No One Can Seperate Islam and Pakistan: Gen. Kayani

[DavyJones]

I think Pak has been an unfortunate victim of American policies during the Cold war. Pakistan was on it's way to becoming the Turkey of South Asia till the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. People don't realise the massive change that took place after this.
But I would like to ask Kayani saab - what sort of Islam should define Pakistan - the virulent middle ages type propogated by Taliban or the moderate Islam. I suspect it will be the latter. India faces the same problem with it's interpretation of Hinduism sometimes.

 

[Bhaarat]

I think Pak has been an unfortunate victim of American policies during the Cold war. Pakistan was on it's way to becoming the Turkey of South Asia till the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. People don't realise the massive change that took place after this.

Pakistan has always seen itself as an Islamic country. The people also have always stress on their islamic identity. Which is contrasting in many ways to Turkey. But, you are right, after Soviet intervention, particularly after seccession of East Pakistan, two major decisions were taken by Zia administration:

-Pursuing the nuclear bomb
-more islam in ruling.

But I would like to ask Kayani saab - what sort of Islam should define Pakistan - the virulent middle ages type propogated by Taliban or the moderate Islam. I suspect it will be the latter. India faces the same problem with it's interpretation of Hinduism sometimes.

Kiyaniji is caught in between.
One side, there are lot of people who want Pakistan to be more islamic. It is wrong to brand them as 'people from middle ages' or 'extremists'. Many of them are average muslims who want their country to adher to the religion/ideology on whose basis it was created. lets call them 'believers'.
On the other see, pakistan's problem as a result of its stress on the religion and want to remove religion from ruling and take pakistan on a secular path. lets call them 'seculars'.

The problem is that one group shows the other to drive their point. Believers see the seculars who are out to take out religion from pakistan, so they stress on more islam and more of it.
Seculars see believers who want to 'take pakistan to middle ages' and demand that religion not be given any role in ruling the country.

Both the groups are not happy with the status quo. Kiyaniji is fighting both sides.

 

[Super Falcon]

well these indians wont stop untill we will kick them out pakistan is because of ISLAM not islam because of pakistan so shut ur mouth and we dont require ur thouths any more in it

 

[iPhone]

It is Bharat Rakshak (Rakshak meaning protector). I haven't checked that forum... Maybe if time permits I might.


I did not want to generalize, but the past couple of months (since I have been on this forum) have changed my opinion. Just have a look at the number of talk shows (especially Zaid Hamid) that are based on hatred towards Indians... Even the Indian muslims would reject his rants against Indians.
.

Yes report back here with your findings on that forum, sir. You'll get a grasp of real hatred and racism towards Pakistan and Pakistanis from your fellow Indians and god forbid if there's a Pakistani presenting a different POV, forget abusive language toward his nationality his family is dragged into the midst, too. I've seen plenty of such phychotic and racist behavior towards Pakistanis from Indians on their websites, and many members here might attest to it and may have their own experiences. Heck, I believe you may be quiet aware of it too. On Pakistani websites and forums Indians are always given a proper independent and fair voice to express themselves with very little hostility and strict moderation toward personal and racist and abusive remarks. Sadly, that's not the case for Pakistanis on an Indian website, and I think you and other Indian members here know that quiet well. So for you to come here and start accusing Pakistani people of having hatred toward India is very hypocritical of you.

And how convenient of you to point out one talk show/host who is highly discredited by majority of pakistanis while totally disregaring your own Pak-basing media, it's all too typical indian behavior. But you know what, no hard feelings, god knows we have our own problems and shortcommings and need to focus on those, that should be our priorty, highlighting your problems in no way are gonna fix ours, what you do with your issues including anti-pak sentiments or don't, do shouldn't be our problem.

 

[Bhaarat]

well these indians wont stop untill we will kick them out pakistan is because of ISLAM not islam because of pakistan

Exactly. Islam was before Pakistan and perhaps long after Pakistan. Most pakistanis tend to take troubles of Pakistan as troubles of Islam, this feeling is not shared by non-pakistani muslims. Pakistani ummah supporters also expect ummah(whenever it is formed) to be fair to muslims from Pakistan as well. The ummah proponents of middle-east, dont share the idea. Also, from a saudi's perspective, saudi must be the ruler of ummah, because both the holy places are controlled by them, also koran was revealed to a saudi. Therefore, there are difference of opinions on Ummah.

 

[Bhaarat]

Yes report back here with your findings on that forum, sir. You'll get a grasp of real hatred and racism towards Pakistan and Pakistanis from your fellow Indians and god forbid if there's a Pakistani presenting a different POV, forget abusive language toward his nationality his family is dragged into the midst, too. I've seen plenty of such phychotic and racist behavior towards Pakistanis from Indians on their websites, and many members here might attest to it and may have their own experiences. Heck, I believe you may be quiet aware of it too. On Pakistani websites and forums Indians are always given a proper independent and fair voice to express themselves with very little hostility and strict moderation toward personal and racist and abusive remarks. Sadly, that's not the case for Pakistanis on an Indian website, and I think you and other Indian members here know that quiet well. So for you to come here and start accusing Pakistani people of having hatred toward India is very hypocritical of you.

And how convenient of you to point out one talk show/host who is highly discredited by majority of pakistanis while totally disregaring your own Pak-basing media, it's all too typical indian behavior. But you know what, no hard feelings, god knows we have our own problems and shortcommings and need to focus on those, that should be our priorty, highlighting your problems in no way are gonna fix ours, what you do with your issues including anti-pak sentiments or don't, do shouldn't be our problem.

Mate,

is it fair to draw your opinion about a nation of billion based on a website? You can easily find other more friendly indian sites if you search for them. I can show you some, if you want. That does not mean, I am saying Indians love Pakistanis. But dont use a website as your gauging mechanism for an entire nation.

 

[iPhone]

Mate,

is it fair to draw your opinion about a nation of billion based on a website? You can easily find other more friendly indian sites if you search for them. I can show you some, if you want. That does not mean, I am saying Indians love Pakistanis. But dont use a website as your gauging mechanism for an entire nation.

I'm not, bro and it's not just one website there are numerous. But potatoe patata, it doesn't even matter, I'm sure in person Indians are a lot friendly as my own personal experience indicates, probably it's the phycology of being on the Internet that does something, I don't know. But in the end, like I emphasized before, instead of hounding each other over nonsense and wasting our energies on blame games it's about time we should redirect our energy and effort into our own problem solving. Cuz once again call out each other on their shortcommings is not going to solve the other party's problems one bit.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

See, anyone today within and without Pakistan knows very well that one thing all Pakistanis agree on is that Pakistan is islamic. Why is this obvious thing being stressed again by Kiyaniji? Remember, he is not just any other person. He is the most powerful person in Pakistan. If he has to issue a reassurance than it has to be taken seriously. Every word Kiyaniji speaks in public is of great importance to Pakistan similar to the way every word of Obama is important to US. One cannot dismiss it as routine talk. Also Kiyaniji is not a loosemouth like, say, musharraf who loved to talk. Kiyaniji talks very less, and only on important matters.

don't worry bout it...

he was making a speech and he said it. The only one making a big deal out of it is you.

 

[Bhaarat]

I'm not, bro and it's not just one website there are numerous. But potatoe patata, it doesn't even matter, I'm sure in person Indians are a lot friendly as my own personal experience indicates, probably it's the phycology of being on the Internet that does something, I don't know.

You are right, buddy.

But in the end, like I emphasized before, instead of hounding each other over nonsense and wasting our energies on blame games it's about time we should redirect our energy and effort into our own problem solving. Cuz once again call out each other on their shortcommings is not going to solve the other party's problems one bit.

You are right, but we are all humans, so we all do, what we do. Ideally, every nation must concentrate on developing its people, that task itself will make the nations' hands full. But, world is world.

 

[Bhaarat]

don't worry bout it...

Sir,
It doesnt worry me either way. I just am curious to understand it.

he was making a speech and he said it. The only one making a big deal out of it is you.

I take your Gen. seriously, perhaps you dont.

 

[Spring Onion]

Exactly. Islam was before Pakistan and perhaps long after Pakistan. Most pakistanis tend to take troubles of Pakistan as troubles of Islam, this feeling is not shared by non-pakistani muslims. Pakistani ummah supporters also expect ummah(whenever it is formed) to be fair to muslims from Pakistan as well. The ummah proponents of middle-east, dont share the idea. Also, from a saudi's perspective, saudi must be the ruler of ummah, because both the holy places are controlled by them, also koran was revealed to a saudi. Therefore, there are difference of opinions on Ummah.

All Muslims are equal and there is no difference if Quran was revealed to an Arab or non Arab.

The Prophet (PBUH) clearly said There is no preference to Arabs over non-Arabs, white over black and so on.

whoever leads (kindly correct your misperception its not ruling but leading) so whoever leads the Ummah, it must be a powerful country in terms of military, strategy, economy and many other things. Or the leader could be chosen by consensus.

And no Pakistanis do not tend to take our troubles as troubles of Islam rather the world and specially Indians take any achievement by Pakistan as achievement of Islam hence try to create troubles for Pakistan.

 

[Spring Onion]

Sir,
It doesnt worry me either way. I just am curious to understand it.

If you did not take any lesson from creation of Pakistan and failed to understand the basic ideology behind creation of Pakistan then you need not to be curious as you can never understand because you guys still want to negate the creation of Pakistan

I take your Gen. seriously, perhaps you dont.

We take him more seriously than you so we have no problem nor we are surprised when he is repeating what the entire Pakistan thinks

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

bharaty, dont be silly.

 

[gogbot]

I doubt any of these philosophies will survive the 21st century.

say what ever you want now, the future of all religion isn't all that bright.
well Buddhism is still cool, Other then that the rest have their days numbered.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

not for those who stay on the path. Religion stays the same, it never changes...