On hunt for naval ‘Trojan horses’, Parrikar heads to South Korea

[帅的一匹]

This becomes a global procurement trips. Finally they found they have to buy everything.

 

[Ind4Ever]

This becomes a global procurement trips. Finally they found they have to buy everything.

And finally we will have awsome weapon to break our enemy's jaw

 

[帅的一匹]

And finally we will have awsome weapon to break our enemy's jaw

Lol

 

[Ind4Ever]

Lol

Lol

 

[Dillinger]

Haree bhaii ... There will be major modifications in ship design to meet IN requirements. 35-40 k T is not media perceptions but the requirements underlined by Indian Navy itself . And again you are worried about money . At the end of the day sufficient money will be allocated to meet certain requirements even if it's costly . We have money man . We are broke . As that what I can understand from ur comments

Americans deals are different altogether . It's more to do with ToT and other red tapes comes with it . If they are to build ships in India they have no other option to open up all the details about their designs . You seriously have problems with RFI s For some reason you think it's just for fun .

I see. Kindly provide the tender documents here. See for yourself what the IN has specified, that will clear things for you. In terms of defense allocation, yes we are nearly broke. While the navy is fortunate enough in squeezing at least 45 paisa per rupee on capex its committed liabilities leave serious issues against any extravagant acquisitions.Refer to the detailed break-up of planned and un-planned expenditure budget for the forces in this fiscal and things will become clear. Also refer to the IN's 2007 IMMS document to understand exactly why they need such ships and how they plan to employ them- this should make things clear. Whether it is a competitive bid or a G2G deal, the procedures set in place in country do not allow any representative of the GOI to simply acquire a platform which does not conform with the requirements drafted by the concerned operating service.

For designing a clean sheet platform the expenditure will be exorbitant, I cannot figure out as to what gives you the impression that we have money when the IA has to dig into its war wastage reserves to equip its new MSC (as stated in front of the CCS) and when the IAF has over the years never had the resources to stock a spares inventory and thus must cannibalize new built platforms in order to farm spares- things are tough all over for all three of the forces. Might I suggest that you pay attention to the actual outlays being made by the MoD.

 

[Tshering22]

This becomes a global procurement trips. Finally they found they have to buy everything.

Our shipyards are packed to the boot.

There is no space to make new right now for some time, but the Navy needs new ships.

That's why we are tying up with everyone we can to jointly build these ships in either their shipyards or make new ones in India and then start making new warships.

Look at it like a business opportunity cum defence treaty.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Our shipyards are packed to the boot.

There is no space to make new right now for some time, but the Navy needs new ships.

That's why we are tying up with everyone we can to jointly build these ships in either their shipyards or make new ones in India and then start making new warships.

Look at it like a business opportunity cum defence treaty.

Actually I have RFI of LPD . But it's old one . But we re issued RFI with 40000 T max in 2014 . Which I don't have . But to put my case forward I can paste an article by Janes . com . It's not a bad source indeed ...

So let me : Old RFI

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (RFI) FOR CONSTRUCTION OF LPD CLASS OF SHIPS FOR INDIAN NAVY
1. The Ministry of Defence, Government of India, intends to acquire Landing Platform Dock (LPD) class of ships for the Indian Navy under Buy and Make (Indian) category as amplified in Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) 2011.
2. This Request for Information (RFI) consists of two parts as indicated below:-
(a) Part I. The first part of the RFI incorporates operational characteristics and features that should be met by the LPDs. Few important technical parameters of the proposed ships are also mentioned.
(b) Part II. The second part of the RFI states the methodology of seeking response of Shipyards. Submission of incomplete response format may render the Shipyard liable for rejection.
PART-I
3. The Intended Use of LPDs (Operational Requirements). These are specified in the brief Requirements placed at Appendix A of this document.
4. Buy and Make (Indian)’ Procedure. In accordance with the provisions of ‘Buy and Make (Indian)’ procedure, a Capability Definition Document (CDD) would be forwarded to Indian Shipyards, short listed based on RFI responses. The Indian Shipyards, in turn would forward a Detailed Project Proposal outlining the road map for development of design and construction of the ships. The Detailed Project Proposal, thereafter, would be examined by a Project Appraisal Committee (PAC) constituted by the Acquisition Wing of MoD to verify credentials of foreign partner together with confirming acceptability of joint venture of the shipyard with the foreign collaborator.
5. Important Technical Parameters. These are specified in the brief requirements placed at Appendix A of this document. Detailed specifications will be given in the Request for Proposal (RFP) which will be issued to Indian shipyards after verifying their credentials and capabilities to build the ships indigenously with own infrastructural resources based on the assessment of Detailed Project Proposal by the PAC and as highlighted vide para 4 above.
6. Shipyard should confirm that following conditions are acceptable:-
(a) The solicitation of offers will be as per ‘Single Stage-Two Bid System’. It would imply that a ‘Request for Proposal’ would be issued soliciting the
technical and commercial offers together, but in two separate sealed envelopes. The validity of commercial offers would be at least 18 months from the date of submitting of offers.
(b) The technical offers would be evaluated by a Technical Evaluation Committee (TEC) to check its compliance with RFP.
(c) Amongst the Shipyards cleared by TEC, a Contract Negotiations Committee (CNC) would decide the lowest cost bidder (L1) and conclude the appropriate contract.
(d) The Shipyard would be bound to provide product support for the time period specified in the RFP, which includes spares and maintenance tools/jigs/fixtures/documentation for training for field and component level repairs.
(e) The vendor would be required to accept the general conditions of contract given in the Standard Contract Document at Chapter V of DPP 2011 placed on Ministry of Defence Government of India
(f) Offset Clause. Implementation of Offset provisions will be required as applicable in accordance with Appendix D of Chapter I of DPP-11.
(g) Integrity Pact (if applicable). An integrity pact along with appropriate EMD will be required if applicable in the instant case (refer Annexure I to Appendix H of schedule I of Chapter I of DPP-11).
(h) Performance-cum-Warranty Bond. A Performance-cum-Warranty Bond equal to 5% value of the contract is required to be submitted after signing of the contract.
(j) ToT (If applicable). In accordance with the provision of Buy & Make (Indian) procedure.
7. Procedure for Response.
PART-II
(a) Shipyard must fill the form of response, as applicable, as given in Appendix B (Appendix E of Chapter I of DPP-11) and Appendix C of this document. Apart from filling details about Shipyard, following details about the exact vessel meeting the mentioned Operational/ Technical specifications (Appendix A) are to be submitted:-

(i) Feasibility to build the LPDs with the enclosed specifications (Appendix A). Any modification to the specifications can be suggested by the Shipyard with suitable justification.
(ii) Budgetary quotes with break up of cost.
(iii) Build Period
(iv) Experience in Building similar vessels along with client details.
(v) MOU, if any, with respect to design aspects
(b) The filled form should be dispatched at under mentioned address: -
The Principal Director of Ship Production Directorate of Ship Production IHQ-MoD(N), D-II Wing, Sena Bhavan, New Delhi 110011.
Tele: 0091-11-23010758
Fax : 0091-11-23010803 / 23010142
E-Mail: dsp-navy@nic.in, dspdspdsp@rediffmail.com
(c) Last date of acceptance of filled forms along with details sought is 07 Mar 2011. The Shipyards short listed for issue of RFP would be intimated.
8. The Government of India invites responses to this request only from Indian Shipyards, having their own infrastructure and capability of building LPD class of ships. The end user of the LPDs is the Indian Navy.
9. This information is being issued with no financial commitment and the Ministry of Defence reserves the right to change or vary any part thereof at any stage. The Government of India also reserves the right to withdraw it, should it be so necessary at any stage. The acquisition process would be carried out under the provisions of DPP 2011.

OPERATIONAL / TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS FOR LPD
Appendix A
1. The Indian Navy seeks information from prospective Indian ship builders for design and construction of Landing Platform Dock (LPD) class of ships. The ships would be constructed in India under Buy and Make (Indian) categorization as amplified in Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) 2011.
2. The design of basic hull form, propulsion machinery and major equipment except the weapon and sensors fit, should be derived from a proven world class design of an LPD of similar dimensions. The details of proposed classification society and class notation are also to be provided. In case the design is being bought, the shipyard should have an MOU with the designer for construction of LPD at the time of submission of tenders. The design would be vetted by IHQ, MoD (N), at the time of technical evaluation of tenders.
3. The broad specifications of the ship are as follows:-
(a) The length of the ship would be approx 200 m. Breadth is to be commensurate with the length and tonnage of the ship.
(b) The draught of the ship is not to exceed 08 m.
(c) The ship is expected to have an endurance of 45 days.
(d) The ship is to have Diesel-Electric propulsion in either of the following configuration:-
(i) Twin shaft configuration, with twin rudders and Fixed Pitch Propellers or,
(ii) Shock graded podded propulsion.
(e) The ship is to have a suitable well deck for amphibious operations. The ship would carry amphibious crafts like LCMs or LCACs and LCVPs on davits and should have capability to launch these crafts when underway.
(f) The ship is expected to have a carriage of combat vehicles on one or more vehicle deck. This area should be adequate to embark Main Battle Tank (MBT), AAVs/BMP Class armoured vehicles and heavy trucks.
(g) The ship would be equipped with a Point Defence Missile System, Close In Weapon System, Anti Torpedo Decoy system, Chaff System and HMGs/ LMGs. In addition, ship would have one E/ F band combined air and surface surveillance radar and one C/D band air surveillance radar. All of these would be buyer nominated equipment.
(h) The ship is expected to carry army troops in addition to ship crew.
(j) The ship should have capability of simultaneous operation by day/ night of Special Operation Helicopters and Large Helicopters (upto 35 tons).
4. Construction. The construction must be undertaken employing modern Build Strategy allowing for integrated construction to derive benefits of high degree of pre-outfitting at block level to facilitate very short build period.
5. Contract. All terms and conditions of the contract will be in accordance with the latest Defence Procurement Procedure DPP- 2011 that is available on the MoD Ministry of Defence Government of India
6. The following information is required from shipyards:-
(a) Proposed time frame for construction of ships, in terms of number of years for the delivery of vessels
(b) Capabilities of the shipyard to undertake this project, both in terms of capacity building and past experience in constructing vessels of similar size and tonnage.
(c) Capacity for ship design and equipment integration.
(d) Possible tie-ups with foreign shipyards, if any.

And now this is our new RFI which I don't have but I quote from a reputed source :

India re-releases LPD tender to private-sector shipyards
Rahul Bedi, New Delhi - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
20 October 2014
India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) reissued a request for proposal (RfP) in mid-September to three local private sector shipyards to build four amphibious assault ships for an estimated INR250 billion (USD4.16 billion.

The RfP to ABG, Larsen & Toubro (L&T), and Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering - all located on India's west coast - seeks a builder for 40,000-tonne landing platform docks (LPDs) for the Indian Navy (IN). Completion is requested by 2027.

IN officials said all three contenders would be permitted to enter into joint ventures (JVs) with foreign original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) to design and build the LPDs.




To read the full article, Client Login
(100 of 363 words)

India re-releases LPD tender to private-sector shipyards - IHS Jane's 360

I see. Kindly provide the tender documents here. See for yourself what the IN has specified, that will clear things for you. In terms of defense allocation, yes we are nearly broke. While the navy is fortunate enough in squeezing at least 45 paisa per rupee on capex its committed liabilities leave serious issues against any extravagant acquisitions.Refer to the detailed break-up of planned and un-planned expenditure budget for the forces in this fiscal and things will become clear. Also refer to the IN's 2007 IMMS document to understand exactly why they need such ships and how they plan to employ them- this should make things clear. Whether it is a competitive bid or a G2G deal, the procedures set in place in country do not allow any representative of the GOI to simply acquire a platform which does not conform with the requirements drafted by the concerned operating service.

For designing a clean sheet platform the expenditure will be exorbitant, I cannot figure out as to what gives you the impression that we have money when the IA has to dig into its war wastage reserves to equip its new MSC (as stated in front of the CCS) and when the IAF has over the years never had the resources to stock a spares inventory and thus must cannibalize new built platforms in order to farm spares- things are tough all over for all three of the forces. Might I suggest that you pay attention to the actual outlays being made by the MoD.

And again there are lots of difference between spending our money on single project purchase and spending on over all defence equipments.
I mean right now we can buy 126 rafale off the shelf ( even though we won't) but the thing is we have other plans on which we need to spend our money on .

So if an equipment is needed when though it is heavily priced we could go for it. Same in the case of Rafale M which we wr discussing yesterday on 64 rafale thread . So again i may say i placed my bet rightly

I wonder why we don't have any big shipyards in the eastern coast.

We already planned one. Which will be largest ever.

 

[Tshering22]

The RfP to ABG, Larsen & Toubro (L&T), and Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering - all located on India's west coast - seeks a builder for 40,000-tonne landing platform docks (LPDs) for the Indian Navy (IN). Completion is requested by 2027.

I wonder why we don't have any big shipyards in the eastern coast.

 

[The Huskar]

i

That's not a point as of now. We already requested for 35-40 T LPD . So no use of debating it at this point . If it's huge let it be . There must be a plan already in place . That too now DM has gone with motive in getting G2G agreement again . Let's see. As far as I know all the article from the beginning mentioned the same when these requirements are not available abroad

I would be very happy if IN decides to purchase 40000 ton vessel.They would act like aircraft carriers if IN decides to purchase F-35B in near future but chances of it are very slim.Let hope MOD takes a correct and earnest decision and not make it another fiasco like MMRCA.

 

[Ind4Ever]

i

I would be very happy if IN decides to purchase 40000 ton vessel.They would act like aircraft carriers if IN decides to purchase F-35B in near future but chances of it are very slim.Let hope MOD takes a correct and earnest decision and not make it another fiasco like MMRCA.

They have calculated it around 35-40 . So still it's not clear how it will happen . For this changes has to be made in design . But the french said their LPD can be modified to the requirements of IN from dimensions to capacity. Looks like we are interested in making everyone happy . Each will get new deals as it seems

 

[The Huskar]

They have calculated it around 35-40 . So still it's not clear how it will happen . For this changes has to be made in design . But the french said their LPD can be modified to the requirements of IN from dimensions to capacity. Looks like we are interested in making everyone happy . Each will get new deals as it seems

Actually French Mistral has a redesigned tonnage of 29000 but that is more than enough for a very capable LPD.

 

[Dillinger]

Actually I have RFI of LPD . But it's old one . But we re issued RFI with 40000 T max in 2014 . Which I don't have . But to put my case forward I can paste an article by Janes . com . It's not a bad source indeed ...

So let me : Old RFI



And now this is our new RFI which I don't have but I quote from a reputed source :

India re-releases LPD tender to private-sector shipyards
Rahul Bedi, New Delhi - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
20 October 2014
India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) reissued a request for proposal (RfP) in mid-September to three local private sector shipyards to build four amphibious assault ships for an estimated INR250 billion (USD4.16 billion.

The RfP to ABG, Larsen & Toubro (L&T), and Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering - all located on India's west coast - seeks a builder for 40,000-tonne landing platform docks (LPDs) for the Indian Navy (IN). Completion is requested by 2027.

IN officials said all three contenders would be permitted to enter into joint ventures (JVs) with foreign original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) to design and build the LPDs.




To read the full article, Client Login
(100 of 363 words)

India re-releases LPD tender to private-sector shipyards - IHS Jane's 360



And again there are lots of difference between spending our money on single project purchase and spending on over all defence equipments.
I mean right now we can buy 126 rafale off the shelf ( even though we won't) but the thing is we have other plans on which we need to spend our money on .

So if an equipment is needed when though it is heavily priced we could go for it. Same in the case of Rafale M which we wr discussing yesterday on 64 rafale thread . So again i may say i placed my bet rightly



We already planned one. Which will be largest ever.

I am a paid subscriber at Janes, you should read their complete spread on it, and then see the source they have referenced, they picked the data right of our own news articles. The reason I am being particular about this is because I am aware of the particulars of the tender and I happen to know why the sudden spurt of articles claiming a higher tonnage are surfacing. The only reporter who has done his homework on this issue is Saurav Jha.

The re-tendering did not lead to a change in parameters, only the inclusion of pvt. yards.

Have enough money to buy 126 Rafales! We don't have enough to pay the 6 billion tab on the fly-away fighters and associated simulators at the moment in one go and will be paying in yearly outlays. Do you think the government will simply spend more if it sees that it doesn't have enough money? The forces stick to their budget, it is out of their capex that equipment is bought, they'll stick to that. As things stand right now, Navantia along with L&T have best chance of bagging this tender (which is good news, since after the Wasp it is Navantia which has the best product on offer). The only way the IN will be operating a 40,000 ton LHD is if the GOI scraps this tender too and opts for a G2G with USA for the Northrop Ship Systems platform.

 

[Juggernautjatt]

I wonder why we don't have any big shipyards in the eastern coast.

Yes we have a large private shipyard in the eastern coast. The Kattupalli Shipyard cum Captive Port Complex of L & T is situated at Kattupalli village near Ennore of Chennai. Apart from that Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Limited (GRSE) Kolkata is also going through upgradation programme to undertake construction of large ships using latest modular construction technology.

 

[Tshering22]

Yes we have a large private shipyard in the eastern coast. The Kattupalli Shipyard cum Captive Port Complex of L & T is situated at Kattupalli village near Ennore of Chennai. Apart from that Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Limited (GRSE) Kolkata is also going through upgradation programme to undertake construction of large ships using latest modular construction technology.

They should look at new sites for port building in Andhra and Odisha. It will help the new Andhra and the stable Odisha economy grow faster and create more jobs.

This South Korean venture proposed is best suited.

 

[ZooZoo]

This becomes a global procurement trips. Finally they found they have to buy everything.

Ok...