially to conduct operations inside the Yemeni territory, other than dispatching some able field commanders. Neither we have the number (significant number of troops are busy in clearing up FATA, and another significant number is busy on the Western borders) nor public support for this.

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

I admire the oppressed Zaydi's of Yemen. Brave fighters.

 

[Daneshmand]

What is the estimated cost of operation decisive storm per day/month in dollars?

I would say over a couple of billion dollars per week, right now, only in military resupply and extra-running costs. If you factor in the buying of political support whether for now or future and indirect costs then probably the figure is more than twice that. And if there is going to be a ground component to it, then it will be whole new ball game.

Let's see how long they can keep this weight over their heads.

The ancient war sage and the greatest of all Generals, Sun Tzu had said, "The supreme art of war is to defeat the enemy without actually fighting it".

Saudis are fighting a mirage with no end in sight. Iran is just exercising the supreme art of warfare.

There is absolutely no comparison.

Through meaningful negotiations, we must cajole the Iranians to pull out from Yemen in the greater good of Ummah. Iranian position is not, I repeat, not weak in Yemen. Yemen, given its area, terrain, and long history of persecution by KSA/Egypt-backed respective governments has all the elements to become the Afghanistan of the Gulf. Moreover, Yemeni Arabs are not any less resilient and single minded as are the Afghans. Even with the boots on the ground, the conflict could last for decades with heavy casualties to the occupation or the so-called peace forces. Conflicts such as this cant be resolved through the use of power, especially when we are talking about the Arab forces who, sorry to say, do not have an impeccable combat record. There is simply no way Pakistan will deploy its troops on the ground, especially to conduct operations inside the Yemeni territory, other than dispatching some able field commanders. Neither we have the number (significant number of troops are busy in clearing up FATA, and another significant number is busy on the Western borders) nor public support for this.

Pray, that this Ummah does also include Iranians and Shia?

I thought so.

When will Saudis pull out of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan and Balochistan?

Or the purpose of the concept of Ummah is just for protection and benefit of Saudi royal family?

I wonder what this "jewel and highest purpose" of Ummah does in five star Paris hotels and up-society London clubs. They must be doing something good that so many pray for them day and night and worry about their future health and prosperity on forums, day and day out.