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fatman17

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India Battles Russia Over Quality Control


August 21, 2012: India has made public yet another complaint about the Su-30 fighters it buys from Russia. This time it's an unspecified "design flaw" in the electronic flight control system for the aircraft. This bit of information was made public because India has found that more discreet communications about these matters results in little or no action from the Russians. For example, India has been pressuring Russia for several years to do something about component failures in the Russian designed AL-31 engines that power the Indian Su-30MKI jet fighters. There have been several AL-31 failures because of this in both Indian and Russian Su-30s.

There are currently two Russian engines being built for recent fighter aircraft designs. The $3.5 million AL-31 (for the Su-27/30 and the Chinese J-11 and J-10) and the $2.5 million RD-33/93 for the MiG-29 and the Chinese JF-17 (a F-16 type aircraft developed in cooperation with Pakistan). India already assembles the AL-31 engine for the Su-30 and simpler engines for the older MiG-21 and MiG-27. The assembly process is exacting and India has created thousands of technicians and engineers with valuable experience working on these engines.

So far, India has not been able to develop the technology to manufacture core components (that deal with very high pressures and temperatures) and buys these components from Russia. It is some of these components that are failing and India is telling the Russians that the problem must be fixed, soon, or Russia will lose more export sales.

India also does maintenance on all the engines it builds but really wants to manufacture and assemble the most modern engines completely within India. Russia has been reluctant to export the high-end technology needed to manufacture key jet engine components. Meanwhile, Indian personnel maintaining the AL-31 engines have made it clear that there is a growing component quality problem. It's gotten so bad that the Indian prime minister raised the issue during a visit to Russia. A related issue was the exorbitant prices Russia is demanding for upgrades to the Su-30. Indian engineers have enough experience with aircraft, and the Su-30, to know they are being gouged by the Russians. Moreover, as part of the sales contract, India is not allowed to get upgrades elsewhere without permission from the Russian manufacturer.

India buys bare bones fighters from Russia and equips these Su-30MKIs with Israeli sensors and communications gear. India has about two hundred Su-30MKIs in service and is building about one a month under license. India bought fifty in the late 1990s, and additional batches of 40 or so since. India wants to have nearly 300 within three years, partly because of the increasing threat of invasion by China. The first 18 Su-30s India received from Russia have been retired after a decade of service. In many respects, the Indian made Su-30s, the Su-30MKI, is the most capable version available, due to its Israeli and European electronics and the well trained Indian pilots.

The 38 ton SU-30MKI is most similar to the two seat American F-15E fighter-bomber. Even though equipped with Western electronics, the aircraft cost less than $40 million each, about half what an equivalent F-15 costs. The Su-30MKI can carry more than eight tons of bombs and hit targets over 1,500 kilometers away.

SP
 
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and btw this was posted and discussed several weeks ago, who brought this up again?
work on the FBW is ongoing, its not any everlasting problem FYI.

So far, India has not been able to develop the technology to manufacture core components (that deal with very high pressures and temperatures) and buys these components from Russia

Article seems to be dealing with info prior to 2010. post-2010 all of the MKI is being built at Nasik. That
includes the N011M BARS radar, AL-31FP engine and 100% raw materials. Plz post source of this article.
 
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What's the big deal here?
The only design flaw here is that the FBW on-off switch is located in the back of the pilot's seat so it i difficult for him to look at it while flying.Even EFT's have switch in this position

IAF's want's the switch to be relocated at the front like the F-18 SG,Rafale.

Browne insisted that the airworthiness of the frontline Su-30 aircraft cannot be questioned. "I myself came here and flew the aircraft within days of the crash. There is nothing wrong with it," he said.

"In the FBW, because it is electronically used, there are areas where it can give problems. The Su-30 is not the only case but such problems have occurred with aircraft using fly-by-wire controls," he added.

It has happened with the F-22s US aircraft, which is a very modern stealth aircraft. The US lost one because of the problem of power interruption in the FBW control, Browne added. "We have taken all necessary precautions to prevent such a crash," he said.

On the IAF's fleet plan, Browne said, "We have not yet planned for changeover of the whole fleet. At present, we have 34 squadrons and we will maintain this right through the 12th five-year plan period, which ends in 2017. So if one squadron, for example of a MiG-21, is being phased out, another one will come up and that will be replaced by Su-30 squadron. In the 13th plan, we will start going up to 42 squadrons by the end of the plan in 2022.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-08-05/pune/33048388_1_su-30-sukhois-fbw
 
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On one hand they are complaining about its flaws and on the other they boast about it being the best AC in the world. :cheesy:
 
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On one hand they are complaining about its flaws and on the other they boast about it being the best AC in the world. :cheesy:
Not every system in this world is perfect....everything has its flaws. We arent God to build a perfect system. but it is better than many.
 
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India Battles Russia Over Quality Control


August 21, 2012: India has made public yet another complaint about the Su-30 fighters it buys from Russia. This time it's an unspecified "design flaw" in the electronic flight control system for the aircraft. This bit of information was made public because India has found that more discreet communications about these matters results in little or no action from the Russians. For example, India has been pressuring Russia for several years to do something about component failures in the Russian designed AL-31 engines that power the Indian Su-30MKI jet fighters. There have been several AL-31 failures because of this in both Indian and Russian Su-30s.


SP

Brother next time find some better source so that you can share with us.

Warplanes: India Battles Russia Over Quality Control
 
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You are only 20 day's,7 hours,20 Minutes and 15 seconds late in Posting this article :yahoo: A Big round of applause for think tank
 
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FFS!!! The MKI has easily one of the best safety records of any fighter in service in any nation- 3 crashes in 10+ years of service and tens of thousands of hours of flight hours!


Despite all these apparent questions China and Pakistan continue to go for these "risky" engines, strange.
 
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On one hand they are complaining about its flaws and on the other they boast about it being the best AC in the world. :cheesy:
U.S boast F22 as the best AC in the world and we all know it is....but still it has flaws.....When aircraft like F15,F22 or F35 can have flaws then what wrong if Su30 Mki has flaws.......You know India,U.S,Russia or any other country in the world are not like Pakistan or China who manufacture every defence product perfectly in their first attempt......


And as far as you pointing out Terms & condition of sales contract were India is not allowed to upgrade Su30 Mki without permission from Russia is concern
......Sir this is a standard procedure followed by all the countries no matter wether its Russia,France,China,British or U.S......Don't tell me that Pakistan will be allowed to upgrade F16,Jf 17 and J10 without American and Chineese permission.....Man even Israel was not allowed to upgrade F16 without U.S permission......
 
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U.S boast F22 as the best AC in the world and we all know it is....but still it has flaws.....When aircraft like F15,F22 or F35 can have flaws then what wrong if Su30 Mki has flaws.......You know India,U.S,Russia or any other country in the world are not like Pakistan or China who manufacture every defence product perfectly in their first attempt......

True. US F-22 crashed 4 times in 7 yrs of service and killed 2 pilots.

IAF MKI crashed 3 times in 10+ yrs service and killed 1 pilot. MKI's safety record is better than
F-22's no doubt.
 
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