Not to relevant question on Rare earth metals

[Shamain]

Edit: thread title is meant to be 'not too relevant question'. Misspelled too.


Chinese tell me as you guys are hegemons or have monopoly in mining, producing rare earth metals., last i had read was that you people are supplying 90pc of rare earth metals consumed accross the globe,(correct me if wrong). So i wanted to know that with the kind of relations china has with usa and america basically being one of the biggest threats to chinas sovereignty, then comes japan, cant china use rare earth metals as weapon to arm twist these nations.
See mining these metals is no kids job, miners in this industry are likely to be exposed to hazardous fumes etc and incidence of cancer is also higher amongst rare earth metal miners which is also the reason many countries havent ventured into this industry.

Once china blocks these metals exports, all these countries will suffer a slowdown in gadgetry manufacturing including sophisticated, sensitive ones too , and naturally their defence industry will or could also get affected.

So my question is that with china enjoying this monopoly status, why america etc think they can easily mess with her and getaway with it without facing any serious repercussions?

i could be wrong on many levels of my question. Anyhow, so what do u think?
And of now i am familiar with WTO agreements and obligations on china regarding exports, but..when things go awry..?

 

[70U63]

China monopoly rare earth mineral because other countries don't want to do it. It is very polluting industry (to health and environment) if you don't monitor carefully. Therefore, some people and environment especially in China has to pay heavy price for these.

Rare earth can be found in many places around the world including USA and Australia. Currently Australia's Lynas company is operating one of the biggest (or the biggest) rare earth processing plant in the world, which the plant is located in Pahang State of Malaysia. The mineral is imported from Australia. Without going into the detail (political issue), if Malaysia authority don't monitor how the plant treat the waste, future Malaysian will pay for the price for being dumb.

I also believe USA also restart (or already have) their rare earth industry, which they previously stopped because of the pollution issue.

To say China monopoly the trade of that mineral is bs to me, because other country don't want to do it.

 

[hans]

It is a cost-price issue.
China is supplying the rare earth metals with very low price in the past.
So other countries does not have benefit to mine their own..
But with rare earth metal price goes up very fast in last a few years, the other countries start to mine their own..
Now the price is lower from high peak.

China do have rich rare earth metal in the world, but other countries also have quite a lot.

Edit: thread title is meant to be 'not too relevant question'. Misspelled too.


Chinese tell me as you guys are hegemons or have monopoly in mining, producing rare earth metals., last i had read was that you people are supplying 90pc of rare earth metals consumed accross the globe,(correct me if wrong). So i wanted to know that with the kind of relations china has with usa and america basically being one of the biggest threats to chinas sovereignty, then comes japan, cant china use rare earth metals as weapon to arm twist these nations.
See mining these metals is no kids job, miners in this industry are likely to be exposed to hazardous fumes etc and incidence of cancer is also higher amongst rare earth metal miners which is also the reason many countries havent ventured into this industry.

Once china blocks these metals exports, all these countries will suffer a slowdown in gadgetry manufacturing including sophisticated, sensitive ones too , and naturally their defence industry will or could also get affected.

So my question is that with china enjoying this monopoly status, why america etc think they can easily mess with her and getaway with it without facing any serious repercussions?

i could be wrong on many levels of my question. Anyhow, so what do u think?
And of now i am familiar with WTO agreements and obligations on china regarding exports, but..when things go awry..?

 

[xunzi]

He's talking about in case of war. The US has strategic reserve for military purpose. Commercial wise, yes it will affect the global electronic industry but military wise, I doubt it. The US has reserve for that. That's why they are not scare to intimidate us.

 

[Aepsilons]

Eye on China, India and Japan look at rare earth minerals | The Indian Express

 

[Shamain]

He's talking about in case of war. The US has strategic reserve for military purpose. Commercial wise, yes it will affect the global electronic industry but military wise, I doubt it. The US has reserve for that. That's why they are not scare to intimidate us.

Yea this s what iwas also asking from war point of view,i dnt think usa has lots of rare earth mines

It is a cost-price issue.
China is supplying the rare earth metals with very low price in the past.
So other countries does not have benefit to mine their own..
But with rare earth metal price goes up very fast in last a few years, the other countries start to mine their own..
Now the price is lower from high peak.

China do have rich rare earth metal in the world, but other countries also have quite a lot.

Ahan ididnt know of other countries having enough of these natural tapped or untapped reserves. What is cost price issue?

 

[Shamain]

Eye on China, India and Japan look at rare earth minerals | The Indian Express

Okay for those who are interested ,the article nihonjin has posted is worth reading. Actually in a sense it shows abt China's dominance in the industry.

Ninhonjin actually one of the reasons in mining rare earths is that it badly affects the health of miners. Right now china is in a way making sacrifice of human live for providing it to the whole world, from what i know. So God bless everyones health.

I am posting some parts of article whose link was given by nihonjin

"Even as Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s overarching message during his recently concluded China tour was that of ramping up the level of engagement between the two countries, a strategic collaboration between India and Japan for the production of rare earths, floated primarily to counter the Chinese hegemony in this sector, is set to break fresh ground. Rare earths are crucial due to usage in most modern technology items ranging from smartphones and laptops to avionics and defence equipment.

State-owned Indian Rare Earths Ltd (IREL) and Toyota group firm Toyota Tsusho Corporation are learnt to have finalised the modalities of jointly harnessing mixed rare earth chloride — the starting commodity used to extract individual rare earths that can be used for both civilian and military, including nuclear, applications.

The pact marks a first step towards commercialising the Indo-Japanese partnership, which aims to counter the overwhelming dominance of China — a country that currently meets about 95 per cent of the world’s rare earth needs. The venture also marks India’s re-entry into the production of rare earths, nearly a decade after it stopped production in 2004 due to lack of market competitiveness. The IREL-Toyota Tsusho partnership is also significant considering that the world’s only non-Chinese producers of rare earths are Australia’s Lynas Corp and US firm Molycorp.

According to a senior Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) official, a crucial pact for fixing the price of mixed rare earth chloride for supply to TTC’s plant in Andhra Pradesh from IREL’s plant at Odisha is nearly ready and is awaiting approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security.

The India-Japan venture is being viewed as crucial by both partners as China, in 2010, had curtailed its export of rare earth minerals, a move that triggered a sharp spike in rare earth prices and created a scare in the high-end electronics and defence industries in India, Japan and the US.

China had imposed export restrictions and raised tariffs in 2010 as it sought higher prices to help cover the environmental costs of production and tried to encourage the growth of domestic industries that use rare earths. Prices shot up as buyers scrambled to secure supplies, with Japan, EU and the US eventually filing a trade complaint.

The World Trade Organisation ruled last year that China’s restrictions were discriminatory and told it to scrap the quotas and export tariffs.

While China is reported to have relaxed its export ban earlier this year, both India and Japan are sticking to their resolve to push through with the partnership on rare earths amid continuing uncertainity over supplies from China, officials said.

It is under the framework of a broad agreement signed between the DAE and Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) of Japan on co-operation in the field of rare earths in Novermber 2012 that both sides have fixed the terms of the proposed JV and finalised comprehensive details of technology sharing.

China monopoly rare earth mineral because other countries don't want to do it. It is very polluting industry (to health and environment) if you don't monitor carefully. Therefore, some people and environment especially in China has to pay heavy price for these.

Rare earth can be found in many places around the world including USA and Australia. Currently Australia's Lynas company is operating one of the biggest (or the biggest) rare earth processing plant in the world, which the plant is located in Pahang State of Malaysia. The mineral is imported from Australia. Without going into the detail (political issue), if Malaysia authority don't monitor how the plant treat the waste, future Malaysian will pay for the price for being dumb.

I also believe USA also restart (or already have) their rare earth industry, which they previously stopped because of the pollution issue.

To say China monopoly the trade of that mineral is bs to me, because other country don't want to do it.

How much u expect malaysia is going to produce the metal to be compared with China?

 

[Keel]

All along I've said it is very stupid for China's own mouth piece to have declared in high profiles every discovery of natural resources. Time and again this stupidity never stops even we are heavily victimised by our own creation of having to tell the world the enormous reserves in rare earth,

We have never learnt the lesson

It is an excellent initiative for the Japanese + Indian cooperation for the rare earth mining
This would lessen our pressure on production and the Japanese can keep their mouth shut against us in this regard

Indians should consider cooperating the same with China also so as to alleviate their trade deficit with us

AFAIK, the Japanese has stocked up huge amount of rare earth reserve from China when the price is dirt cheap and still complaining. WTF!

 

[Aepsilons]

Okay for those who are interested ,the article nihonjin has posted is worth reading. Actually in a sense it shows abt China's dominance in the industry.

Ninhonjin actually one of the reasons in mining rare earths is that it badly affects the health of miners. Right now china is in a way making sacrifice of human live for providing it to the whole world, from what i know. So God bless everyones health.

I am posting some parts of article whose link was given by nihonjin

"Even as Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s overarching message during his recently concluded China tour was that of ramping up the level of engagement between the two countries, a strategic collaboration between India and Japan for the production of rare earths, floated primarily to counter the Chinese hegemony in this sector, is set to break fresh ground. Rare earths are crucial due to usage in most modern technology items ranging from smartphones and laptops to avionics and defence equipment.

State-owned Indian Rare Earths Ltd (IREL) and Toyota group firm Toyota Tsusho Corporation are learnt to have finalised the modalities of jointly harnessing mixed rare earth chloride — the starting commodity used to extract individual rare earths that can be used for both civilian and military, including nuclear, applications.

The pact marks a first step towards commercialising the Indo-Japanese partnership, which aims to counter the overwhelming dominance of China — a country that currently meets about 95 per cent of the world’s rare earth needs. The venture also marks India’s re-entry into the production of rare earths, nearly a decade after it stopped production in 2004 due to lack of market competitiveness. The IREL-Toyota Tsusho partnership is also significant considering that the world’s only non-Chinese producers of rare earths are Australia’s Lynas Corp and US firm Molycorp.

According to a senior Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) official, a crucial pact for fixing the price of mixed rare earth chloride for supply to TTC’s plant in Andhra Pradesh from IREL’s plant at Odisha is nearly ready and is awaiting approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security.

The India-Japan venture is being viewed as crucial by both partners as China, in 2010, had curtailed its export of rare earth minerals, a move that triggered a sharp spike in rare earth prices and created a scare in the high-end electronics and defence industries in India, Japan and the US.

China had imposed export restrictions and raised tariffs in 2010 as it sought higher prices to help cover the environmental costs of production and tried to encourage the growth of domestic industries that use rare earths. Prices shot up as buyers scrambled to secure supplies, with Japan, EU and the US eventually filing a trade complaint.

The World Trade Organisation ruled last year that China’s restrictions were discriminatory and told it to scrap the quotas and export tariffs.

While China is reported to have relaxed its export ban earlier this year, both India and Japan are sticking to their resolve to push through with the partnership on rare earths amid continuing uncertainity over supplies from China, officials said.

It is under the framework of a broad agreement signed between the DAE and Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) of Japan on co-operation in the field of rare earths in Novermber 2012 that both sides have fixed the terms of the proposed JV and finalised comprehensive details of technology sharing.


How much u expect malaysia is going to produce the metal to be compared with China?

Japan is pushing to secure at least 60 percent of its rare earth needs from outside China within four years, as it bolsters efforts to curb its dependence on the world's biggest producer of elements crucial in smart phones, computers and cars.

Its search for supply security has also led to a joint venture in Kazakhstan, recycling rare earths from batteries and motor magnets, and even exploring for rare earths in the Pacific Ocean seabed. China currently produces about 90 percent of the world's rare earths.

Japan, which sources virtually all its rare earths from China, either directly or indirectly, has been trying to find new sources of supply since its neighbor held back shipments in 2010 during a row over disputed islands and then curbed global exports to preserve its own resources.

In fiscal terms, my friend, this is but a normal process. Economists and financial analysts will refer to this as expanding one's portfolio.



Thanks,
@Nihonjin1051

 

[Shamain]

Japan is pushing to secure at least 60 percent of its rare earth needs from outside China within four years, as it bolsters efforts to curb its dependence on the world's biggest producer of elements crucial in smart phones, computers and cars.

Its search for supply security has also led to a joint venture in Kazakhstan, recycling rare earths from batteries and motor magnets, and even exploring for rare earths in the Pacific Ocean seabed. China currently produces about 90 percent of the world's rare earths.

Japan, which sources virtually all its rare earths from China, either directly or indirectly, has been trying to find new sources of supply since its neighbor held back shipments in 2010 during a row over disputed islands and then curbed global exports to preserve its own resources.

In fiscal terms, my friend, this is but a normal process. Economists and financial analysts will refer to this as expanding one's portfolio.



Thanks,
@Nihonjin1051

Yes nice input. Thnx for sharing.

 

[Aepsilons]

Yes nice input. Thnx for sharing.

Sure, buddy ! We all want fair and equal access to resources in the open market. So when China begins to clamp down on exports of rare earth metals, other relevant nations' reaction in expanding sources of rare earth metals is but a natural reaction. This becomes exceedingly important given the unpredictability of geopolitics....

 

[Shamain]

Sure, buddy ! We all want fair and equal access to resources in the open market. So when China begins to clamp down on exports of rare earth metals, other relevant nations' reaction in expanding sources of rare earth metals is but a natural reaction. This becomes exceedingly important given the unpredictability of geopolitics....

Niohnjin bro i still wont blame china,?it is other nations' fault too,y they showed so much reliance on one country. Now if someone is going to enjoy hegemony they are going to set the game rules as well.

Secondly,y i blame other countries is also that when the metal or commodit is of such sensitive nature that it can risk affecting ur defence industry then you (not japan,any country) shud have taken measures in finding alternatives):
You may disagree with me.

 

[Place Of Space]

We don't mind exporting rare metals but the pollution is too horrible. China need to limit the production till improve the rare metal mining technology.

Niohnjin bro i still wont blame china,?it is other nations' fault too,y they showed so much reliance on one country. Now if someone is going to enjoy hegemony they are going to set the game rules as well.

Secondly,y i blame other countries is also that when the metal or commodit is of such sensitive nature that it can risk affecting ur defence industry then you (not japan,any country) shud have taken measures in finding alternatives):
You may disagree with me.

 

[Shamain]

We don't mind exporting rare metals but the pollution is too horrible. China need to limit the production till improve the rare metal mining technology.

View attachment 227199 View attachment 227196 View attachment 227195 View attachment 227193

Yes i second this. Things are happening at the expense of public's health

 

[Place Of Space]

Yes i second this. Things are happening at the expense of public's health

China govt had issued some policy to manage this problem. We still need time to test its effect. Who know? This problem impact CCP govt's validity, if they can't deal the mining pullution problem properly, they can step down.