NYC bus ads asking 'Leaving Islam?' cause a stir

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

For Islamists, the idea that Islam could be 'inferior' to another religion is offensive.

The adds are not proclaiming the 'superiority' of another faith (for example come to Christ or Bhuddist peace or whatever) they are calling for people to leave Islam and suggesting that 'fatwas and violence' is what Islam stands for.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Bah!! Who cares? Why do you people get hyper over irrelevant things? There are a million websites or groups that mock different religions or beliefs, if we start getting offended over every one of them, we would have a serious problem. Learn to ignore it.

Why should insults to ones identity and/or faith be left unanswered?

I don't see many getting hyper here - most are pointing out why the ads are derogatory and how they are focused on denigrating Islam rather than proselytizing another faith.

Nor are most responding in kind by denigrating other faiths here. Civil discourse to point out that these ads are hatemongering propaganda is completely acceptable AND necessary.

 

[harrymohan]

Why should insults to ones identity and/or faith be left unanswered?

I don't see many getting hyper here - most are pointing out why the ads are derogatory and how they are focused on denigrating Islam rather than proselytizing another faith.

Nor are most responding in kind by denigrating other faiths here. Civil discourse to point out that these ads are hatemongering propaganda is completely acceptable AND necessary.

I think wat Nemesis wanted to say was recent events which included Facebook, SouthPark and Youtube incidents. I won't go into wat's right, wrong, acceptable or unacceptable as it will lead to more debate/fighting.

 

[manojb]

"All religions are flawed...... As men are flawed"

 

[notsuperstitious]

Typically proselytizing focuses on advertising ones own faith, not denigrating another.

Not at all true, poselytizing most of the time is just subtle version of the same stuff. I saw this today morning in Dubai on a car

'Worship the creator, not the creation' (bridge to faith.com or some).

Who do you think this 'cheap shot' was aimed at??? I did not even read it twice.

Just because its Islam people are overreacting as always. they should learn to get over themselves, that way such ads will also become irrelevant!

 

[khanz]

good way to promote islam as they say any publicity is good publicity now after seeing these ads people will become more curious about islam plus she's doing it on her dime lol plus is just shows how fast islam is growing in the U.S she feels threatened enough to spend thousands of dollars for these adverts on islam kinda flattering really.

 

[gambit]

The adds are not proclaiming the 'superiority' of another faith (for example come to Christ or Bhuddist peace or whatever) they are calling for people to leave Islam and suggesting that 'fatwas and violence' is what Islam stands for.

That is not the intention, of course. But whether a religion is 'superior' or not is an internally developed argument. Islamists would rather not have that kind of conflict in the public or private sphere.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Fateh the example u gave is alot different from this scenerio....... this car or vehicle read WORSHIP CREATOR NOT THE CREATED .... but in the NYC bus case it read LEAVE ISLAM..... Wat if u go to a country and u pass by a bus with a label specificaly readin LEAVE HINDUISM?
On facebook u cant say heil seige or Hail hitler.....but on the same FB u can draw Muhhamad SAWs insulting drawings? on the name of freedom of speech????
They say ur freedom to punch ends where my nose starts........ if Muslims are getting hurt why do such a thing? how many muslims have u seen drawing pictures of yahwa or moses? or joking about religious figures such as jesus,moses or others?
NONE.
Why specifically MUSLIMS?

U say something to a jew ur a ANTI SEMATIC,U say something to a black person ur RACIST, U insult Muslims its FREEDOM OF SPEECH?WHY?

 

[Hammy007]

In a way its good; Islam really needs to get rid of those who are following it for the namesake. There are many who are called Muslims or viewed as Muslims by others only because they were born to Muslim parents; such folks have no respect for Islam nor do they follow it. Ideally, this add should have come from some Muslim organization for those who want to quit Islam. That way both will get rid of their misery, the half hearted namesake followers, and to greater extent, the religion Islam itself. The Islamic Scholars argue that once a person is entered in Islam, he/she must not leave Islam and if attempted, he/she will be declared 'murtid' and sentenced to death according to Sharia. I think this concept needs to be revised and those who want to leave, must be encouraged to do so. Islam does not need sheer number of followers, Islam needs good quality followers, who follow Islam in its real spirit as described in Quran and Hadith.

well a bit emotional, the rational thinking is, allah can still turn strayed hearts towards him, he can give hidayat to them, well i have personal story to shae, our cousins who reside in the US and their daddy is damn rich too, were very modern type, i recently heard the news that the younger of them had totally become islamic or changed his life style or what you people call it, and whereas he had never wittnessed a prayer in his family, he is now a prays five time regularly now..

i met him 10 years ago and he was totally like a typical american...well

 

[notsuperstitious]

Fateh the example u gave is alot different from this scenerio....... this car or vehicle read WORSHIP CREATOR NOT THE CREATED .... but in the NYC bus case it read LEAVE ISLAM..... Wat if u go to a country and u pass by a bus with a label specificaly readin LEAVE HINDUISM?
On facebook u cant say heil seige or Hail hitler.....but on the same FB u can draw Muhhamad SAWs insulting drawings? on the name of freedom of speech????
They say ur freedom to punch ends where my nose starts........ if Muslims are getting hurt why do such a thing? how many muslims have u seen drawing pictures of yahwa or moses? or joking about religious figures such as jesus,moses or others?
NONE.
Why specifically MUSLIMS?

U say something to a jew ur a ANTI SEMATIC,U say something to a black person ur RACIST, U insult Muslims its FREEDOM OF SPEECH?WHY?

I was specifically replying to AM's contention which I've quoted, I was saying some ppl are subtle, some are not.

Besides, have you not read about images of hindu gods printed on slippers / underwear etc? Have you heard george carlin openly taking apart christianity in his shows etc etc? you should, he's damn funny. Its not specifically muslims, all faiths are fair game.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Pamela Geller, the woman who is behind the bus ads, is a right-wing fanatic and a bit of a nut, I suppose. She is an equal opportunity hater who does not stop at Islam but has outraged countless others with her lunatic statements.

She has money and America has freedom of expression for all, so she can pay for these things if she wants and say what she wants, like it or not.

What if they said, "Leaving Christianity?" Nothing much would happen. Plenty of Christian Americans would be outraged but the ads would stay and there are countless anti-Christian groups in America already. Most Americans pay little attention to people like her.

Here is an article detailing how extreme her views are..

Pamela Geller: The Looniest Blogger Ever | loonwatch.com

 

[Omar1984]

You cant force anyone to stay in Islam. If a person doesnt believe in One God and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the messenger of God then that person has already left Islam and is no longer Muslim.

 

[fawwaxs]

NEW YORK: The questions on the ads aren't subtle: Leaving Islam? Fatwa on your head? Is your family threatening you?



A conservative activist and the organizations she leads have paid several thousand dollars for the ads to run on at least 30 city buses for a month.



The ads point to a website called RefugefromIslam.com, which offers information to those wishing to leave Islam, but some Muslims are calling the ads a smoke screen for an anti-Muslim agenda.



Pamela Geller, who leads an organization called Stop Islamization of America, said the ads were meant to help provide resources for Muslims who are fearful of leaving the faith.



''It's not offensive to Muslims, it's religious freedom,'' she said. ''It's not targeted at practicing Muslims. It doesn't say 'leave,' it says 'leaving' with a question mark.''



Geller said the ad buy cost about $8,000, contributed by the readers of her blog, Atlas Shrugs, and other websites. Similar ads have run on buses in Miami, and she said ad buys were planned for other cities.



Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials said Geller's ad was reviewed and did not violate the agency's guidelines.



''The religion in question would not change the determination that the language in the ad does not violate guidelines,'' MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz said Wednesday.



All ads are screened, MTA spokesman Aaron Donovan said. Most are reviewed by the company that handles the MTA's advertising opportunities, but some are sent to the MTA for ultimate approval.



Last month, Miami-Dade Transit pulled the ads from 10 buses after deciding they ''may be offensive to Islam,'' according to The Miami Herald. But the agency decided to reinstall them after reviewing the ads with the county attorney's office.



The county decided ''although they may be considered offensive by some, they do not fall under the general guidelines that would warrant their removal,'' Transit spokesman Clinton Forbes told the newspaper.



Glenn Smith, a professor at California Western School of Law in San Diego, said discriminating against the ads could result in constitutional issues for the city.



While people may find the content objectionable, courts have ruled that the First Amendment requires Americans to put up with ''a lot of unenlightened and objectionable messages,'' he said.



''It's sort of the price of keeping government out of the marketplace of ideas,'' he said.



Eugene Volokh, a First Amendment expert at UCLA School of Law, said the ads could leave some Muslims reluctant to ride the bus. There could also be a risk that some extremist groups might bomb the buses, although that possibility wouldn't limit free speech rights, he said.



The agency had received no complaints since the ads went up on May 14, MTA spokesman Aaron Donovan said. The 30 or so buses with the ads pass through all five boroughs of the city.



Council member Robert Jackson, a Muslim, said he had not seen the ad. But he questioned the criteria the MTA uses in determining what is appropriate.



He also takes issue with the content. He doesn't believe anyone is being forced to stay in a religion, especially in America, which was built on religious freedom.



''I think this is a campaign by the extreme right, those that are against the Muslim religion,'' he said. ''Quite frankly, I would think the average New Yorker would take it for what it's worth.''



Faiza Ali, of the New York chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said the ads were based on a false premise that people face coercion to remain with Islam. She said Muslims believe faith that is forced is not true belief.



''Geller is free to say what she likes just as concerned community members are free to criticize her motives,'' Ali said.



Geller has a history of speaking out against Muslims, and the ads are ''a smoke screen to advance her long-standing history of anti-Muslim bigotry,'' Ali said.



Geller said she had no problem with Muslims, but was working to ''maintain the separation of mosque and state.'' She is also among those speaking out against the building of a mosque and cultural center near ground zero. -AP

 

[billi]

I wrote "Islamic scholars argue. ...", whereas I could have also written "Islam says. ..." or "Sharia laws says. ....". The word 'argue' itself is an indicative of the issue of "'murtid and its punishment" debatable. It was written in pretty simple English and you should had no problem understanding it. In fact what little I know about Quran and Hadith, this kind of punishment was never suggested or advocated. My understanding is, this (the Punishment) was used as a politico-religious tool by Muslim conquerors to intimidate and keep in line the fresh converts, who converted to Islam to avoid to pay 'jizya' or to gain related benefits of being a Muslim. The idea was to make sure that once people are converted to Islam, they should never be able to revert back if and when a 'favorable' time comes such as when Spain was taken back from Moors.

At any rate, I believe that the namesake-Muslims should have all the liberty, in fact, they should be highly encouraged to leave Islam ASAP. There should also be a dedicated 'fund' for such converts and if they need some monetary compensation for this 'great service' of quitting Islam for good, they should be.

Tu na mit jye ga Iran key mit jaaney sey
Nasha e mey to taaluq nahiN paimney sey
Hey ayaN yurush e Tatar key afsaaney sey
PasbaaN mil gye Kaabey ko sanamkhaney sey

If one enters Islam and then wants to leave then its murtid.
But if one is born into an Islam family, and wants to leave then is there a punishment.

 

[qsaark]

If one enters Islam and then wants to leave then its murtid.
But if one is born into an Islam family, and wants to leave then is there a punishment.

A person who was born to Muslim parents and than left Islam is also considered an apostasy (murtid) and his punishment according to the scholars is what is for a 'murtid'. But again, there is no specific mention of the punishment in Quran or Hadith. There are warnings of course, but no categorically mentioned punishments.