Once home of the Calipha - Istanbul

[Azadkashmir]

There are backard secular countries. I think our fault is everyone in pakistan preaches but does not apply it for example explaining to the crowd about littering but they themselves will be throwing the most litter on the street etc. Skirt or no skirt it is having the right honest government that has it interest in developing its ppl. we need industrialization but not immorality.

 

[Cherub786]

I've been to Istanbul Airport once in August 2019 for a layover that lasted couple of hours.
It's nothing special.
I don't really see the attraction of Turkey.
But then again if I visit a country it's to observe its society and for the culture shock, not simply to see old buildings and natural scenery.

 

[truthfollower]

can you please provide the link? would love the whole conversation

i think you cant share here links from reddit?

if it is not allowed sorry in advance mods

https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/kts3d5

Post 1971 oil boom and all those workers who got jobs in Arabia. Then -

• Roza/Ramazan > Ramadan
• Namaz > Salat
• Khuda Hafiz > Allah Hafiz
• etc

then religion has very little role to play. Its only because Arabs are more powerful and richer than Pakistanis.

I was once told khuda hafiz is not a word and urdu is not a language. you can only use assalamu alikum.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Turkish nazis? They are white, might have supremacists

Yes. The Turks have a very strong racist fringe but they are divided and confused. Some of them openly identify with Nazis because the own up to the fact most Turks are genetically 97% European. A genetic test will place your average Turk with a Greek, Italian, Armernian, Georgian and even Russian then with a Saudi Arab. The Central Asian Turkic gene in Turkey is less than 3%. What happened was a small conquering Turkic tribes took over all of Anatolia which had native mnix of Greek and other Europeans. They went on to form the elite and rest converted to Islam. And adopted Turkish language. By 15th century the caliphs in Istanbul were white Europeans as they mixed in with the majority Europeans.

So today the far right either owns up their European heritage or they still cling on to Turkic identity fed by pagan Turkic Tengrism. The Arabs are regarded as the lowest of all in their estimation.


@PAKISTANFOREVER Wonder what would happen if these guys asked question on boyfriends in Lahore or Karachi?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Sultan Erdogan

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood criticizes Erdogan’s call for a secular state

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood criticizes Erdogan’s call for a secular state

<p>Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s call on Egyptians to adopt a secular constitution has created a kind of controversy, just hours before his scheduled meeting with the leaders of the ...</p>

www.alarabiya.net

 

[Indos]

Turkish nazis? They are white, might have supremacists

Sultan Erdogan

View attachment 739778

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood criticizes Erdogan’s call for a secular state

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood criticizes Erdogan’s call for a secular state

<p>Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s call on Egyptians to adopt a secular constitution has created a kind of controversy, just hours before his scheduled meeting with the leaders of the ...</p>

www.alarabiya.net

Secular that he means is that state respect religion and people are free to either be religious or not. I dont see this as against Islamic teaching.

Unlike what happen in Saudi and Iran where women are forced to wear hijab which is actually agaisnt Islamic teaching that respect freewill and very much put emphasis on the important to do any religious duty just for the shake of God, not other thing.

Despite so there is limitation as well, unlike what happen in Western countries, particularly in US with their liberal ideas and practice

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Yes. The Turks have a very strong racist fringe but they are divided and confused. Some of them openly identify with Nazis because the own up to the fact most Turks are genetically 97% European. A genetic test will place your average Turk with a Greek, Italian, Armernian, Georgian and even Russian then with a Saudi Arab. The Central Asian Turkic gene in Turkey is less than 3%. What happened was a small conquering Turkic tribes took over all of Anatolia which had native mnix of Greek and other Europeans. They went on to form the elite and rest converted to Islam. And adopted Turkish language. By 15th century the caliphs in Istanbul were white Europeans as they mixed in with the majority Europeans.

So today the far right either owns up their European heritage or they still cling on to Turkic identity fed by pagan Turkic Tengrism. The Arabs are regarded as the lowest of all in their estimation.


@PAKISTANFOREVER Wonder what would happen if these guys asked question on boyfriends in Lahore or Karachi?

If he did that in Pakistan, he would probably be lynched and rightly so.

Although I agree with most of your reasoning with regards to changing the Pakistani mindset so we become more intelligent, successful and prosperous as a nation, one thing I NEVER want to adopt for our people is the obsession white/western women have with wanting to breed with blacks. Another thing is, WHY are these white/western women obsessed with dating and breeding with blacks/africans?

 

[jamahir]

Sultan Erdogan

View attachment 739778

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood criticizes Erdogan’s call for a secular state

Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood criticizes Erdogan’s call for a secular state

<p>Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s call on Egyptians to adopt a secular constitution has created a kind of controversy, just hours before his scheduled meeting with the leaders of the ...</p>

www.alarabiya.net

The article is from 2011. Since then Erdogan has gotten the Turkish military and intelligence to very prominently get involved in Syria on the side of very non-secular Syrian "moderate rebels" including supplying them with poison gas.

In fact, one of the very first "Syrian rebel" was a Turkish sniper killing Syrian civilians somewhere in Damascus.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

If he did that in Pakistan, he would probably be lynched and rightly so.

Although I agree with most of your reasoning with regards to changing the Pakistani mindset so we become more intelligent, successful and prosperous as a nation, one thing I NEVER want to adopt for our people is the obsession white/western women have with wanting to breed with blacks. Another thing is, WHY are these white/western women obsessed with dating and breeding with blacks/africans?

This very racist...you should not never use the word breed when in relation to human beings...and there is absolutely no problem in Islam if a white Muslim woman chooses to marry and give birth to the kids of a black Muslim man

If he did that in Pakistan, he would probably be lynched and rightly so.

Although I agree with most of your reasoning with regards to changing the Pakistani mindset so we become more intelligent, successful and prosperous as a nation, one thing I NEVER want to adopt for our people is the obsession white/western women have with wanting to breed with blacks. Another thing is, WHY are these white/western women obsessed with dating and breeding with blacks/africans?

This very racist...you should not never use the word breed when in relation to human beings...and there is absolutely no problem in Islam if a white Muslim woman chooses to marry and give birth to the kids of a black Muslim man

 

[Cherub786]

The craze for all things Turkey in Pakistan is largely a Sunni Hanafi phenomenon, but as you all know, Pakistan isn't an exclusively Sunni Hanafi population. The considerable Shiite presence in Pakistan aren't impressed with Turkey at all, and likewise the growing Salafi/Ahle Hadith sect are still beholden to the Saudis and Gulf Arabs.

Although I personally am a Hanafi, I was never impressed with Turkey for a number of reasons. Firstly, I am well aware of their Europeanization and secularity. Secondly, I never identified with their history, the Ottoman empire or the Turks who preceded them. As a matter of fact, based on my study of Islamic eschatology, I believe the Turks are a major component of the dreaded Gog & Magog which the Quran warns us about.

Thirdly, while I respect Erdogan to a certain degree, I'm under no illusion that he represents a permanent new face of Turkey.

Fourthly, the Ertugrul series, which I couldn't get passed the first episode on because it was totally boring, flat dialogue, and uninspiring (I must have more cultivated taste than the average Pakistani) is like 99% fictional.

 

[Indos]

The article is from 2011. Since then Erdogan has gotten the Turkish military and intelligence to very prominently get involved in Syria on the side of very non-secular Syrian "moderate rebels" including supplying them with poison gas.

In fact, one of the very first "Syrian rebel" was a Turkish sniper killing Syrian civilians somewhere in Damascus.

The one that get attacked by poison guys are Rebel hospital, look bro PDF members are people who follow the news, you cannot easily manipulate the fact with your own words without providing any credible sources.

It is well investigated and has been under UN investigation team

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

I believe the Turks are a major component of the dreaded Gog & Magog

 

[denel]

The craze for all things Turkey in Pakistan is largely a Sunni Hanafi phenomenon, but as you all know, Pakistan isn't an exclusively Sunni Hanafi population. The considerable Shiite presence in Pakistan aren't impressed with Turkey at all, and likewise the growing Salafi/Ahle Hadith sect are still beholden to the Saudis and Gulf Arabs.

Although I personally am a Hanafi, I was never impressed with Turkey for a number of reasons. Firstly, I am well aware of their Europeanization and secularity. Secondly, I never identified with their history, the Ottoman empire or the Turks who preceded them. As a matter of fact, based on my study of Islamic eschatology, I believe the Turks are a major component of the dreaded Gog & Magog which the Quran warns us about.

Thirdly, while I respect Erdogan to a certain degree, I'm under no illusion that he represents a permanent new face of Turkey.

Fourthly, the Ertugrul series, which I couldn't get passed the first episode on because it was totally boring, flat dialogue, and uninspiring (I must have more cultivated taste than the average Pakistani) is like 99% fictional.

I whole heartedly agree with your input; however the eastern side of Turkey is what you were seeking. The western side is lost. While I cannot stand Erdogan, he at least brought a sense of normality to a huge population that was marginalised for their religious beliefs.

Just like most tv shows, it is a story but to make it is a work of fact is left to the ministry of propaganda.

 

[Indos]

The craze for all things Turkey in Pakistan is largely a Sunni Hanafi phenomenon, but as you all know, Pakistan isn't an exclusively Sunni Hanafi population. The considerable Shiite presence in Pakistan aren't impressed with Turkey at all, and likewise the growing Salafi/Ahle Hadith sect are still beholden to the Saudis and Gulf Arabs.

Although I personally am a Hanafi, I was never impressed with Turkey for a number of reasons. Firstly, I am well aware of their Europeanization and secularity. Secondly, I never identified with their history, the Ottoman empire or the Turks who preceded them. As a matter of fact, based on my study of Islamic eschatology, I believe the Turks are a major component of the dreaded Gog & Magog which the Quran warns us about.

Thirdly, while I respect Erdogan to a certain degree, I'm under no illusion that he represents a permanent new face of Turkey.

Fourthly, the Ertugrul series, which I couldn't get passed the first episode on because it was totally boring, flat dialogue, and uninspiring (I must have more cultivated taste than the average Pakistani) is like 99% fictional.

How can you say Turkish is related to Gog and Magog.....Turkish soldiers during the conquer of Byzantium strong hold in Today Istanbul is indeed the solders that are praised by prophet Muhammad.

Turk are one of main forces of Muslim world until Today, particularly during the Sultanate and after the military regime is taken down

 

[Cherub786]

How can you say Turkish is related to Gog and Magog.....Turkish soldiers during the conquer of Byzantium strong hold in Today Istanbul is indeed the solders that are praised by prophet Muhammad.

Turk are one of main force of Muslim world until Today, particularly during the Sultanate and after the military regime is taken down

Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم did indeed praise the man and his army who will conquer Constantinople, but it's not certain that this is a reference to the Ottoman Fatih Mehmet or whatever his name was. That's because now Muslims have realized that there is to be a future conquest of Constantinople that hasn't transpired yet. How do we know this? Because the Hadith say that Constantinople shall be conquered by the Muslims after the Malhama but just prior to the emergence of the Antichrist.
That means either sometime in the future Constantinople shall be retaken by the non-Muslims, or that the present nation of Turkey will turn its back on Islam once again and that the city of Istanbul will be conquered by another Muslim force that will be at war with the Republic of Turkey.
Now keep in mind the Prophet said "You shall fight the Turks". This was first fulfilled during the Arab-Khazar wars when the Arab Muslim first encountered a warlike Turkic people in the Caucasus. It culminated in the Mongol Golden Horde in the 13th century that devastated the Muslim lands, putting perhaps tens of millions of Muslims to the sword.
These Turks and Mongols were the hordes of Gog & Magog, even the Muslims at that time realized it. Yes, they subsequently converted to Islam, but their conversion was often hollow, like the conversion of the Bedouins in the early days of Islam. The Quran itself said about those Bedouins that they shouldn't say "we believe" only "we have become Muslims" as Faith has not yet penetrated into their hearts.
In other words, these Turks were basically kachchay Musalman, they continued to practice their pre-Islamic customs and lifestyle and didn't contribute much to the intellectual heritage of Islam, unlike the Persians and Iranians before them. They never produced great Ulama, they did become the face of Islam's strength and military glory.