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Open letter from Afghan Taliban to US government

PeaceGen

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https://www.voanews.com/a/afghan-ta...erican-people-calls-for-dialogue/4254075.html

Afghan Taliban Pen Open Letter to Americans, Call for Dialogue
Last Updated: February 15, 2018 12:24 PM
  • Ayaz Gul
FF2A4D0A-D0F4-4A85-BD30-F2B4C9C16D0A_w1023_r1_s.jpg

Taliban fighters eat lunch in Shindand district of Herat province, Afghanistan, May 27, 2016.

ISLAMABAD —
The Taliban, in an “open letter” to the American people has called for dialogue to end the prolonged Afghan war, claiming increased U.S. military airstrikes have not "retaken even a single inch of land" from the insurgency.

Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid released copies of the 10-page document Wednesday in several languages, detailing insurgent gains and so-called failures of the “illegitimate” U.S.-led invasion, now in its 17th year.

The insurgent group has written the letter with the hope the American people, independent groups and “the peace loving Congressmen” will read it “prudently” to evaluate the future of their military mission in Afghanistan.

When asked about the letter Friday, South Carolina Republican Congressman Joe Wilson, a member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, told VOA (Urdu Service) the Taliban needs to change.

"The best way to have influence with Congress is for the Taliban to change their conduct. Mass murder, as has occurred in the last several weeks, of innocent civilians in Afghanistan, is not the way to give any indication of being accurate in their ability to truly negotiate for the benefit of the people of Afghanistan. The best way for the Taliban, really, is to change course, " he said.

The U.S. undertook the “felonious act” to eliminate the “single unified” Taliban and al-Qaida, but it “merely paved the way for anarchy” and emergence of multiple groups in the country, the letter alleged. It apparently was referring to, among others, the rise of Islamic State in the country.

Loyalists of the Middle East-based terrorist groups have lately increased attacks in parts of the country, particularly in the eastern and northern provinces.

The insurgent letter also cited recent U.N. surveys to note record levels of opium-poppy production in Afghanistan, saying it is fueling insecurity, though U.S. officials estimate 65 percent of Taliban funding comes from the illegal narcotics trade.

The Taliban reiterated U.S. and Coalition countries have lost thousands of their citizens and spent billions of dollars to establish a legitimate Afghan government, but their efforts have instead led to a politically divided and financially corrupt ruling system in the country.

“If you want peaceful dialogue with the Afghans specifically, and with the world generally, then make your president and the war-mongering congressmen and Pentagon officials understand this reality and compel them to adopt a rational policy towards Afghanistan,” the letter said.

The Taliban has released the letter at time when the United States has stepped up airstrikes in support of anti-insurgent ground and air operations by Afghan forces under President Donald Trump’s new war strategy to break the military stalemate with the Taliban and push insurgents to the negotiating table.

During a visit this week to eastern Afghanistan, General John Nicholson, who commands the U.S. and NATO’s Resolute Support mission in the country, said the intensified offensive is yielding results.

DACFDB05-FBFE-4D8E-91FB-D6D99EE603F0_w650_r1_s.jpg

FILE - The commander of NATO and U.S. forces in Afghanistan, U.S. Army Gen. John W. Nicholson speaks during a change of command ceremony at Task Force Southwest atn Shorab military camp of Helmand province, Afghanistan, Monday, Jan. 15, 2018.
“The success of the Afghan operations around the country, supported by Resolute Support and U.S. forces, has caused the enemy high casualties everywhere. This has caused them to stop their attempts to seize provincial capitals, to stop trying to seize districts,” Nicholson said.

The American general asserted a recent wave of Taliban suicide bombings against Afghan civilians stemmed from insurgent battlefield setbacks and losses.

The Taliban’s letter, however, questioned those assertions.

“Only in past September — in accordance with Trump’s new strategy — American forces used all their new powers and carried out 751 airstrikes. You should ask your generals that despite using such force, have you retaken even a single inch of land from the Taliban, or have they become even more powerful.”

The insurgent group insisted the presence of American forces in Afghanistan and the “inexperienced policies of President Trump and his warmonger advisers” will mean more hostility for and beyond the region.

The Taliban has long wanted direct talks with Washington, saying they are the final authority to determine the fate of the war and dismissing Afghan rulers as "mere American puppets."

U.S. officials maintain any peace process involving insurgents has to be initiated under the leadership of the Kabul government and within the Afghan constitution, requiring the Taliban to renounce violence and ties with al-Qaida terrorists.

The Afghan government has not commented on the Taliban letter.

Afghan President Ashraf Ghani has been calling on insurgents to engage in a peace process to end the war. But in the aftermath of deadly bombings in Kabul late last month, Ghani vowed not to engage in talks with those who publicly took credit for plotting the violence.

Afghan ambassador to Washington, Hamdullah Mohib, has claimed the Taliban’s open letter is an admission of defeat and a “face saving” attempt to seek a “truce.”

The Afghan government has always had an “open arms approach” to peace talks and it will be happy to “reintegrate all those Taliban that repent their actions and seek forgiveness from the Afghan people for their atrocities,” wrote Mohib on his official Twitter account.

The attacks, including a suicide car bombing, targeted the Intercontinental hotel in the Afghan capital and the city’s old interior ministry building, killing around 140 people, mostly civilians. The hotel attack also left at least four Americans dead.

Taliban spokesman Mujahid claimed responsibility for both the attacks, saying they were aimed at Afghan and U.S. security personnel.

The violence has since fueled anger against the Taliban in Kabul and prompted Trump to close doors for peace talks with the insurgents.

my reply to the Taliban is simple : you have been unclear what your honest and real ambitions are.

if you are determined to take over other parts of the world, even moderate cities and towns in Afghanistan and Pakistan,
then we must fight you, and we must win.
we can not allow you to spread your kind of oppressive and too often megalomaniac Islam to other parts of the world.

if you strike again at western targets or moderate-Islamic targets using physical force, we must fight you.
our military forward-bases near your homelands are there as violence-detectors (violence from you to us), not to oppress you (even with roundups for biometrics scans and the occasional home searches).

if you say and (more important: ) continuously act like that you merely want to rule your own tribal areas,
we can start peace-talks again.

i'm sure that this is the opinion of the majority of senior decision makers in NATO.

i'd like to hear other people's opinions on this important topic as well.
 
.
https://www.voanews.com/a/afghan-ta...erican-people-calls-for-dialogue/4254075.html



my reply to the Taliban is simple : you have been unclear what your honest and real ambitions are.

if you are determined to take over other parts of the world, even moderate cities and towns in Afghanistan and Pakistan,
then we must fight you, and we must win.
we can not allow you to spread your kind of oppressive and too often megalomaniac Islam to other parts of the world.

if you strike again at western targets or moderate-Islamic targets using physical force, we must fight you.
our military forward-bases near your homelands are there as violence-detectors (violence from you to us), not to oppress you (even with roundups for biometrics scans and the occasional home searches).

if you say and (more important: ) continuously act like that you merely want to rule your own tribal areas,
we can start peace-talks again.

i'm sure that this is the opinion of the majority of senior decision makers in NATO.

i'd like to hear other people's opinions on this important topic as well.
NATO is a defeated force they have lost the war in Afghanistan in a most humiliating manner
 
. .
If you lot keep up your attitude of a bully then the conflict will never end.
https://www.voanews.com/a/afghan-ta...erican-people-calls-for-dialogue/4254075.html



my reply to the Taliban is simple : you have been unclear what your honest and real ambitions are.

if you are determined to take over other parts of the world, even moderate cities and towns in Afghanistan and Pakistan,
then we must fight you, and we must win.
we can not allow you to spread your kind of oppressive and too often megalomaniac Islam to other parts of the world.

if you strike again at western targets or moderate-Islamic targets using physical force, we must fight you.
our military forward-bases near your homelands are there as violence-detectors (violence from you to us), not to oppress you (even with roundups for biometrics scans and the occasional home searches).

if you say and (more important: ) continuously act like that you merely want to rule your own tribal areas,
we can start peace-talks again.

i'm sure that this is the opinion of the majority of senior decision makers in NATO.

i'd like to hear other people's opinions on this important topic as well.
 
.
NATO is a defeated force they have lost the war in Afghanistan in a most humiliating manner

Afghanistan now has a moderate-Islamic democratic leadership.
That's an improvement over rule by the likes of the Taliban, now ain't it?

Read somewhere that Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. Turning in a truth somehow.

Or Afghanistan becomes a problem for empires, and the empires leave those grounds when the problem is back under control.

If you lot keep up your attitude of a bully then the conflict will never end.

We're not the bullies :

https://www.military.com/daily-news...st-19-northeast-nigeria-jihadists-blamed.html
Suicide Blasts Kill at Least 19 in Northeast Nigeria


capture_dimage_dune_vido_fournie_le_15_janvier_2018_par_le_groupe_islamiste_boko_haram_montrant_son_leader_abubakar_shekau_faisant_une_dclaration.jpeg

Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau makes a declaration in this 15 January video capture. (Boko Haram/AFP/Archives)
Agence France Presse 17 Feb 2018 By Aminu Abubakar
Three suicide bombers killed 19 people at a fish market in northeast Nigeria, civilian militia leaders said on Saturday, in an attack blamed on Boko Haram jihadists.

Friday's deadly attacks came in the week that hundreds of Boko Haram suspects went on trial at civilian courts at a military base.


One fighter involved in the 2014 abduction of more than 200 schoolgirls from the Borno state town of Chibok was jailed for 15 years.

The suicide blasts happened at about 8:30 pm local time on Friday in Konduga, some 20 miles southeast of the Borno state capital, Maiduguri.

Babakura Kolo and Musa Ari, from the Civilian Joint Task Force (CJTF) assisting Nigeria's military against the Islamists, said the bombers were all men.

"We have 19 dead and about 70 others injured... Two of the bombers attacked the Tashan Kifi fish market. Then four minutes later, a third bomber struck nearby," said Kolo.

"The victims included 18 civilians and one soldier. The Tashan Kifi is an informal market which serves as an eatery, market and also hang-out for residents."

Ari said 22 of the 70 injured were in a critical condition, adding: "There is no question as to who did it: Boko Haram has targeted Konduga several times."

There was no immediate comment from the military or the police in Borno state, which has borne the brunt of the violence in Boko Haram's nearly nine-year insurgency.

At least 20,000 people have been killed and more than 2.6 million others made homeless since 2009. Nigeria's military and government maintains the group is a spent force.

But suicide attacks and raids persist, with civilians in hard-to-reach rural areas and outlying towns at risk.

On January 31, two female suicide bombers blew themselves up at Mandarari village, near Konduga.

- Trials and reward -

The blasts happened shortly after another bomber killed four and injured 44 at a displaced persons' camp in Dalori, 22 kilometres away on the same road to Maiduguri.

A fourth bomber also blew herself up outside the camp.

The Nigerian officer in charge of operations against Boko Haram, Major General Rogers Nicholas, on Wednesday said the Islamic State group affiliate was "in disarray".

Operations since the start of this year had flushed them out of their stronghold in the Sambisa Forest area of Borno state, which had previously been cleared in December 2016.

Nicholas called the jihadists "callous" for "forcefully using the most vulnerable in our society... as IED (improvised explosive device) couriers."

On Tuesday, the army claimed Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau was "running for his dear life" because of military action against his hideout.

Army spokesman Brigadier General Sani Usman said Shekau was "desperately trying to escape... disguised as a woman" wearing a hijab to avoid detection.

The military said it would give a reward of three million naira ($8,310, 6,697 euros) for "credible information" leading to his arrest.

In 2012, the army had said it would give a 50 million naira reward.

The United States, which considers Shekau an international terrorist, has said it would offer up to $7 million for information on his whereabouts.


Boko Haram Turning Girls into Suicide Bombers
Young girls fighting to strap on a bomb, not because they were brainwashed by their captors' violent indoctrination methods but because the relentless hunger and sexual abuse -- coupled with the constant shelling -- became too much to bear.

_______

This article was written by Aminu Abubakar from Agence France Presse and was legally licensed through the NewsCred publisher network. Please direct all licensing questions to legal@newscred.com.

As i said : too often do Muslim men try to force their religion and way of life upon others.
The evidence is all over Iraq, Syria, Africa, Afghanistan *and* Pakistan, just to name a few countries where fundamentalism (OK by itself) is coupled with terror strategies to try to gain absolute power over lands and peoples.

There's nothing wrong with peaceful evangalism by any religion.
It's the violence and oppression caused by groups like the Taliban and Boko Haram, that we have such serious issues with that we'll use our militaries (in the way we deem fit, not the way fundamentalist Muslims seem fit).

by the way, i wrote an RSS news reader app for my site, and with the amount of mass media news headlines reaching me in real-time these days (i have it open a lot for testing and while relaxing, somehow i find the world news still more interesting than the tech+biz+sports news), i'm bound to miss less of the relevant news than i did before.
 
.
Afghanistan now has a moderate-Islamic democratic leadership.
That's an improvement over rule by the likes of the Taliban, now ain't it?



Or Afghanistan becomes a problem for empires, and the empires leave those grounds when the problem is back under control.



We're not the bullies :

https://www.military.com/daily-news...st-19-northeast-nigeria-jihadists-blamed.html


As i said : too often do Muslim men try to force their religion and way of life upon others.
The evidence is all over Iraq, Syria, Africa, Afghanistan *and* Pakistan, just to name a few countries where fundamentalism (OK by itself) is coupled with terror strategies to try to gain absolute power over lands and peoples.

There's nothing wrong with peaceful evangalism by any religion.
It's the violence and oppression caused by groups like the Taliban and Boko Haram, that we have such serious issues with that we'll use our militaries (in the way we deem fit, not the way fundamentalist Muslims seem fit).

by the way, i wrote an RSS news reader app for my site, and with the amount of mass media news headlines reaching me in real-time these days (i have it open a lot for testing and while relaxing, somehow i find the world news still more interesting than the tech+biz+sports news), i'm bound to miss less of the relevant news than i did before.

It is easy to fight with people who aspire to leave and have a life of their own...But how will you fight with people who just want to die for their own belief?

And in particular to Afganistan, NATO has their own mistake is dealing with them...After OBL, Nato should have left Afganistan...Why US and West feel burdened to waste tax payers money in Afganistan..Trust me, Afganistan is a place when war will never end...if also, West comes out of that place, their internal rival group may clash with each other based on their own rivallary...
 
.
Yep you are bullies. Further, bullies that are in denial. This whole conflict is futile.

At the very end, with everything said and done Afghanistan will return to status quo i.e Taliban govt. And this time they might a lot more stronger and a bit more liberal i.e accepting some technology and liberties of Western origin.
Afghanistan now has a moderate-Islamic democratic leadership.
That's an improvement over rule by the likes of the Taliban, now ain't it?



Or Afghanistan becomes a problem for empires, and the empires leave those grounds when the problem is back under control.



We're not the bullies :

https://www.military.com/daily-news...st-19-northeast-nigeria-jihadists-blamed.html


As i said : too often do Muslim men try to force their religion and way of life upon others.
The evidence is all over Iraq, Syria, Africa, Afghanistan *and* Pakistan, just to name a few countries where fundamentalism (OK by itself) is coupled with terror strategies to try to gain absolute power over lands and peoples.

There's nothing wrong with peaceful evangalism by any religion.
It's the violence and oppression caused by groups like the Taliban and Boko Haram, that we have such serious issues with that we'll use our militaries (in the way we deem fit, not the way fundamentalist Muslims seem fit).

by the way, i wrote an RSS news reader app for my site, and with the amount of mass media news headlines reaching me in real-time these days (i have it open a lot for testing and while relaxing, somehow i find the world news still more interesting than the tech+biz+sports news), i'm bound to miss less of the relevant news than i did before.
 
. .
oo often do Muslim men try to force their religion and way of life upon others.
Oh I am sorry did I miss the train of bullshit already ?
Because, to me it seems you're on it. So did coalition forces find WMDS in Iraq yet ?
Or did the bombing of Libya decreased migrants influx to Europe? Now that they have more jobs in Libya after coalition bombing ?
Or or did CIA installed raza phleavi in Iran prevented the hardline revolution there?

These Christian invading forces had it coming. If you want to paint in religion than dear boy, naming Christians as Nazis will not wash away the genocide of Jews ininneurope in hands of Christians.
 
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First, let's take a closer look at the Iraq case.
I have 3 links for you all that can update you with what we in the West leave behind in the history books about those wars in and around Iraq since the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq#Estimates_of_deaths_due_to_sanctions
Effects on the Iraqi people during sanctions[edit]
High rates of malnutrition, lack of medical supplies, and diseases from lack of clean water were reported during sanctions.[26] In 2001, the chairman of the Iraqi Medical Association's scientific committee sent a plea to the BMJ to help it raise awareness of the disastrous effects the sanctions were having on the Iraqi healthcare system.[27]

The modern Iraqi economy had been highly dependent on oil exports; in 1989, the oil sector comprised 61% of the GNP. A drawback of this dependence was the narrowing of the economic base, with the agricultural sector rapidly declining in the 1970s. Some claim that, as a result, the post-1990 sanctions had a particularly devastating effect on Iraq’s economy and food security levels of the population.[28]

Shortly after the sanctions were imposed, the Iraqi government developed a system of free food rations consisting of 1000 calories per person/day or 40% of the daily requirements, on which an estimated 60% of the population relied for a vital part of their sustenance. With the introduction of the Oil-for-Food Programme in 1997, this situation gradually improved. In May 2000 a United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) survey noted that almost half the children under 5 years suffered from diarrhoea, in a country where the population is marked by its youth, with 45% being under 14 years of age in 2000. Power shortages, lack of spare parts and insufficient technical know-how lead to the breakdown of many modern facilities.[28] The per capita income in Iraq dropped from $3510 in 1989 to $450 in 1996, heavily influenced by the rapid devaluation of the Iraqi dinar.[28]

Iraq had been one of the few countries in the Middle East that invested in women’s education. But this situation changed from the late eighties on with increasing militarisation and a declining economic situation. Consequently, the economic hardships and war casualties in the last decades have increased the number of women-headed households and working women.[28]

Thomas Nagy argued in September 2001 issue of The Progressive magazine that United States' government intelligence and actions in the previous ten years demonstrates that the United States government had acted to intentionally destroy Iraq's water supply.[29]Michael Rubin criticized Nagy for "selective" use of sources and argued that "the documentary evidence eviscerates Nagy's conclusions":

The oil-for-food program has already spent more than $1 billion in water and sanitation projects in Iraq. Baghdad estimates that providing adequate sanitation and water resources would cost an additional $328 million. However, such an allocation is more than possible given the billions of dollars in oil revenue Baghdad receives each year under sanctions, and the additional $1 billion dollars per year it receives from transport of smuggled oil on the Syrian pipeline alone. Indeed, if Saddam Hussein's government has managed to spend more than $2 billion for new presidential palaces since the end of the Persian Gulf War, and offer to donate nearly $1 billion to support the Palestinian intifada, there is no reason to blame sanctions for any degradation in water and sanitation systems.[10]

Denis Halliday was appointed United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator in Baghdad, Iraq as of 1 September 1997, at the Assistant Secretary-General level. In October 1998 he resigned after a 34-year career with the UN in order to have the freedom to criticise the sanctions regime, saying "I don't want to administer a programme that satisfies the definition of genocide"[30] However, Sophie Boukhari, a UNESCO Courier journalist, reports that "some legal experts are skeptical about or even against using such terminology" and quotes Mario Bettati for the view that "People who talk like that don’t know anything about law. The embargo has certainly affected the Iraqi people badly, but that’s not at all a crime against humanity or genocide."[31]

Halliday's successor, Hans von Sponeck, subsequently also resigned in protest, calling the effects of the sanctions a "true human tragedy".[32] Jutta Burghardt, head of the World Food Program in Iraq, followed them.[33]

Estimates of deaths due to sanctions[edit]
Estimates of excess deaths during the sanctions vary widely, use different methodologies and cover different time-frames.[8][34][35] The figure of 500,000 child deaths was for a long period widely cited, but recent research has shown that that figure was the result of survey data manipulated by the Saddam Hussein regime.[11][36] A 1995 Lancet estimate put the number of child deaths at 567,000,[37] but when one of the authors of the study followed up on it a year later, "many of the deaths were not confirmed in the reinterviews. Moreover, it emerged that some miscarriages and stillbirths had been wrongly classified as child deaths in 1995."[11][38] A 1999 UNICEF report found that 500,000 children died as a result of sanctions,[39] but comprehensive surveys after 2003 failed to find such child mortality rates.[11] A 2017 study in the British Medical Journal described "the rigging of the 1999 Unicef survey" as "an especially masterful fraud".[11] The three comprehensive surveys conducted since 2003 all found that the child mortality rate in the period 1995-2000 was approximately 40 per 1000, which means that there was no major rise in child mortality in Iraq after sanctions were implemented.[11]

Oil for Food[edit]
Main article: Oil-for-Food Programme
As the sanctions faced mounting condemnation for its humanitarian impacts,[40] several UN resolutions were introduced that allowed Iraq to trade its oil for goods such as food and medicines. The earliest of these, Resolution 706 of 15 August 1991, allowed the sale of Iraqi oil in exchange for food. Resolution 712 of 19 September 1991 confirmed that Iraq could sell up to $1.6 billion USD in oil to fund an Oil For Food program.

In 1996, Iraq was allowed under the UN Oil-for-Food Programme (under Security Council Resolution 986) to export $5.2 billion USD of oil every 6 months with which to purchase items needed to sustain the civilian population. After an initial refusal, Iraq signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in May 1996 for implementation of that resolution. The Oil-for-Food Programme started in October 1997, and the first shipments of food arrived in March 1998. Twenty-five percent of the proceeds were redirected to a Persian Gulf War reparations account, and three percent into United Nations programs related to Iraq.

While the programme is credited with improving the conditions of the population, it was not free from controversy. Denis Halliday, who oversaw the Programme, believed it was inadequate to compensate for the adverse humanitarian impacts of the sanctions. The U.S. State Department criticized the Iraqi government for inadequately spending the money, exporting food, and refusing to accept the program for several years after it was offered in 1991.[41] In 2004/5 the Programme became the subject of major media attention over corruption, as allegations surfaced such as that Iraq had systematically sold allocations of oil at below-market prices in return for some of the proceeds from the resale outside the scope of the Programme; investigations implicated individuals and companies from dozens of countries. See Oil For Food Programme - Investigations.

Lifting of sanctions[edit]
Following the 2003 Iraq War, the sanctions regime was largely ended on May 22, 2003 (with certain exceptions related to arms and to oil revenue) by paragraph 10 of UN Security Council Resolution 1483.[42]

Sanctions which gave the US and UK control over Iraq's oil revenue were not removed until December 2010.[2] Chapter VII sanctions which required 5% of Iraq's oil and natural gas revenue to be paid to Kuwait as reparations for Saddam Hussain's invasion have since been lifted, leaving approximately 11 billion USD unpaid to the government of Kuwait. http://www.crethiplethi.com/khudhei...slamic-countries/iraq-islamic-countries/2013/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Between_inspections:_1998–2003
Despite the intelligence lapse, Bush stood by his decision to invade Iraq stating:

But what wasn't wrong was Saddam Hussein had invaded a country, he had used weapons of mass destruction, he had the capability of making weapons of mass destruction, he was firing at our pilots. He was a state sponsor of terror. Removing Saddam Hussein was the right thing for world peace and the security of our country.

There were other reasons besides WMD suspicions to invade Iraq.
And they're not well listed on the web, aside from articles like these:
https://www.heritage.org/middle-east/report/the-road-economic-prosperity-post-saddam-iraq
As the Bush Administration and Iraqi opposition groups plan the future of a post-Saddam Hussein Iraq without its menacing arsenal of weapons of mass destruction (WMD), economic issues loom large. Iraq's economy has been grossly mismanaged for 40 years, and its people desperately need an alternative strategy to supplant the failed policies of its dictator. Sound economics are needed to help them rebuild their lives and their country after two decades of wars and four decades of repression under the current regime.

1 According to some experts, Iraqi reserves can be as large as 220 billion barrels--equal to those of Saudi Arabia.2Gross domestic product (GDP) for 2001, at the market exchange rate, however, is estimated to be only about one-third the level in 1989.3 Iraq also is hobbled by its $140 billion foreign debt.4

5 Presumably, a post-war U.S. military presence in Iraq and Iraq's future security forces will ensure that the new Iraqi government does not continue to develop WMD and support terrorism.

The future of Iraq depends not only on the ouster of the country's repressive regime, but also on the ability of the new Iraqi leaders to reverse the damage through policies that will spur real economic growth. The sooner the threat from Saddam's WMD programs ends and the Iraqi economy recovers, the sooner the United States and the other security forces will be able to depart.

And the Americans *are* now leaving Iraq, albeit gradually (there is no other way to do that in the current regional political climate)
They're also still on standby to *help* the new Iraqi government deal with insurgents and terrorists operating on Iraqi lands.

I will try to research and explain the Libya story some other time.

The first thing to die in actual war is the truth, some say.
So everyone lies during a war and during the buildup to a war. The real reasons are often hidden because the public does not believe them dire enough to start a war over, while in reality the threats are real.
For instance the threat of Saddam having too much control over the global oil market. He would not have stopped at Kuwait, he would have waltzed right over Saudi Arabia too. Saddam thought of growth in terms of military power, not in terms of peaceful economic growth. I believe that's why he had to get removed in the end.
 
.
First, let's take a closer look at the Iraq case.
I have 3 links for you all that can update you with what we in the West leave behind in the history books about those wars in and around Iraq since the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq#Estimates_of_deaths_due_to_sanctions


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Between_inspections:_1998–2003


There were other reasons besides WMD suspicions to invade Iraq.
And they're not well listed on the web, aside from articles like these:
https://www.heritage.org/middle-east/report/the-road-economic-prosperity-post-saddam-iraq


And the Americans *are* now leaving Iraq, albeit gradually (there is no other way to do that in the current regional political climate)
They're also still on standby to *help* the new Iraqi government deal with insurgents and terrorists operating on Iraqi lands.

I will try to research and explain the Libya story some other time.

The first thing to die in actual war is the truth, some say.
So everyone lies during a war and during the buildup to a war. The real reasons are often hidden because the public does not believe them dire enough to start a war over, while in reality the threats are real.
For instance the threat of Saddam having too much control over the global oil market. He would not have stopped at Kuwait, he would have waltzed right over Saudi Arabia too. Saddam thought of growth in terms of military power, not in terms of peaceful economic growth. I believe that's why he had to get removed in the end.
Total. Bulsshit. Bush and Christians used the rhetoric of WMDs in Iraq. And clearly head of IAEA then el batedi clearly warned that Iraq didn't posses WMD nor had capability to build one. In that case if attack was on north Korea or irn would have justified. They have exhibited the capacity to manufacture it. WMD was just a false pretext by Christians to impose war on Islamic world, so you don't tell me that bullshit that Muslims impose anything. You Christians imposed your will on poor jews.
And learn to reply to message

believe that's why he had to get removed in the end.
That's was during 92 not in 2003. So the invasion and an entire destruction of a generation on mere believe ?? Do you realise nhow ridiculous u sound right now using 16 century notion, a weak justification for invasion. And then you have guts to point finger at Muslims

They're also still on standby to *help* the new Iraqi government deal with insurgents and terrorists operating on Iraqi lands.
Right, so much that right nunder their nose ISIS was born, using american made highly sophisticated weapons. Thanks to PMC of US
 
.
It is easy to fight with people who aspire to leave and have a life of their own...But how will you fight with people who just want to die for their own belief?

And in particular to Afganistan, NATO has their own mistake is dealing with them...After OBL, Nato should have left Afganistan...Why US and West feel burdened to waste tax payers money in Afganistan..Trust me, Afganistan is a place when war will never end...if also, West comes out of that place, their internal rival group may clash with each other based on their own rivallary...

Exactly. With all that trillion plus dollars dumped in Afghanistan, govt could've done something to fix the Healthcare system or free college with no conditions.
 
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I agree with you. USA has the leave Afghanistan sooner or later. And guess who is coming back into power? It is the Afghan Taliban. lol. :lol:
Exactly. The USA has no control over that country even after 17 years of occupation.
 
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The US has exactly enough control over Afghanistan's and Pakistan's taliban to keep those off *our* backs.

And once again, we're not the ones who started tensions between the West and the Muslim world.
YOU PEOPLE TRIED TO EXTORT US VIA OIL PRICES OVER THE FATE OF ISRAEL IN THE 1970s OPEC WAR.

And you Muslims always claim the victim status while in reality you're the aggressors.
But hey, my opinions are clearly not wanted here, and i get no backup at all from muslims, so what if i just stop wasting my time trying to explain the white man's views to you people? I think i'll do that. I can do more fun and worthwhile things with my time.
Meanwhile you can enjoy the misery you bring upon yourselves and your peoples, Muslims.

You think we grow tired of war, and we do. We retreat from foreign lands when possible. You Muslims wouldn't. You'd oppress the locals.
But then you find us back in your lands, teaching you another lesson for some new aggression you threw at us (and then deny ever having thrown it). This way the war between the West and Muslim extremists can go on literally for centuries. But i think within 20 years you won't be able to launch attacks on Western homelands at all anymore, nor be able to deny us the last bits of oil we need to keep our economies and therefore our lives going, before we switch to electric+nuclear fusion power. And *then*, Muslims, you're left fighting eachother to the death via torture over whose flavor of Islam should rule over all Muslims.

I don't care anymore folks. I deplore the innocent lives lost, but i'm tired of being painted as the bad guy, for trying to help bring peace.

[EDIT : 10 minutes later]

well the reason i started doing this type of work in the first place is for all the peaceful people who vastly outnumber warmongerer-loudmouths like you find here on the forum.

so now i have to decide if i want to shut you all up like i did with your kind on other forums before, using psychological warfare followed by healing-psychology. it's the only thing that can cure a forum like this of hatred that leads to loss of innocent lives.

and don't think i'm not able to do so.
the only thing holding me back is the fact i'll once again be responsible for everybody's mental well being during the transition away from extreme nationalism, to peaceful and wiser nationalism. everybody who thinks like the people who keep blaming the Westerners even when a Westerner like me is trying to merely list a list of demands for actual peace. You people disrupt peace processes on purpose but say you want peace. Peace to prepare your next attacks on us.

so yeah, i do know how to handle you guys.

for instance you'll try to put the burden of evidence on me, and then claim that the evidence has been falsified, or ask for so much evidence i spend all day sifting through war records, all of which are bullshit distractions and desperate attempts to win the arguments.

i'll blast you with the bits of truth that are sharpened by an Occam's razor instead.
and it will not be pleasant for the egos of anyone even remotely extremist-nationalist in Asia or the Middle East.

i give you your last chance to back down from your reputation attacks against me.
i am merely the messenger delivering messages with demands for peacetalks (which havent even been able to begin in earnest).
if you don't like those messages, shut up or present your own viewpoints in a respectable manner without questioning my honesty.
if you want to question my honesty or factual accuracy or tell your side of the story, from now, on you must provide sources that back up your claims, or you're going to get ridiculed like the violent little child that you are, needs to be.

and you can also forget about real-time chats via the forum with me.
i'll reply when *i* have time and energy to deal with you "people", @salarsikander @Asim B., and all *your* natural allies.
 
.
The US has exactly enough control over Afghanistan's and Pakistan's taliban to keep those off *our* backs.

And once again, we're not the ones who started tensions between the West and the Muslim world.
YOU PEOPLE TRIED TO EXTORT US VIA OIL PRICES OVER THE FATE OF ISRAEL IN THE 1970s OPEC WAR.

And you Muslims always claim the victim status while in reality you're the aggressors.
But hey, my opinions are clearly not wanted here, and i get no backup at all from muslims, so what if i just stop wasting my time trying to explain the white man's views to you people? I think i'll do that. I can do more fun and worthwhile things with my time.
Meanwhile you can enjoy the misery you bring upon yourselves and your peoples, Muslims.

You think we grow tired of war, and we do. We retreat from foreign lands when possible. You Muslims wouldn't. You'd oppress the locals.
But then you find us back in your lands, teaching you another lesson for some new aggression you threw at us (and then deny ever having thrown it). This way the war between the West and Muslim extremists can go on literally for centuries. But i think within 20 years you won't be able to launch attacks on Western homelands at all anymore, nor be able to deny us the last bits of oil we need to keep our economies and therefore our lives going, before we switch to electric+nuclear fusion power. And *then*, Muslims, you're left fighting eachother to the death via torture over whose flavor of Islam should rule over all Muslims.

I don't care anymore folks. I deplore the innocent lives lost, but i'm tired of being painted as the bad guy, for trying to help bring peace.

[EDIT : 10 minutes later]

well the reason i started doing this type of work in the first place is for all the peaceful people who vastly outnumber warmongerer-loudmouths like you find here on the forum.

so now i have to decide if i want to shut you all up like i did with your kind on other forums before, using psychological warfare followed by healing-psychology. it's the only thing that can cure a forum like this of hatred that leads to loss of innocent lives.

and don't think i'm not able to do so.
the only thing holding me back is the fact i'll once again be responsible for everybody's mental well being during the transition away from extreme nationalism, to peaceful and wiser nationalism. everybody who thinks like the people who keep blaming the Westerners even when a Westerner like me is trying to merely list a list of demands for actual peace. You people disrupt peace processes on purpose but say you want peace. Peace to prepare your next attacks on us.

so yeah, i do know how to handle you guys.

for instance you'll try to put the burden of evidence on me, and then claim that the evidence has been falsified, or ask for so much evidence i spend all day sifting through war records, all of which are bullshit distractions and desperate attempts to win the arguments.

i'll blast you with the bits of truth that are sharpened by an Occam's razor instead.
and it will not be pleasant for the egos of anyone even remotely extremist-nationalist in Asia or the Middle East.

i give you your last chance to back down from your reputation attacks against me.
i am merely the messenger delivering messages with demands for peacetalks (which havent even been able to begin in earnest).
if you don't like those messages, shut up or present your own viewpoints in a respectable manner without questioning my honesty.
if you want to question my honesty or factual accuracy or tell your side of the story, from now, on you must provide sources that back up your claims, or you're going to get ridiculed like the violent little child that you are, needs to be.

and you can also forget about real-time chats via the forum with me.
i'll reply when *i* have time and energy to deal with you "people", @salarsikander @Asim B., and all *your* natural allies.
Total bullshit. Didn't even bother tomread that.

Fact is christian like your kind first slaughtered Jews like pigs and them forced them into Palestine. Then you Christians name invaded Muslims lands for oil. Don't get me started on chrtistains colonised the countries, killed indigenous population

Attacks on western homelands is reactions of Christians attack of Iraq, before that there was no isis, when chrtistans started to support afghan mujhaideen against soviet they forgot about Islam, bit when they came again to invade, invaders Christians were brought to knees.

You as christian hold no moral Right to teach to blame your bloody finger on us.myou should not forget what you did with Jews during ww2.

Secondly, nor you have any going right to intervene in pir lands, if you thingnyou, do then don't bitch and whine when faced worth music. Bloddy Christian terrorist are bring quite a peace when they ram people down or shoot innocent kids in school. M

YOU PEOPLE TRIED TO EXTORT US VIA OIL PRICES OVER THE FATE OF ISRAEL IN THE 1970s OPEC WAR.
You bloody losers imposed Jews on us after ww2. And yes we have right to sell oil to anyone. You have no going right to whine. Grow up. And face the reality kid. Yourchristiansi colonised Libya and enslaved mthem during Omar mukjtar time.
 
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