NUREMBERG----The Trial:---Absolutely Worth Watching

[padamchen]

Hi,

Thank you---. I am glad the way you wrote the second para---.

The americans have become the same as the ones who they conquered---.

And amazingly---the jews have also switched the roles---.

Both switched their stance 180 deg---.

What Goering says to the doc about the Americans, Germans vs Japs and the racial angle, the test hypothesis, bang on.

A man without morals. Or empathy. A sociopath. But bang on.

Cheers, Doc

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

When I was growing up in the 60's---the attitudes towards hard work---discipline---a show of character were different till Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto came to power---.

Pkaistan was a very young innocent nation at that time---. It takes generations for character and discipline and work ethics to build in---but it takes only a very short time to destroy those characteristics---.

Those of us---who got stuck to older values---we became a nobody over a matter of time---our wealth disappeared because we could not bring ourselves to replenish it 'thru other means'---we lost our social standing---we lost our political clout---we lost our say in the system because the new system did not have any use of our values---we got sidelined and got left behind---.

 

[Humble Analyst]

The whole nation is pretty blind - and it shows.

The problem is emotional intelligence and people are easily manipulated using emotional tactics. Emotions represent life but should be well controlled and directed in the right direction. Right now since Bhutto people have been emotionally exploited because they allow others to do so.
History books taught in Pakistani schools are written based upon emotional accounts and not reality.

Hi,

When I was growing up in the 60's---the attitudes towards hard work---discipline---a show of character were different till Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto came to power---.

Pkaistan was a very young innocent nation at that time---. It takes generations for character and discipline and work ethics to build in---but it takes only a very short time to destroy those characteristics---.

Those of us---who got stuck to older values---we became a nobody over a matter of time---our wealth disappeared because we could not bring ourselves to replenish it 'thru other means'---we lost our social standing---we lost our political clout---we lost our say in the system because the new system did not have any use of our values---we got sidelined and got left behind---.

My father was one of the affected. Bhutto destroyed the fabric of the country and what worries me is most of the Pakistanis do not realize or understand what Bhutto did to Pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Actually---the nation is not totally blind yet---. The 'good' is still there---though crippled and pummeled---yet the people are desperately searching for some hope---some light at the end of the tunnel---.

Why---because what they see is not what they want---. Because it is against their INHERENT characteristics & beliefs---. Until & unless those characteristic beliefs are crushed and pulverized---the hope for a better future will be there---.

Pakistan and its pubic will never have a democracy without the involvement of its military in the system---. The military is a part & parcel of our lives---.

For us pakistanis---military presence runs parallel to any elected govt at all times---sometimes one group takes advantage---at other times the other group moves ahead---.

It is only when the pakistanis understand and realize that tactically---it is better to utilize their services and have the presence of the military in the national security council as one of the major forces in tackling the national & across the border issues with interests of Pakistan 'the nation' as first and foremost---.

 

[VCheng]

Blind following eventually leads to destruction either by the leaders or external forces.
In some cases it results in rebel attitude and anarchy but after a long long time.

Well, it is nearly three-fourths of a century for Pakistan and counting. And many more than that for Germany. If you define anarchy as lawlessness, does Pakistan still have a long time to indulge itself?

 

[Thorough Pro]

For me that was the best part of the movie, stating the real truth. Wondering if the movie was made by Brits?

What Goering says to the doc about the Americans, Germans vs Japs and the racial angle, the test hypothesis, bang on.

A man without morals. Or empathy. A sociopath. But bang on.

Cheers, Doc

As they say it takes a 100 years to build character and a second to destroy it.

Hi,

When I was growing up in the 60's---the attitudes towards hard work---discipline---a show of character were different till Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto came to power---.

Pkaistan was a very young innocent nation at that time---. It takes generations for character and discipline and work ethics to build in---but it takes only a very short time to destroy those characteristics---.

Those of us---who got stuck to older values---we became a nobody over a matter of time---our wealth disappeared because we could not bring ourselves to replenish it 'thru other means'---we lost our social standing---we lost our political clout---we lost our say in the system because the new system did not have any use of our values---we got sidelined and got left behind---.

 

[VCheng]

The problem is emotional intelligence and people are easily manipulated using emotional tactics. Emotions represent life but should be well controlled and directed in the right direction. Right now since Bhutto people have been emotionally exploited because they allow others to do so.
History books taught in Pakistani schools are written based upon emotional accounts and not reality.

Who has not exploited that emotionality? The Army is an expert at it. Bhuttos, Zardaris, Sharifs, MQM, the Mullah Brigades, heck even PDF management here as a microcosmic example. They all know they can get away with twisting the gullible to serve their own purposes.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Well, it is nearly three-fourths of a century for Pakistan and counting. And many more than that for Germany. If you define anarchy as lawlessness, does Pakistan still have a long time to indulge itself?

They were different types of eras in Pakistan and the biggest problem was the last decade when in the name of Democracy most of the corruption was done.
Elaborating the anarchy part it does not have to be full scale but not paying taxes and protesting against paying them appear to be anarchy which current government is trying to deal with. To answer your question no Pakistan cannot afford to be on the wrong path.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

And yet the Germans rose from the ashes after Hitler. Not Pakistan, even after all this time.

That's an oversimplification. Marshall plan, Cold War had a huge part to play in Germany's revival. The allies had no desire to repeat the mistakes that caused ww2 after ww1 (I.e. driving Germans to poverty and naziism). You just can't compare the two countries as a whole in terms of their historical timelines. The OP referred to the similarities in terms of hero worship and blind obedience to a charismatic leader. Though I never realized nawaz Sharif had charisma beyond that of a broom handle.

 

[VCheng]

You just can't compare the two countries as a whole in terms of their historical timelines. The OP referred to the similarities in terms of hero worship and blind obedience to a charismatic leader.

I am still having difficulty accepting that assertion made originally in this thread. What true leader has Pakistan had after Jinnah?

 

[Humble Analyst]

Who has not exploited that emotionality? The Army is an expert at it. Bhuttos, Zardaris, Sharifs, MQM, the Mullah Brigades, heck even PDF management here as a microcosmic example. They all know they can get away with twisting the gullible to serve their own purposes.

I tend to agree with you about Pakistanis being exploited. Then this happens all over the World but the nature and extent is different. This needs to change and long term welfare of the country and people should be the guiding light.

 

[VCheng]

They were different types of eras in Pakistan and the biggest problem was the last decade when in the name of Democracy most of the corruption was done.
Elaborating the anarchy part it does not have to be full scale but not paying taxes and protesting against paying them appear to be anarchy which current government is trying to deal with. To answer your question no Pakistan cannot afford to be on the wrong path.

As many on PDF thought, PMIK's term may be make-or-break time for Pakistan. I do not think it has much time left to get its house in order.

I tend to agree with you about Pakistanis being exploited. Then this happens all over the World but the nature and extent is different. This needs to change and long term welfare of the country and people should be the guiding light.

Yes, how much guiding light can the blind provide?

 

[Humble Analyst]

As many on PDF thought, PMIK's term may be make-or-break time for Pakistan. I do not think it has much time left to get its house in order.



Yes, how much guiding light can the blind provide?

Yes Pakistan is at the crossroads

 

[VCheng]

Yes Pakistan is at the crossroads

And there are no short cuts. PMIK must be given his complete term.

 

[Humble Analyst]

As many on PDF thought, PMIK's term may be make-or-break time for Pakistan. I do not think it has much time left to get its house in order.



Yes, how much guiding light can the blind provide?

Well let me add it has to come from inside but no one from outside will be sincere enough.