No Where to Run For China, Part 1

[Genesis]

People don't worry about us to swallowing up their territory. They just don't like to see us when they got something cooking.

We are the good guys. Not just today, but in history. No super power in the world has ever behaved as well as the U.S. Everyone used their military might to take wealth from others, we've provided billions in aid to anyone and everyone. Think of our predecessors and how they treated the world in their heyday. Now compare that to how we act. Can you seriously say that Britain, Rome, the Mongols or anyone for that matter treated the world as well as the U.S.? I'm not talking about rich Asian empires that just stayed within their territories. I'm talking genuine world powers that could take the fight to the enemy.

That is your opinion.

That's where the world of today differs from the past. You don't get to forcibly take over Taiwan against their will. Sorry.

We won't use force, a broken Taiwan is worse than not having Taiwan. Either way, it's not up to you.

Each of those super carriers has 80-90 fighter aircraft on it. Having 7 of them plus the ones stationed in nearby bases may not be enough for a full scale ground invasion of China. However, it is enough to deter China from acting against its neighbors. "Peace through superior firepower" that's our motto.

I know how many fighters are on there and how many more you have in Asia.

By PPP or nominal? Because if you're thinking nominal, that means you'd have to quadruple your economy in 20 years, which is doable when you're just starting out but extremely hard when it's already 10 trillion dollars and it will get harder once the PPP and nominal line up (which it should in the next 5 years). It would be interesting to watch. Good luck

We maybe 10 trillion, but like you said only 7500 in per capita.

 

[ljxjcz]

We are so lucky to live in a world full of nuclear weapons, otherwise this precarious rivalry balance has no chance to survive.

 

[DrawingDead]

Here's the map of your offshore territories. A few was RIGHT next to South America states. Do you need me to provide territories of other country which was right in the EEZ of another country?

I was wondering why you are being so hypocrite in playing the UNCLOS and proximity card only when it favor you? What exactly is the reason for applying such vast and hilarious viewpoint?

Those are not very good examples because we also controlled Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic etc. So really we're not in their EEZ. They are in ours .

I'm not being a hypocrite at all. If I was, I'd demand that China give up Tibet and Xinjiang. Hypocrisy is whining about the century of humiliation and how everybody stole Chinese land but having no problem trying to grab up anything you can find.

That is your opinion.

.

No, everything else is my opinion. That is a irrefutable fact.

We won't use force, a broken Taiwan is worse than not having Taiwan. Either way, it's not up to you.

It's not your decision. The people who live there DON'T want to join China right now. You don't get to make that choice for them. This isn't the 17th or 18th century when you could commit genocide for a piece of land.

I know how many fighters are on there and how many more you have in Asia.

Ok

We maybe 10 trillion, but like you said only 7500 in per capita.

I don't want to be a naysayer but wait till the PPP and Nominal merge. Its tough sledding after that.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

The word you're looking for is "reins" not "reigns"

There is no "trap". There is, however, a genuine concern that you're unnecessarily rocking the boat. In this day and age when people aren't hopping on boats and going off to colonize far off lands "in the name of the Crown", you're trying to occupy little reefs in other countries' EEZ.

The US had already taken over as the world's largest economy after the FIRST world war and had supported Britain in its efforts during WW I and II. It wasn't like they allowed us or handed us the reins to anything. We were just heading in opposite directions.

States don't hand over the reins to other states. You take over because you are the most influential nation in the world. The Sino-American rivalry is unavoidable because these are the 2 of the largest economies in the world. However, what is very avoidable, is a military rivalry. But if the posters on PDF are anything to go by, China believes that might is right and that the Chinese are entitled to everything the any Chinese saw, touched or walked by. That really doesn't work for anyone else in today's world. The world has moved on in the century since Qing empire collapsed. You're not the Qings. You don't get to turn back the clock and claim everything that may or may not have been controlled by some empire at some point in history.

There is one more thing I'd like to point out. China is still less than 2/3 the economy with 4 times the population. Our GDP per capita is 7 times that of China. China is still working on getting its first Aircraft carrier into service, China is still working on its first stealth fighter. I'm sure I don't need to point out where we are with the same things. So maybe it would be a good idea to match us in at least a couple of these categories before worrying about "taking over the reins of the world" from us?

Lets not forget China is the world's largest economy by PPP and is also the world's largest trading nation, industrial nation and is leading the global economic growth. That last one has been the case since about 2007.

The only claim that the US has as the world's largest economy is the fact that the US has the world's largest GDP by nominal exchange rate. But that claim is suspicious because its based on a overvalued USD. And about 70% of GDP is consumption ie people going into shops buying stuffs.

The biggest threat to US pre-eminence in the world today doesn't come from China, Russia, ISIS or Iran. But it comes from the fact that the US is unable to handle its domestic problems. Economic, environmental and social pressures are building up inside the US and no one from the top to the bottom from the left to the right has any solutions for it. More than that the people at the top in America wouldn't even recognise the problems that the US have. And that will be America's undoing. Shadow boxing with China in the SCS is not going to resolve America's domestic problems. Untill and unless the US is able to deal with its problems domestically it will have to hand over the "reins" abroad.

 

[DrawingDead]

Lets not forget China is the world's largest economy by PPP and is also the world's largest trading nation, industrial nation and is leading the global economic growth. That last one has been the case since about 2007.

The only claim that the US has as the world's largest economy is the fact that the US has the world's largest GDP by nominal exchange rate. But that claim is suspicious because its based on a overvalued USD. And about 70% of GDP is consumption ie people going into shops buying stuffs.

The biggest threat to US pre-eminence in the world today doesn't come from China, Russia, ISIS or Iran. But it comes from the fact that the US is unable to handle its domestic problems. Economic, environmental and social pressures are building up inside the US and no one from the top to the bottom from the left to the right has any solutions for it. More than that the people at the top in America wouldn't even recognise the problems that the US have. And that will be America's undoing. Shadow boxing with China in the SCS is not going to resolve America's domestic problems. Untill and unless the US is able to deal with its problems domestically it will have to hand over the "reins" abroad.

One of these days, you should tell us more about our problems and the solutions. Living here in the US, we might be too close to really recognize the issues. What we really need is the perspective of someone who's knowledge of the US is based exclusively on CCP propaganda and online forums

 

[xunzi]

Those are not very good examples because we also controlled Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic etc. So really we're not in their EEZ. They are in ours .

I'm not being a hypocrite at all. If I was, I'd demand that China give up Tibet and Xinjiang. Hypocrisy is whining about the century of humiliation and how everybody stole Chinese land but having no problem trying to grab up anything you can find.

Did you try to be a little too funny? Cuba is controlled by you so you get to occupy territories deep inside their EEZ? LOL

Now you are being a hypocrite. Why should we give up Tibet and Xinjiang when you didn't give up California, New Mexico, and Texas? LOL It makes no sense whatsoever for us to be on the bad end while you get to enjoy united states.

Grabbing territories mean you took another land from another country without any historic claim. We had a claim to those territories that we found before that states even existed as a country. Also for your information, your little buddy Vietnamese also occupy territories inside Philippine EEZ, so when are you going to preach them "righteous"?

 

[TaiShang]

U.S. has been swimming in South China Sea all by themselves for the last 70 years and enjoying the exclusive bullying right in the region, now that China is making a comeback to South China Sea the U.S. definitely is gonna make some noise to defend their exclusive bullying rights.

They are not unpredictable.

One of these days they can come and lecture us on how to manage our own sovereign lands.

 

[DrawingDead]

Did you try to be a little too funny? Cuba is controlled by you so you get to occupy territories deep inside their EEZ? LOL

Now you are being a hypocrite. Why should we give up Tibet and Xinjiang when you didn't give up California, New Mexico, and Texas? LOL It makes no sense whatsoever for us to be on the bad end while you get to enjoy united states.

Grabbing territories mean you took another land from another country without any historic claim. We had a claim to those territories that we found before that states even existed as a country. Also for your information, your little buddy Vietnamese also occupy territories inside Philippine EEZ, so when are you going to preach them "righteous"?

We defeated Spain and took Cuba, Puerto Rico and Guam from them. Cuba went on to become its own country and we kept the other 2. The country of Cuba came into being AFTER we already had our territories. So in reality, they are in our EEZ, not the other way around.

Read the post again, I wrote "if I was (a hypocrite), I'd demand China give up Tibet and Xinjiang". Like I told you at the beginning, let's not rehash the sins of our fathers. It's not a contest you're going to win.

Historic claim is BS in this day and age. You're not the Qing empire. You're the People's Republic of China. You don't just automatically get everything they ever claimed. You are all parties to UNCLOS. Quit dicking around, go into arbitration and settle it once and for all through legal means. If you don't want to do that, get together with them and make a deal where you all split the profits from any discovery in the SCS. Doing what you're doing doesn't help your sovereignty. All it does is makes your neighbors nervous which will result in them inviting us to come hangout in your backyard and crowd you and that sovereignty you're looking for will evaporate. Despite all your false bravado, you don't want us breathing down your neck, nobody does.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

You should call our bluff. I mean how long do you want to be known as the people that got their asses handed to them by a tiny island from across the sea or the nation that doesn't have the courage to fight an equal face to face or the nation who's greatest ability is to make cheap knockoffs or the nation who's name is synonymous with substandard products and intellectual property theft. It is time for China to stand up and be counted. Just make sure you don't fail though. Remember what the Japanese empire did to you the last time you shot your mouth off? Hopefully it doesn't happen again. I'd hate to see the mighty Chinese dragon get punked out one more time and end up as Japan's biatch again.

Wow, that was low, even for you.

 

[DrawingDead]

Wow, that was low, even for you.

Yeah I know. It was kind of a shitty thing to say. Shouldn't have responded to that J20dragon guy. Should have let it go.

 

[TaiShang]

It is symptomatic of most Western nations' mass ignorance in their populace, that simple facts which any thinking individual in less media-controlled nations should know, requires the greater intellect of the western nations to grasp. Throughout western history, from the great Christian Church onward, it is this mass control of the people's minds that has led to endless war in western political history. Over the last two hundred years they have brought their war-mongering miseries to Asia, Latin America, Africa and then to the Middle-East. It is now up to the Chinese which civilization have thrived for 5000 years to stop, once and for all, this western sickness. It may mean the end of the world as we know it but perhaps this is how this western disease could be cured forever.

 

[Genesis]

No, everything else is my opinion. That is a irrefutable fact.

You can actually PROVE what is and isn't good, a purely subjective topic? I don't think fact means what you think it means.

It's not your decision. The people who live there DON'T want to join China right now. You don't get to make that choice for them. This isn't the 17th or 18th century when you could commit genocide for a piece of land.

Neither did the Confeds, didn't stop you guys. But we won't commit genocide, and you know it. As I said, we want Taiwan as a functional province, not a basket case waiting for handouts.

It isn't whether we get to make that choice, we'll make sure we do.

Taiwan will join, whether they do it today or tomorrow makes little difference to us. Especially considering we can't use them effectively as a piece quite yet. Why buy a car when you can't drive it yet. We'll go to driving school first.

I don't want to be a naysayer but wait till the PPP and Nominal merge. Its tough sledding after that.

My confidence doesn't come from no where. But this isn't the place to discuss this, we'll just leave it at the chances of China doing what I said we will isn't 0.

Historic claim is BS in this day and age. You're not the Qing empire. You're the People's Republic of China. You don't just automatically get everything they ever claimed. You are all parties to UNCLOS. Quit dicking around, go into arbitration and settle it once and for all through legal means. If you don't want to do that, get together with them and make a deal where you all split the profits from any discovery in the SCS. Doing what you're doing doesn't help your sovereignty. All it does is makes your neighbors nervous which will result in them inviting us to come hangout in your backyard and crowd you and that sovereignty you're looking for will evaporate. Despite all your false bravado, you don't want us breathing down your neck, nobody does.

First did you not get why PRC is the successor to the Qing government when I made that post?

More importantly, would America leave us alone if we didn't do anything in the SCS? Which is the entire point of the thread.

Were American effort on AIIB, one road one belt, weapons sanctions, economic trade pacts that exclude China, refusing to give us more voting rights, despite our growth and contributions, all because of the South China Sea situation.

Was the quote that China shouldn't be allowed to make the rules of trade(dispute being the biggest trading nation) and US should, a direct result of South China Sea.

We are always open to talks, this is never a secret, but Philippines wants a united response, despite the fact, most of ASEAN aren't claimants, or have competing claims against each other.

I wonder where they got that idea, the country not under a master's thumb actually is conducting talks, and sending top level military and political leadership to China to conduct talks. The progress leaves some to be desired, but it's a start.


China doesn't need resources, look it up, we got more oil and gas than you think we do, on our mainland. As to American involvement, you be here either way, why not make ourselves comfortable, since you are going to be here for a while.

 

[xunzi]

We defeated Spain and took Cuba, Puerto Rico and Guam from them. Cuba went on to become its own country and we kept the other 2. The country of Cuba came into being AFTER we already had our territories. So in reality, they are in our EEZ, not the other way around.

Read the post again, I wrote "if I was (a hypocrite), I'd demand China give up Tibet and Xinjiang". Like I told you at the beginning, let's not rehash the sins of our fathers. It's not a contest you're going to win.

Historic claim is BS in this day and age. You're not the Qing empire. You're the People's Republic of China. You don't just automatically get everything they ever claimed. You are all parties to UNCLOS. Quit dicking around, go into arbitration and settle it once and for all through legal means. If you don't want to do that, get together with them and make a deal where you all split the profits from any discovery in the SCS. Doing what you're doing doesn't help your sovereignty. All it does is makes your neighbors nervous which will result in them inviting us to come hangout in your backyard and crowd you and that sovereignty you're looking for will evaporate. Despite all your false bravado, you don't want us breathing down your neck, nobody does.

So you admit you are no different from any imperialist who enslave local native people? LOL

Why don't you ratify UNCLOS first before you talk about us going into arbitration?