No UAE decision on Typhoon, Rafale

[shree835]

The United Arab Emirates (UAE) has yet to choose a supplier for its next fighter jets, a deal closely contested by Britain and France, a Gulf source familiar with the arms market said on Sunday after a visit by British Prime Minister David Cameron.

French firm Dassault’s Rafale jets and the BAE Systems -backed Eurofighter Typhoon are in a tight race to win the deal for at least 60 new aircraft to replace the UAE’s Mirage fleet.

The Gulf source said Cameron’s visit to the Dubai Air Show had evidently raised expectations in the British media about a possible decision in Britain’s favour.

But any decision, whichever way it went, lay in the future.

“Cameron is pushing. It’s normal. But others are pushing too,” the source said.

“There are other bidders. It’s a process.”

Boeing is also in contention with its F-15 combat aircraft, the source said.

The Eurofighter, built by BAE, EADS and Italy’s Finmeccanica, is being marketed in the Gulf region by BAE, which is finalising and chasing deals in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain.

“I don’t want to overestimate but I think we are making progress. We are part of a BAE-led team and are very keen to support the campaign,” said Tom Enders, the chief executive of EADS.

British Defence Secretary Philip Hammond, when asked about prospects for a Eurofighter Typhoon deal, said:

“The prime minister had a very good visit yesterday and we are in discussions with our UAE colleagues, and the companies are here, and everything is rolling forward so we will see what happens.

“We have a multi-stranded defence and security relationship with the UAE which is about much more than Typhoon. Typhoon is an important part but there are many other parts to this relationship that we are building and strengthening all the time.”

The UAE had been expected to finalise an agreement for the Rafale last year, but talks faltered following visits by Cameron and after the UAE said the terms were unworkable and uncompetitive.

Industry sources familiar with the Eurofighter had said they were hopeful for a step towards the 6 billion pound ($9.6 billion) deal at the air show, such as the signing of a memorandum of understanding or contract. 
No UAE decision on Typhoon, Rafale: Report - The Economic Times

 

[Tanja]

Against people or against climate change: Time to Choose?

• Keep calm and save the Earth!!

FNOTW: Against people or against climate change: Time to Choose?

 

[livingdead]

Against people or against climate change: Time to Choose?

• 
  
  
  • Keep calm and save the Earth!!

FNOTW: Against people or against climate change: Time to Choose?

wrong thread mate

 

[Luftwaffe]

@sancho, calling you to this Thread don't want to derail J-10 Thread.

That's a PS
No they are not, they were rejected already and US fighters can't replace the M2K, because they can't use the Black Shaheen cruise missile, which is a crucial capability for the UAE. They just increased the numbers of F16s, while they keep upgrading the M2Ks with more capabilities nearly every year, which shows that there is neither a need for a fast replacement, nor even would they want it, UNLESS the replacement offers similar advantages and Rafale does that. Besides that France is the only country that can buy back the M2Ks, thanks to EUM.

I will try to reply with logic agree to disagree, lastly I am not saying Rafale is out if you read my posts I said along with Dassault, Boeing with 2 of its Aircrafts are contenders namely F-15 and F-18E/F.

* 68 2000-9 Fleet
* 600 Black Shaheen cruise missiles.

* 104 F-16 Desert Falcons currently + 25 ordered included is future orders
* 300 AGM-84H SLAM-ER cruise missiles already ordered [used for both land/sea based Targets, more can be ordered].

Like I told you Mirages won't be handed over in replacement of Rafale nor are U.A.E. AF retiring them soon or even selling it to third party. France won't accept returns of Mirages that is a big obsticle in the deal along with French refusal to develop a more power Engine for Rafale and wants U.A.E to milk the Engine development program which is pretty expensive. These Mirages are at the top of their capabilities already and there is not much room except for software to add/integrate list of weapons that can be exported by west and already done it was quite sensitive and never publicly released about those upgrades. Still 50 Mirages with 600 ALCMs are sufficient a single squadron phase out would not be a problem since F-16 desert falcons are coming.

If you are referring to that U.A.E AF ordered 600 black shaheen ALCM ordered therefore which you think it makes sense regarding Rafale well that is a bad logic and bad deal on part of U.A.E AF to order large numbers for an aircraft that eventually would be long gone by early 2020s but they were not aware how fast technology and new aircrafts would come to scene those black shaheens were ordered in 1997 today it is 2013 infact a few days away from 2014 16 years have gone by. But US did not offer integration of black shaheen due to restrictions 300km and above but it can change and I believe the order for Boeing product would be subject to integration of array of EU weapons as well. Negotiations are underway with both Dassault and Boeing from French side the problem is Engine development and certain TOT and from Boeing side it is weapons/and integration both US/EU origin and certain TOT.

UK is pretty much into buy backs and providing various other equipment/weapons systems it would not be a surprised move if many of black shaheen are returned for next gen missiles to be integrated with F-16s and if and only IF Boeing's product is selected.

I am least interested in PAF getting anything else except the focus should be Thunders and additional F-16s.

Clarify the bold sentence of yours' how are they rejected provide link and credible source. If you have read my post I said "perhaps" I did not say definite, never the less F-16s are confirmed coming they are new where are many of mirages despite upgrades are 20-23 years old airframes. MBDA black shaheen known as storm shadow is an excellent ALCM never the less it would come down to France and US for Engines and US to allow weapons integration and both sides offering certain TOT.

 

[Kompromat]

UAE go for the F-15SA/SE, standard or the Typhoons.

 

[Luftwaffe]

UAE go for the F-15SA/SE, standard or the Typhoons.

I Think Typhoons are out of the race.

Problem with US is not letting U.A.E AF integrate black shaheen ALCM due to the range it is prohibited which I think is ridiculous on part of US gaining getting a contract for 4 squadrons. Other than that everything is good to go. With France they refuse better Engine development.

So it is a tough contendership though.

 

[sancho]

I said along with Dassault, Boeing with 2 of its Aircrafts are contenders namely F-15 and F-18E/F.

Which is not correct, the UAE in fact never had a competition at all! The French approached them to early replace the M2K-9s (which btw won't need to be replaced anytime soon, since even the oldest one have not even passed half of their life) and offered a buy back option, or to find a customer for them. That's the first and most crucial point where you are mistaken, since that is the key to understand why the UAE has no hurry to order a new fighter and why they only really evaluated the Rafale.

They did asked for informations on Boeing fighters and till recently also the EF, but only to put more pressure on Dassault mainly (since unlike the French government), they are the reason the deal is still not done yet.

AGM-84H SLAM-ER cruise missiles already ordered [used for both land/sea based Targets, more can be ordered].

SLAM-ER is no cruise missile, it's an anti ship missile with added land attack capability, but even if they don't solve the problem that I mentioned anout the Black Shaheen, since the UAE invested in the customization and they can't be integrated into the US fighters without approval, which is why only the Rafale or the EF would had been choice to re-use them. Same goes btw for the Al-Tariq bomb kit that the UAE now integrate to the M2K-9 and definitely would integrate to the Rafale as well, while they had to by US bomb kits for the F16s.
Same reason why the Saudis used Tornados with Storm Shadow next to F15s for years and now want to add the Storm Shadows to the EF.

You are also mistaken if you think the UAE is really complaining about technical issues, they only want more of all, just like they added more engine power, more radar range and a better EW to the F16 (same things they want for the Rafale too), the real aim however are not even defence related at all. They want more industrial and economical benefits from the French, that's why their first demands were more landing rights for their airlines in France, which Sarkozy reportedly waved through, although Air France complained about it. Similarly, the EF consortium offered a partnership and production of parts in the UAE, besides the fact that they could had customized the EF with AESA, CFTs, TVC... of they wanted. Personally I even say that this EF offer was better for the UAE, industrially as well as operationally, since the EF/F16 combo would had been the better hi lo mix. But once again, it shows that this deal has less to do with a fighter replacement, or operational requirements of the Air Force, rather then with increased political and strategic needs of the UAE with France.

Qatar on the other side has made a real competition, they have evaluated different fighters and asked for different offers from European and US vendors. Their M2Ks just reached half their life, so would have some time left as well, but recent reports hint on a similar European / US fighter combo for the future, like the Saudis and UAE have. So lets wait and see what happens there, the UAE however as said, will either keep the M2Ks for far longer, or will replace them with Rafale around 2018.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Did you know Boeing and U.A.E in 2009 agreed to two deals under a 2009 framework agreement to develop the UAE's civil and military aerospace industry.

Under the first deal, Boeing will establish local company Strata Manufacturing as a composite aerostructures supplier. Strata will be able to qualify as a tier 1 supplier to Boeing if it meets performance and competitiveness targets set in a so-called "strategic roadmap."
Secondly, the Advanced Military Maintenance Repair and Overhaul Center, a Mubadala Aerospace company, will work under a strategic agreement with Boeing Defense, Space & Security to provide support for military aircraft in the UAE, including Boeing-built Apache and Chinook helicopters and C-17 airlifters.

So if F-15 or F-18 wins U.A.E may develop various parts locally with the help of Boeing as explained they will already have a complete center in place for support. With this the prospects of Boeing winning are far greater compared to Dassault.

PS. It is an "open fighter competition" by the way. Best of luck to dassault and boeing my final take is Boeing you may disagree.