No place for Ahmadis in Imran Khan’s Naya Pakistan

[Dubious]

Is there a specific verse in quran which says mohammed is the last prophet?
the bold bit neither says 'only' nor 'last'.
I remember you saying quran is the final word (compared to hadees).Or was it somebody else?

@hinduguy yes it says Prophet Muhammad is the seal of (final) Prophethood.

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Surah Al-Ahzab verse 40

 

[livingdead]

Yes they are considered heretics but that's not the problem - there is no heresy law applicable - AJ is right that the real problem is that citizens are not equal before the law instead sectarian concerns predominate.

I tend to believe social issues are not easily solved using law, surely better delivery of justice helps but cant eradicate deep rooted bias.
At least that is what the experience in India.

 

[sur]

Prophet Muhammad was indeed the last & final messenger\prophet BUT definition of a muslim is given below... as well as in Quran:2:285 + Q:4:136

I don't believe in definition that alcoholic-Zulfikar Bhutto laid down rather what ALLAH & Last Prophet said...

Where did Prophet say that if anyone don't believe in him as Last messenger or prophet will be a non-Muslim???
Or where does Quran say this???
If that was the case how come Quran says Ibraheim was a Muslim??? Ibraheim was born LONG before Prophet Muhammad & never he's reported to have mentioned Muhammad.!!! Are you fools gonna tell ALLAH that He made a mistake in Quran by calling Ibraheim a Muslim???

Ignorant goofs follow things blindly without bothering to read Quran\Hadees themselves.

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Sahih Bukhari:Volumn 6, Book 60, Hadith Number 300.
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Narated By Abu Huraira : One day while Allah's Apostle was sitting with the people, a man(Gabriel in form of a man) came to him walking and said, "O Allah's Prophet. What is Belief(Eman)?" The Prophet said, "Belief is to believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the meeting with Him, and to believe in the Resurrection." The man asked, "O Allah's Apostle What is Islam?" The Prophet replied, "Islam is to worship Allah and not worship anything besides Him, to offer prayers perfectly, to pay the (compulsory) charity i.e. Zakat and to fast the month of Ramadan." The man again asked, "O Allah's Apostle What is Ihsan (i.e. perfection or Benevolence)?" The Prophet said, "Ihsan is to worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you do not achieve this state of devotion, then (take it for granted that) Allah sees you." The man further asked, "O Allah's Apostle When will the Hour be established?"...



Bukhari:Volumn:1, Book 2, Hadith Number 47.
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Narated By Abu Huraira : One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Gabriel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, 'Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection." Then he further asked, "What is Islam?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah Alone and none else, to offer prayers perfectly to pay the compulsory charity (Zakat) and to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan." Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you." Then he further asked, "When will the Hour be established?" Allah's Apostle replied, "The answerer has no better knowledge than the questioner. But I will inform you about its portents.


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Declaring Ahmadis as non-Muslims was a political move by sharabbee-Bhutto.

Who are these corrupt to declare who is a Muslim & who's not, when Prophet himself set-down definition of a Muslim...

How come NO other country has declared Ahmadis as non-Muslims while a country that has a fair share of Mushrik-Grave-Worshippers felt the need to do so...

Ahmadis, Shia, Braivli, Deobandi, Wahabi, ALL are Muslim as long as they are upto the definition of "Muslim" set down by Prophet & Angel Gabriel. If a muslims comits murder he's a murderer-Muslim, if he commits rape he's a rapist-Muslim. Prohet even said that "Whoever of my Ummah does NOT commit Shirk will enter Paradise",


Shirk is THE BIGGEST sin. Have we declared grave-worshippers non-Muslims in our constitution ???

Q:4:116:Lo! Allah pardons not shirk against Him. He pardons all save that to whom He will. Whoso does shirk unto Allah hath wandered far astray.


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Q:10:18: They worship things beside GOD that possess no power to harm them or benefit them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with GOD!" (شُفَعَـٰٓؤُنَا=Shifaa'At=Waseelaa Banana=سفارشی=وسیلہ) Say, "Are you informing GOD of something He does not know in the heavens or the earth?" Beyond is He(Pure is He) and high exalted above all that ye associate (with Him)!



Q:30:52:"...So verily, you cannot make the dead to hear..."

Q:35:22:"...but you cannot make hear those who are in graves."



Sunan an-Nasa'i 4867. In-book ref:Book 45, Hadith 162. English ref:Vol.5, Book 45, Hadith 4871
"I heard Ana's say: 'The Messenger of Allah said: 'the major sins are; associating others with Allah (shirk), disobeying one's parents, killing a soul (murder) and speaking falsely.

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1>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-ahmadis-qadianis-pakistan-2.html#post4003203
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2>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-ahmadis-qadianis-pakistan-3.html#post4003305
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3>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-ahmadis-qadianis-pakistan-3.html#post4003390
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4>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-ahmadis-qadianis-pakistan-3.html#post4003491

@sur, dont take it as attempt to troll, do ahmedis regard mirza ahmed as prophet or not? In that case they cant claim to believe mohammed as last prophet.

Whichever it is, that does NOT make them a non-Muslim... Orthodox Ahmadis take him as a prophet while so-called "Lahori Group" takes him just as a wali-ulllah. Whatever the case may be writings of Mirza Ahmad claim he was a prophet so that makes him wrong. But my point is following Mirza-The-Pervert does NOT kick anyone out of Islam as long as they are up to the definition of Mislim set down by Prophet Muhammad & Quran. Mirzais are just mis-guided Muslims,, so are many other groups like Grave-Interceders....



Some Brailvis intercede with those graves, why don't they declare them as non-Muslims...!!!
That is shirk & shirk is THE biggest un-forgivable sin (as per Quran)


Quran:10:18, 7:194, 10:3, 10:49, 2:225, 67:13-14, 35:22, 39:38, 32:4, 46:5, 16:20-21,
Bukhari:1:3:98 -&- 5:59:358 -&- 5:59:317.


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Quran even says that non-Muslims can enter Paradise (contrary to propaganda spread against it)

5:69:Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in God (alone) and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.



While there are many examples where Prophet Muhammad told us of some Muslims going to HELL...
Bukhari:52:147:Talks of a Mujahid doing Jihad & all, Prophet told in his life time that he's destined to hell...

 

[Kompromat]

So how do they recognize a state that does not recognize them except on terms dictated by the Jammat - It's Pakistan , not Islamistan, right?



That of course means that the govt is in the business of defining Muslims and Islam - and therefore it can be said with confidence that it is the state itself that is at war with it's own citizenry.

Derive an "Ought" from "is"?

They have the right to vote and contest elections on minority seats. By not participating in the democratic process to work for their due rights isn't helping them is it?

As for 'defining Muslimhood', well it was defined by their Mirza a centuary ago when he clamied that, 'Those Muslims who don't believe in me are in a fact kuffar, and worse than dogs and swine'.

So, it wasn't us who started it, it was 'them' who brought the 'defination' in question. We just replied to a centuary old question by a democratcally elected parliament,instead of a fatwa from some lunatic Mullah as Ahmadis did. Ask any Ahamadi this question and see what he replies if he has any. "Ayena unko dikhaya to bura maan gaye", so the cliche' goes.

 

[muse]

Prophet Muhammad was indeed the last & final messenger\prophet BUT definition of a muslim is given below... as well as in Quran:2:285 + Q:4:136

I don't believe in definition that alcoholic-Zulfikar Bhutto laid down rather what ALLAH & Last Prophet said...

Where did Prophet say that if anyone don't believe in him as Last messenger or prophet will be a non-Muslim???
Or where does Quran say this???
If that was the case how come Quran says Ibraheim was a Muslim??? Ibraheim was born LONG before Prophet Muhammad...

Ignorant goofs follow things blindly without bothering to read Quran\Hadees themselves.

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Sahih Bukhari:Volumn 6, Book 60, Hadith Number 300.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By Abu Huraira : One day while Allah's Apostle was sitting with the people, a man(Gabriel in form of a man) came to him walking and said, "O Allah's Prophet. What is Belief(Eman)?" The Prophet said, "Belief is to believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the meeting with Him, and to believe in the Resurrection." The man asked, "O Allah's Apostle What is Islam?" The Prophet replied, "Islam is to worship Allah and not worship anything besides Him, to offer prayers perfectly, to pay the (compulsory) charity i.e. Zakat and to fast the month of Ramadan." The man again asked, "O Allah's Apostle What is Ihsan (i.e. perfection or Benevolence)?" The Prophet said, "Ihsan is to worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you do not achieve this state of devotion, then (take it for granted that) Allah sees you." The man further asked, "O Allah's Apostle When will the Hour be established?"...



Bukhari:Volumn:1, Book 2, Hadith Number 47.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By Abu Huraira : One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Gabriel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, 'Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection." Then he further asked, "What is Islam?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah Alone and none else, to offer prayers perfectly to pay the compulsory charity (Zakat) and to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan." Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you." Then he further asked, "When will the Hour be established?" Allah's Apostle replied, "The answerer has no better knowledge than the questioner. But I will inform you about its portents.


.
.
.


Declaring Ahmadis as non-Muslims was a political move by sharabbee-Bhutto.

Who are these corrupt to declare who is a Muslim & who's not, when Prophet himself set-down definition of a Muslim...

How come NO other country has declared Ahmadis as non-Muslims while a country that has a fair share of Mushrik-Grave-Worshippers felt the need to do so...

Ahmadis, Shia, Braivli, Deobandi, Wahabi, ALL are Muslim as long as they are upto the definition of "Muslim" set down by Prophet & Angel Gabriel.

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1>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-ahmadis-qadianis-pakistan-2.html#post4003203
.
2>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-ahmadis-qadianis-pakistan-3.html#post4003305
.
3>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-ahmadis-qadianis-pakistan-3.html#post4003390
.
4>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-ahmadis-qadianis-pakistan-3.html#post4003491
.

In Pakistan, Islam is a brand name - no one really gives fcuk about what it really means, what they care about is how it can be used -- that's the difference between Islam and Islam-ism and Muslim and Islam-ist

 

[livingdead]

@sur dont take it as attempt to troll, do ahmedis regard mirza ahmed as prophet or not? In that case they cant claim to believe mohammed as last prophet.
I have nothing to say about the status as muslims though.

 

[Developereo]

That of course means that the govt is in the business of defining Muslims and Islam

It's a logical consequence of the requirement that certain posts should be reserved for Muslims. It is for Pakistanis to decide whether such a requirement is just and compatible with equal rights.

I don't know if many other countries have such restrictions. I think Lebanon has something about certain posts being reserved for Christians, Muslims, etc.

 

[muse]

It's a logical consequence of the requirement that certain posts should be reserved for Muslims. It is for Pakistanis to decide whether such a requirement is just and compatible with equal rights.

I don't know if many other countries have such restrictions. I think Lebanon has something about certain posts being reserved for Christians, Muslims, etc.

Stating the obvious? Now you are reduced to comparing Pakistan with the likes of Lebanon? what next in pursuit of real Islam and real Muslim ? We are not arguing the content of the law, we are commenting on the morality of it, how unfair it is

 

[Kompromat]

@sur dont take it as attempt to troll, do ahmedis regard mirza ahmed as prophet or not? In that case they cant claim to believe mohammed as last prophet.
I have nothing to say about the status as muslims though.

He is taken for 3 in one.

Prophet+Jesus+Mahdi. That is a lot of talent if you ask me.

 

[turbo charged]

jaisi lanat is murtad ki shakal pai perri hui hai....is ki to imran khan tabdeeli razakar bhi na rekhay...jis kai ghar ki bhi bell dai....wo is ko jootay maar ker bhega dai.....

 

[Developereo]

Stating the obvious? Now you are reduced to comparing Pakistan with the likes of Lebanon? what next in pursuit of real Islam and real Muslim ? We are not arguing the content of the law, we are commenting on the morality of it, how unfair it is

I am not comparing anything to anything. I am stating that this is a consequence of certain constitutional requirements in Pakistan.

Let's get back to where this started. Imran Khan is not running on a platform to change Pakistan's constitution. If people want that change, it will have to come from the people themselves.

 

[Zarvan]

Imran Khan’s latest video sums up everything that is wrong with our politicians. He has long been bandied about as a saviour and messiah, come to rescue this country and build towards a ‘Naya Pakistan’.

On paper, he is educated, courageous and relentless in pursuit of success. His cricket days endeared him to millions in this country and his charity work is exemplary. I do not doubt his honesty and I do not doubt his intentions. Just like any other political candidate, I seek to judge him based on what he says and what he does.

His video, however, where he emphatically rejected notions of repealing the second amendment to the Pakistani constitution which declares the Ahmadi community to be non-Muslims does him no good. He stated yesterday,

“PTI totally subscribes to the article in the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on the Ahmadis. It is not part of the PTI agenda to seek amendment of the said article in the Constitution.”

This country has been ravaged by sectarian and ethnic conflicts- we do not value life anymore. We are impervious to the plight of the Hazaras yet we continue to ask potential election candidates whether they can recite the kalma?

We let elected members without educational degrees become our ministers but we do nothing about the brazen manner of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and its violent operations?

We complain about Israel every opportunity we get but light entire neighbourhoods of the Christian community on fire?

Blasphemy law, rape law, treatment of the Ahmadi community, the list goes on forever.

Have you read the MQM manifesto? It talks about human rights.

I would be laughed at if I walked around with it trying to convince people that the MQM deserves our vote because of what their manifesto says. MQM offices get attacked and, shamelessly, we joke about how what goes around comes around. Yet it was the MQM which pointed out the threat of the Taliban back in 2007 and nobody paid any heed to it and today, a city is paying for the warnings it ignored.

What if I was to do the same but with Imran Khan and his manifesto?

I would, in all likelihood, be applauded for making an educated choice in putting my support behind a man who will change the country. No one will say the Imran Khan has never uttered a word against the on-going sectarian conflicts or the rising Taliban power in southern Pakistan. No one will point to the fact that Imran Khan denounced the Ahmadi community’s desire to be included in Islam in less than two minutes using his personal religious belief as a basis.

What bothers me is the hypocritical ease with which we, the people, look such things over and pretend they never happened.

Today, a political candidate is denying a group a basic right to identify based on a fundamentally wrong constitutional law. Tomorrow, someone will go a step further and deny some other group another basic right. Such inherent and open discriminations end up in a vicious cycle.

Just ask the Germans.
No place for Ahmadis in Imran Khan’s Naya Pakistan – The Express Tribune Blog

propaganda of western paid touts ahmedis are not Muslims that is clear but as minorities they would have those rights which Islam gives and Imran talk against action of talibnan but also gives solution which american touts don't like and they hate those who stand for Islam

Stating the obvious? Now you are reduced to comparing Pakistan with the likes of Lebanon? what next in pursuit of real Islam and real Muslim ? We are not arguing the content of the law, we are commenting on the morality of it, how unfair it is

sir that is not unfair to be Muslim youn have to believe that hazrat Muhammad saw is the last and final prophet and no prophet other than Jesus would come and Jesus would return not born again and ahmedis don't so they are not Muslims sir

 

[muse]

I am not comparing anything to anything. I am stating that this is a consequence of certain constitutional requirements in Pakistan.

Let's get back to where this started. Imran Khan is not running on a platform to change Pakistan's constitution. If people want that change, it will have to come from the people themselves.

The people of Pakistan excommunicated the Ahmadi? That's makes a rather complicated issue into a simple one, this excommunication was the result of agitation the Jamaat and to equate the jamaat with the people of Pakistan is problematic - on the other hand the ratification was done done by Majlis, here again, the issue is one of morality of such a thing, not who owes it.

 

[MilSpec]

What exactly is pakistans Issue with Ahemadis, can someone explain please!

 

[Peregrine]

The matter of declaring Qadianeez as Muslims is not upto any political party.......So to blame IK here is quite unfair and seems to be concealing a political agenda. Even if all the political parties, military and judiciary join forces to have Qadianeez declared Muslims........They will never be accepted as Muslims by the actual Muslims since Qadianeez defy the basic tenents of Islam.