Nobody can defeat Pakistani nation: Air Chief

[DV RULES]

Bhai.
My negative rating pertains to the idiocy of your idea of hanging the principal of the school/ college where children died..

Please read my post #13 carefully, Saheed principal was innocent and gave her life defending kids.
Security of school was responsibility of concerned area military commander not Principal so please don't mold my words in your interests.

Shaheed Kids & Principal were the victims of PA's general policy....'Deekha jaey ga' or in Punjabi 'Weekhi jai gi'
I don't see any difference when i am analyzing Badaber Attack and APS attack because it was assumed that army school might not be in Terrorists radar because those were SCHOOLS and Badaber Base couldn't be on Terrorists radar because no fighter jet was not stationed there or similar important assets because IT WAS RESIDENTIAL OR TRAINING FACILITY. So who to blame when it was hard reality since 20 years that we are at war! Some one love to take rest a lot in military leadership than designing strategy to protect assets and precious lives from potential targeting.

?!

 

[Tiger Genie]

One of the biggest failure of the PAF is not accounting for how they were sleeping at the wheel while Americans could swoop in, conduct their mission right in the naighbor-hood of Abbotabad military garrison and fly out. While I applaud the Americans for conceiving and accomplishing this daring mission to get osama, I don't believe Pakistan has fired a single airforce officer for this gross negligence and incompetence. Instead they went after the poor civilian doctor!!

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

One of the biggest failure of the PAF is not accounting for how they were sleeping at the wheel while Americans could swoop in, conduct their mission right in the naighbor-hood of Abbotabad military garrison and fly out. While I applaud the Americans for conceiving and accomplishing this daring mission to get osama, I don't believe Pakistan has fired a single airforce officer for this gross negligence and incompetence. Instead they went after the poor civilian doctor!!

U never really know how much Pakistan was involved in that op.....

 

[araz]

Please read my post #13 carefully, Saheed principal was innocent and gave her life defending kids.
Security of school was responsibility of concerned area military commander not Principal so please don't mold my words in your interests.

Shaheed Kids & Principal were the victims of PA's general policy....'Deekha jaey ga' or in Punjabi 'Weekhi jai gi'
I don't see any difference when i am analyzing Badaber Attack and APS attack because it was assumed that army school might not be in Terrorists radar because those were SCHOOLS and Badaber Base couldn't be on Terrorists radar because no fighter jet was not stationed there or similar important assets because IT WAS RESIDENTIAL OR TRAINING FACILITY. So who to blame when it was hard reality since 20 years that we are at war! Some one love to take rest a lot in military leadership than designing strategy to protect assets and precious lives from potential targeting.

?!

I have no vested interest in giving you negative ratings. Read your own words quoted in post 9 which some one has responded to. I dont mould anyones words. Also read your quoted words in post No 5 which someone has responded to. Which planet are you on and what battle do you want to fight with the TTs?
What we have repeatedly pointed out and you have constantly ignored is that No force in the world can either prevent all the attacks nor protect all its bases. USAF Lost platforms on the ground to Taliban attacks in Afghanistan. It suffered a calamitous attack on the twin towers in its own backyard. Perhaps mayor Juliano aught to be hanged or the chief of security at Pentagon aught to resign.
These things happen when you are in a state of war. You can control a siriuation to some extent in a war but never prevent it. One of the biggest flaws in your reasoning is the lack of any proof to support your supposition that there was laxity or complacency. When you start thinking out of your rear end rather than your head you stop analysing the situation and making silly statements like this or that person must be hanged or in your english resigned (whatever the hell that means).
Look at your own temerity in that you have formulated a post based on 2 of my sentances while omitting the rest of my post explaining what I was trying to explain(the pot calling the kettle black)? This gives me the impression that you either have an axe to grind against the forces,or you like your opinions so much that you have stopped listening to other opinions which present a counter argument. Both of these are a sign of intellectual dishonesty and I have no patience to deal with you and your rants.
If you have an argument then bring it on and provided you are reasonably coharent and respond to the whole of other peoples posts rather than cherry picking and moulding posts to your advantage and expecting people to be enamoured with your bullish behaviour then we can talk otherwise if you cannot be dealt with reasonable means you will be put out to rest in greener pastures.
A
PS:Iam a life long civilian. I have no relative in the armed forces and Iam not on the payroll of the forces. I live outside of Pakistan but fear for my family and loved ones in Pakistan. I think independantly and will call a situation for what it is. Those of you who have been around for as long as I have will varify that my basic principles of beliefs have not wavered or been influenced by any suggestions from anyone. So I have now laid down my cards on the table for you and everyone else to see. Why dont you do the same and have a thoughtful discussion rather than a hotheaded unreasonable one.

 

[Asli Lahori1]

Show me a report where blame can be assigned without any doubt and I will be the first one to say yes. But just because it is hunting season and you dont see any game it is not fair to shoot your neighbour or his dog for the heck of it. This is the same mentality that has beset this forum. The people do not understand the basis of their arguments but exercise their right to wag their tongue.This is not something I will stand upto.
A

Aren't you waging your tongue on every one who is demanding accountability from Armed Forces? Definitely a game out there called Military of Pakistan who are getting away from crime of sleeping on the job.

 

[araz]

That's not idiocy but you think like that and you have right to say whatever you want. If we used to bring these phrasal words for any politician why not for army? These are people used to worship army but i count them just like other ministries. No emotional affiliation just like no affiliation with current politicians. They are all same to me, many work in favour of Pakistan and many to sell it.

Duties are duties applied same on politicians and military man under their constitutional designation.
Ok, ACM is innocent until proven guilty, i didn't observe or any report over the conduct of court marshal or equivalent steps taken against the responsible of security breach of the base of any strategic installation. But my words are losing their credibility when i am looking at political and military system not to punish their "Hum Piyalas" not important how many casualties, lose of assets has been occurred.

I already has answered you over Air Base and surrounding settlements and involved issues in other thread.

We are living in 21st centuray not in 19th, every educated person now has idea and information what tasked are in front of Armed forces but that couldn't be excuse to hide loop holes within duties.

it means you are admitting this fact that Air Force has no capability to defend their bases and now come to Thread title and ACM's loud words! Come On.....Isn't a traditional ceremonial Lolly-pop?
That's not government task to form specialized force for the defense of Air bases, this is the responsibility of JCOSC & ACM to plan-finance-execution. There is no special budget is needed when it could be summed in fiscal budget requirement of Ministry of defense. Just like SPD raised special force to defend strategic assets. And i don't think that at any time state refused any military demand.

So lets be more fair to discussion then military phobic jingoism toward criticizer.
I have no intentions to hurt you again but fair play shouldn't be discouraged.

I somehow missed this post of yours so apolgies. Bhai we all accept that in Pakistan things in many areas are not ideal. If you look at encroachments and buildings in viscinity of air bases this is clearly not an ideal situation. You are right in assuming that. However to consider this a fault of someone is not fair. Our population has trebled in the last 40yrs. It is not easy to reassign areas for air bases as large area is required and the input of money is huge in shifting the bases. The only thing you can now do is build high walls over the perimeter but again due to the size of the installations the financial outlays for doing so are huge and the Government is reluctant to issue the funds. Unfortunately it has taken two huge losses for people to wake up and start doing something about it. However even instituting these changes will take time. Even after all the changes are instituted the instances maybe reduced but will not be eliminated entirely. Do you remember the bombing of the buses. Things like that can never be avoided. In a security setup you establish priority over what is more important and protect that and have a mobile force to protect an overall area. This is now called the Rapid response unit. As admitted earlier you can never cover each and every installation as it is cost prohibitive. The aim of the enemy is to attack these softer targets forcing you to loosen the Security controls over the more valuable ones so that if the opportunity arises they could be attacked.
These attacks are very effective as they tend to demoralise people and give them a feeling of not being safe. But can they be prevented entirely. No unfortunately. As to your reasoning behind assigning blame my only concern is that as long as it is based on facts then Iam all for it. The problem occurs when we assign blame without any proof and that is libel. So by all means when you think a wrong has been done then raise the issue but you cant recommend that XYZor ABC be hanged or his service terminated without any evidence of his culpability.

Aren't you waging your tongue on every one who is demanding accountability from Armed Forces? Definitely a game out there called Military of Pakistan who are getting away from crime of sleeping on the job.

Prove it Son. The proof is in the pudding as they say. You think it is as simple as that saying someone was sleeping on their job and you have no proof. And by the way it is not wagging of someone,s tongue when you are asking for proof. You have assigned blame prove it or quit it.
A

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Posters should check the age of the person they are addressing before they call them SON----.

Aren't you waging your tongue on every one who is demanding accountability from Armed Forces? Definitely a game out there called Military of Pakistan who are getting away from crime of sleeping on the job.

Hi,

Welcome to the forum---. The poster is actually doing it out of habit----he is a known apologist of the air force. Some people are happy and excited when they have reached the lowest plateau of qualifications and they call it a victory---just like the chief minister of Sindh----.

Air base security is basically a drama now----

 

[Reverse Thinker]

No.1 stands for army. No.2 stands for Navy, No.3 stands for PAF this time as we are seeing too much attacks on PAF bases and PAF lossess much more, Army they defended well their assets after GHQ attack, Navy also secured itself from attacks after Mehran Base Attack, PAF continusely lossess too much... In 1965 PAF was at No.1 with agressive strategies in its defence, its procurement, even they were handling PIA verywell that time but now PIA, Civil Aviation, and Even PAF Rapdily Depleating in terms of assets, defence strategies, too much time taking for procurements, not much investment in any other futuristic fighters instead concenterating only on one option of JFs for future, while our enemy already on track of 3, 4 different fighter projects and quick procurement to replace aging fleet, and too much spending on space tech to keep watch on each and every activity inside Pakistan and even now enemy sending its attacker terrorests with advance satelite using tech equipments during planed attacks to make 100 % result oriented attack on any Pakistan side assets but our policy makers im confused why they don't arrange advance tech weapons & security measures to protect assests to make them 100% secured and track them in advance any threat approaching towards the airbases, stations,checkposts, etc. every attack terrorests they find gaps in our security arrangement why? becuse they are being guided through using satelite technologies from enemy side through satelite cellphones and other equipments and they have been instructed where is the defender position during attack.

 

[MastanKhan]

No.1 stands for army. No.2 stands for Navy, No.3 stands for PAF this time as we are seeing too much attacks on PAF bases and PAF lossess much more, Army they defended well their assets after GHQ attack, Navy also secured itself from attacks after Mehran Base Attack, PAF continusely lossess too much... In 1965 PAF was at No.1 with agressive strategies in its defence, its procurement, even they were handling PIA verywell that time but now PIA, Civil Aviation, and Even PAF Rapdily Depleating in terms of assets, defence strategies, too much time taking for procurements, not much investment in any other futuristic fighters instead concenterating only on one option of JFs for future, while our enemy already on track of 3, 4 different fighter projects and quick procurement to replace aging fleet, and too much spending on space tech to keep watch on each and every activity inside Pakistan and even now enemy sending its attacker terrorests with advance satelite using tech equipments during planed attacks to make 100 % result oriented attack on any Pakistan side assets but our policy makers im confused why they don't arrange advance tech weapons & security measures to protect assests to make them 100% secured and track them in advance any threat approaching towards the airbases, stations,checkposts, etc. every attack terrorests they find gaps in our security arrangement why? becuse they are being guided through using satelite technologies from enemy side through satelite cellphones and other equipments and they have been instructed where is the defender position during attack.

Hi,

It is the arrogant mentality of the PAF that creates the problem.

Why did the Air Marshall had to show off that he went on a strike mission-----? He wanted to strut around----the terrorists paid him back with interest---and now they are strutting around----.


I did not want to say it before---but Badaber incidence is a pay back for that air strike the air marshal took----. The world has changed----these things looked good 7 years ago---that an air marshall is leading a strike force----. Things have changed over 3/4 of a century ago----.

Generals ---- what their job is----to give direction and directives---to designate authority---his days of jumping in the cockpit were long over----.

He cannot defend his base and he is talking about defending the country----if the base is very large---the country is larger----much larger----if he cannot protect a base---how can they protect a country.

 

[Asli Lahori1]

Hi,

It the arrogant mentality of the PAF that creates the problem.

Why did the Air Marshall had to show off that he went on a strike mission-----? He wanted to strut around----the terrorists paid him back with interest---and now they are strutting around----.


I did not want to say it before---but Badaber incidence is a pay back for that air strike the air marshal took----. The world has changed----these things looked good 7 years ago---that an air marshall is leading a strike force----. Things have changed over 3/4 of a century ago----.

Generals ---- what their job is----to give direction and directives---to designate authority---his days of jumping in the cockpit were long over----.

He cannot defend his base and he is talking about defending the country----if the base is very large---the country is larger----much larger----if he cannot protect a base---how can they protect a country.

Since 1971 PAF has totally gone down the drain. Whether its defending the country or acquisition of new fighters, their professional acumen is hitting rock bottom. Black mark after black mark. Abbotabad, Kamra BadBeer. In 90s their inability to acquire M2k or SU 27. Their decision to go with JF-17 doesn't make sense at all to me. Total waste of 5 or 6 billion dollars. Idea wasn't bad but the platform chosen has no chance in a real war situation. They should have gone with a twin engine long range fighter from the scratch. Sometimes it looks to me that PAF went with JF-17 just to fight in FATA or North Waziristan . Also it appears PAF is afraid of handling new advance technologies.

 

[MastanKhan]

Since 1971 PAF has totally gone down the drain. Whether its defending the country or acquisition of new fighters, their professional acumen is hitting rock bottom. Black mark after black mark. Abbotabad, Kamra BadBeer. In 90s their inability to acquire M2k or SU 27. Their decision to go with JF-17 doesn't make sense at all to me. Total waste of 5 or 6 billion dollars. Idea wasn't bad but the platform chosen has no chance in a real war situation. They should have gone with a twin engine long range fighter from the scratch. Sometimes it looks to me that PAF went with JF-17 just to fight in FATA or North Waziristan . Also it appears PAF is afraid of handling new advance technologies.

Hi,

Thank you for your comments---. A lot of people don't remember that after 9/11 ---that it was the PAF who came up with an analysis that there was not going to be any confrontation with india----and so spending a large amount of money on a potent aircraft was a waste---that is why they Lollygagged all thru 2002--2005 and later on----.

When the J10 came out and Mush showed the Chinese the picture that is the plane he wanted----the production of JF 17 should have been stopped and the focus should have been switched onto the J10 project---. The Chinese were willing to sell.

But the egos of the PAF---like always---came first---and they said no---even though Mush had signed for 36 of them---when they became available.

 

[CHI RULES]

What does leader mean?
He is fighter pilot, that;s his job and if he did something as per his profession then there is nothing special, he is paid for it, he must be resigned over its inability to defend PAF assets which is also in his job description.

The statement clearly shows ur lack of knowledge which is prevailing on this forum. It is not the duty of chief as per prevailing norms to go and attack terrorists. He is there finalize strategies and for their effective implementation. He is paid for same thing. By religious point of view and as per our Islamic ideology he is performing sorties against terrorists just to motivate PAF pilots. Something extra he is performing. Your mail showing only hatered for PAF nothingg more or less.

In gorilla warfare defending forces always face heavy damages just like NATO in Afgh untill and unless u keep mercenaries or paid soldiers like strategy of US forces in Afgh..

Instead of our united stance we are divided just like whole Muslim world

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

View attachment 259197
PESHAWAR: Chief of the Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force (PAF), Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman said on Monday nobody can defeat the courage and valour of Pakistani nation.

"Our spirit is the same and our response would also be the same. No one can match our spirits and it should be crystal clear to everyone that this is the nation nobody can defeat," he said addressing PAF personnel during his visit to PAF Camp Badaber.

The Air Chief met with the PAF personnel and offered Fateha for the martyrs of Badaber incident and lauded the valiant response
of the airmen who fought bravely without budging an inch from their place of duty during the recent terrorist attack on Badaber Camp, said a press release issued by PAF.

"I am immensely proud that no one hesitated for a second to fight against the assailants," the Air Chief said. "They completed this operation with sound professionalism and unwavering commitment".

He also lauded the coordinated effort among PAF, Pakistan Army and the law enforcement agencies which successfully thwarted the dastardly carried out attack.

"They displayed an example of bravery, faith, conviction and love for the country," he said.

While talking about the mindset of these terrorists he said these young minds were brain washed and used as a tool by the
enemy to harm the state of Pakistan and this we would never let happen.

He reiterated his resolve to fight against the menace of terrorism and said each one of our officer and airman would be
ready to sacrifice his life for the country.

"Our adversaries should no doubt that we would never let them succeed in their nefarious designs and PAF would do whatever is"

Nobody can defeat Pakistani nation: Air Chief | SAMAA TV

He is right with the help of Allah, no nation can defeat us as people. If he is talking about PAF, Army, then he needs to remember Salala where 22 Soldiers were Murdered and the pathetic low-lives could not do anything and not to forget daily drone attacks. Another eye opener is Abbattabad where an enemy attacked us without us knowing. Where does all the money go? Golf courses, plots of land, houses, generous pensions and yet we Pakistani put up with poverty so our country can be strong militarily.

 

[tarrar]

Well what corrupt politicians are doing against Pakistan is nothing less than what foreign enemies of Pakistan want to do against Pakistan.

 

[araz]

Hi,

Thank you for your comments---. A lot of people don't remember that after 9/11 ---that it was the PAF who came up with an analysis that there was not going to be any confrontation with india----and so spending a large amount of money on a potent aircraft was a waste---that is why they Lollygagged all thru 2002--2005 and later on----.

When the J10 came out and Mush showed the Chinese the picture that is the plane he wanted----the production of JF 17 should have been stopped and the focus should have been switched onto the J10 project---. The Chinese were willing to sell.

But the egos of the PAF---like always---came first---and they said no---even though Mush had signed for 36 of them---when they became available.

MK
A lot of us are here who have seen 9/11 evolving and the change in the US attitude towards Pakistan. Which PAF analysis are you talking about? .IF YOU HAVE THIS ANALYSIS THEN PRODUCE IT or provide a reference. What you have conveniently forgotten is GWB statement on record having said that the US is currently not happy to provide PAF with more F16s something that changed later. PAF looked at multiple platforms and although it liked the rafale found it to be unmanageable cost wise.They decided to make a pitch for the Gripen but were politely refused. This is all on record.
Your second suggestion of cancelling JFT when the 4th prototype had already flown and you had already sunk 250million$ into the project, to then disband the project is hilarious to say the least. JFT is a successful product fit for the purpose which PAF designed it for and has allowed PAF a foot in the aviation industry. You want to throw all of that out of the window for a plane in which you wont have any input , wont learn anything from and which will not give you any significant advantage over what you have to hand. Plus count the risk element of the newer platform. Of course the Chinese will always be willing to sell. They are there to make money arent they? I am just amazed that a senior member can come up with such a suggestion. But then this is a web based forum!!!!!!
THE THIRD SENTENCE IS ENTIRELY CONJECTURE and not even worthy of a resonse.