No evidence India supporting terror in Pakistan: Holbrooke

[SSGPA1]

No evidence India supporting terror in Pakistan: Holbrooke

* US special envoy says what happens in Pakistan affects situation in Afghanistan
* Says no tensions between Pakistan and US

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: There is no evidence that India is supporting violence in Pakistan, US Special Representative on Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke said on Friday.

“If the Indians were supporting those miscreants in Pakistan that would be extraordinarily bad, really dangerous, but they are not doing so. There is no evidence that Indians are support miscreants in western parts of Pakistan or in Balochistan,” he said in an interview with a private TV channel.

US also said that there are WMDs in Iraq, after killing 100K innocent people there is still no evidence of WMDs in Iraq.

India has many consulates in Afghanistan, actually more than they have in US. Many Afghans have been caught who claim to be Indian agents. Evidence have been provided but there is no result.

It is US strategy to support indfia at all forums and corner Pakistan with Indian help.

Pakistanis don't need a certificate from Mr. Holbrook.

 

[Energon]

Why do we need to seek validation from the US? Either the Pak government tells us they are sure of the Indian activity or they are not. If they are sure, blow up those consulates and the people of Pakistan will support the government for protecting our lives.

"Blow up those consulates"? Are you high?
You do realize that attacks upon foreign embassies and/or consulates amount to acts of war, and that only a terrorist state would even think of using proxies to conduct bombings and suicide attacks upon foreign missions of other nations yes? Which line of delusional thinking do you envision Pakistan pursuing into oblivion?

Do you even think before you compose these posts?

And yet you'll be the first one red faced and indignant screaming foul from the top of your lungs about unfair "Indian aggression", "drama" and "mortal threats" when they react to another act of war.

 

[shukla_swapnil]

US also said that there are WMDs in Iraq, after killing 100K innocent people there is still no evidence of WMDs in Iraq.

India has many consulates in Afghanistan, actually more than they have in US. Many Afghans have been caught who claim to be Indian agents. Evidence have been provided but there is no result.

It is US strategy to support indfia at all forums and corner Pakistan with Indian help.

Pakistanis don't need a certificate from Mr. Holbrook.

No WMD in Iraq agreed but what has Pakistan done about it and what does it plan to do? Nothing because in current situation it cant. this is onereason Pakistan has stayed quiet about it.

Your post generally compiles all the retorts generally posted by Pakistan, so I choose to reply to th same instead of dealing with that individually.

Without mincing any word my dear, This all is nothing but a Huge CHEST THUMPING excercise.

India has many consulates in Afghanistan, : First come with a figure my answer will depend upon it. None of the NATO countries have a problem with Indian cosulates and Pakistan is isolated on this issue.

The fact of the matter is, Pakistan govt has not only lost credibility but also all the spine and has turned into a jelly state. All the high claims being made are appearing from the nooks and corner are not reflected at all in the official statements. US is running the oproxy govt. in Pakistan and you guys have not been able to do anything about it. They handpicked the highest leadership, they handpicked the strongest position in Army, they conduct drone strikes within your terretory and nothing has been done by Pakistan apart from some token protest in mewing voices.

US was convinced about mumbai attack being planned in Pakistan, Pakistan owned upto it despite thumping chest and claiming on the contrary. US denied Indian involvement in Lahore and all the voices on contrary were muted immidiately. Rehman Malik tried to pull a fast one within a closed door meeting and Holbrook slammed it in dirt so hard that the dust raised could see Malik going down with it.

You speak about yet to be proved activities of Indian consulates, what have you done about not only clerly proven and as dubbed by Pakistani media - Civilian killing drone strikes. Voices were raised that its an attack on soverignity of our country, butattacks continued and soverignity diluted.

Only place where your army decided to take a stance was not commiting to attack within your terretory on fighters trained by them. Army is in a dillema, they can not fight against people they have themselves trained with an ideology of Islamist terrorism. Now US will keep on twisting PA arm till they either buckle under pressure anstart some action or there is a mutiny within PA with people refusing to fight against muslim brothers.

For the bit about bombing consulates, well it the highest form of BS. dont even dare try that.

Pakisatn dont need a certificate from Holbrook/ US is not important: I can say in one sentence - Partnering US in WOT was as a hindi saying goes "SHER KI SAWARI"(riding a lion) you can not get of the lion as the lion will eat you and you can not keep riding on it forever coz you will be thrown of at some point of time.

For the evidence - Malik was blatently LYING. We have never seen any evidence from Pakistan. All those terrorists, why have they not been tried in court (Like Kasab is). Try them make a big deal out of it. Make it an international story. I think India is doing a good job of it.

About raising voice - whom do you expect to raise it, Mr. Zardari, Gen. Kayani or Nawaz Sherif or Mr. Imran Khan?The current scene does not have any single leader with a strong enough will and spine.

 

[Munir]

Well, the US and India are trying to split Pakistan and to remove the nukes. They are busy with eachother to that scale that even providing latest weapons and nuclear tech is on the table. Never did US say something about Tamil terrorism supported by India. Never did they say anything about human rights or occupation of Kashmir. And Gujarat was pretty much worth to be followed by international tribunal in The Hague... So we know how muich we should pay attention to a nation that used nukes and occupied and terrorized enough nations on earth... Now it is even a failed economical power.

 

[SSGPA1]

No WMD in Iraq agreed but what has Pakistan done about it and what does it plan to do? Nothing because in current situation it cant. this is onereason Pakistan has stayed quiet about it.

Not a single country did anything about it so Pakistan is no different.

Pakistan learned valueable lessons which will help Pakistan if a situation like that arise.

India has many consulates in Afghanistan, : First come with a figure my answer will depend upon it. None of the NATO countries have a problem with Indian cosulates and Pakistan is isolated on this issue.

I think the number is 17. Yes Pakistan is alone in the sense taht it doesn't have support from West but it has support from its traditional allies.

NATO and the US have no problem because it is their policy to push Pakistan to the brink and plan is to put India in control in Afghanistan.

The fact of the matter is, Pakistan govt has not only lost credibility but also all the spine and has turned into a jelly state. All the high claims being made are appearing from the nooks and corner are not reflected at all in the official statements. US is running the oproxy govt. in Pakistan and you guys have not been able to do anything about it.

True but this stuation will not last for long. Watch Pakistan's pilitical landscape change in the next coming weeks. I will not say much at this point.

They handpicked the highest leadership, they handpicked the strongest position in Army, they conduct drone strikes within your terretory and nothing has been done by Pakistan apart from some token protest in mewing voices.

Do you honestly think that your leadership is picked on pure merit? It is not any different than Pakistan and 26/11 is an example, when your leadership moved from the plan to attack Pakistan.

US was convinced about mumbai attack being planned in Pakistan, Pakistan owned upto it despite thumping chest and claiming on the contrary.

Like I said earlier, we don't need a certificate from the US unlike India. Pakistan will do whatever needs to be done. All the media hype and a case in court, now what did you get out of this. India kept claiming that ISI is involved and not a single country blamed the ISI so there you go. Spend as much as you want result is zero!

Only place where your army decided to take a stance was not commiting to attack within your terretory on fighters trained by them. Army is in a dillema, they can not fight against people they have themselves trained with an ideology of Islamist terrorism. Now US will keep on twisting PA arm till they either buckle under pressure anstart some action or there is a mutiny within PA with people refusing to fight against muslim brothers.

Muslims or non Muslims, no one likes to attack their own brothers but the current situationn warrants that PA take action and it is because of the PA actions that Taliban and Sufi agreed to the peace accord. If they will breach the accord then PA will be taking care of them.

Pakisatn dont need a certificate from Holbrook/ US is not important: I can say in one sentence - Partnering US in WOT was as a hindi saying goes "SHER KI SAWARI"(riding a lion) you can not get of the lion as the lion will eat you and you can not keep riding on it forever coz you will be thrown of at some point of time.

For the evidence - Malik was blatently LYING. We have never seen any evidence from Pakistan. All those terrorists, why have they not been tried in court (Like Kasab is). Try them make a big deal out of it. Make it an international story. I think India is doing a good job of it.

Each situation requires a different strategy, at that point it was necessary and also in interest of Pakistan so Pakistan joined WOT. Trust me we know who to put that kaghaz ka sher in its place too.

Pakistan believes in taking action unless India where people are put on trial to pacify thegeneral population.

What happened to Sunjay Dutt? Is he not a convict? A convict for terrorist activities! Soon he will become a member of your paliament - only in India! Indian police and army will salute him. If SD decides to visit an army base, he will be given protocol.

About raising voice - whom do you expect to raise it, Mr. Zardari, Gen. Kayani or Nawaz Sherif or Mr. Imran Khan?The current scene does not have any single leader with a strong enough will and spine.

True that there is no one leader at this point, but next elections will be different. Pakistan is going through a tough phase but it will go through and pass insha-Allah.

BTW, who is India's leader? My friend leadership is not any different in India either. The biggest democracy will again have a coalition full of self centre people trying to ensure their own benefits.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

US also said that there are WMDs in Iraq, after killing 100K innocent people there is still no evidence of WMDs in Iraq.

India has many consulates in Afghanistan, actually more than they have in US. Many Afghans have been caught who claim to be Indian agents. Evidence have been provided but there is no result.

It is US strategy to support indfia at all forums and corner Pakistan with Indian help.

Pakistanis don't need a certificate from Mr. Holbrook.

As a matter of fact, you do. Holbrooke is the key man in formulation of US strategy about Afghanistan & Pakistan. At the least, you need certificate from any country that matters, about Indian involvement in Pakistani terrorism. So far, you have got none. All you have been doing is chest beating & cries of foul, which is making you look increasingly stupid & pathetic on the world fora.

 

[shukla_swapnil]

Not a single country did anything about it so Pakistan is no different.

Pakistan learned valueable lessons which will help Pakistan if a situation like that arise.



I think the number is 17. Yes Pakistan is alone in the sense taht it doesn't have support from West but it has support from its traditional allies.

NATO and the US have no problem because it is their policy to push Pakistan to the brink and plan is to put India in control in Afghanistan.



True but this stuation will not last for long. Watch Pakistan's pilitical landscape change in the next coming weeks. I will not say much at this point.




Do you honestly think that your leadership is picked on pure merit? It is not any different than Pakistan and 26/11 is an example, when your leadership moved from the plan to attack Pakistan.



Like I said earlier, we don't need a certificate from the US unlike India. Pakistan will do whatever needs to be done. All the media hype and a case in court, now what did you get out of this. India kept claiming that ISI is involved and not a single country blamed the ISI so there you go. Spend as much as you want result is zero!




Muslims or non Muslims, no one likes to attack their own brothers but the current situationn warrants that PA take action and it is because of the PA actions that Taliban and Sufi agreed to the peace accord. If they will breach the accord then PA will be taking care of them.



Each situation requires a different strategy, at that point it was necessary and also in interest of Pakistan so Pakistan joined WOT. Trust me we know who to put that kaghaz ka sher in its place too.

Pakistan believes in taking action unless India where people are put on trial to pacify thegeneral population.

What happened to Sunjay Dutt? Is he not a convict? A convict for terrorist activities! Soon he will become a member of your paliament - only in India! Indian police and army will salute him. If SD decides to visit an army base, he will be given protocol.




True that there is no one leader at this point, but next elections will be different. Pakistan is going through a tough phase but it will go through and pass insha-Allah.

BTW, who is India's leader? My friend leadership is not any different in India either. The biggest democracy will again have a coalition full of self centre people trying to ensure their own benefits.

Exactly what I wanted to raise. Pakistan can keep on ranting about possible actions and withdrawal. Pakistan can keep on ranting about Indian consulates in Afghanistan. Everything has been for domestic consumption.

For the political scenario in Pakistan, I dont see any change forthcoming in years leave alone few weeks.

Indian leadership I choose to ignore the question (not because I dont havean answer) because it adds nothing to the discussion. Even the current leadership is strong enough to isolate Pakistan on key issues in subcontinent. General world perception is
a) Kashmir not a burning hot international issue. Its a bilateral issue between India and Pakistan.
b) Positive reception of Indian contribution in Afghanistan
c) Pressurising Pakistan in accepting Indian stance on terrorism.
d) Talks are doing circles about possibility of ISI being involved with terror acivities. Even PA and its commitment is being questioned on International Stage.

Sanjay Dutt - Also irrelevant to the thread(He has been barred from contesting elections)

Recognition of Talibans as brothers isone issue which is biting Pakistan the hardest. They are internationally denounced group and still Pakistan has a soft spot for them.

How are next election going to change anything? If you can elaborate it'll be of great help.

 

[linkinpark]

Well, the US and India are trying to split Pakistan and to remove the nukes. They are busy with eachother to that scale that even providing latest weapons and nuclear tech is on the table. Never did US say something about Tamil terrorism supported by India. Never did they say anything about human rights or occupation of Kashmir. And Gujarat was pretty much worth to be followed by international tribunal in The Hague... So we know how muich we should pay attention to a nation that used nukes and occupied and terrorized enough nations on earth... Now it is even a failed economical power.

How Gujarat is related to this issue. We have civil courts to deal with those issues. India has already declared LTTE as a terrorist organization and SL govt. knows which side we are on. All your drivel is nothing but knee-jerk reactions without any link to the topic being discussed.

 

[BATMAN]

No evidence India supporting terror in Pakistan: Holbrooke

* US special envoy says what happens in Pakistan affects situation in Afghanistan
* Says no tensions between Pakistan and US

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: There is no evidence that India is supporting violence in Pakistan, US Special Representative on Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke said on Friday.

“If the Indians were supporting those miscreants in Pakistan that would be extraordinarily bad, really dangerous, but they are not doing so. There is no evidence that Indians are support miscreants in western parts of Pakistan or in Balochistan,” he said in an interview with a private TV channel.

He said India was the second largest country in the world and one of the most important. “If we are interested in helping Pakistan, we will have to talk to its neighbours, which include China, India and Afghanistan,” he added.

He said India had given about $1 billion assistance to Afghanistan, and it should not be a cause of concern for Pakistan. “Pakistan does not need to worry about India in Afghanistan, but it has to be worried about miscreants and militants in its western parts,” he added.

To question about the Kashmir issue between India and Pakistan, he said his job was only related to Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Pakistan affects: About the use of the term “Af-Pak”, Holbrooke said it emphasised that what happened in Afghanistan was affected by what happened in Pakistan.

The US special envoy denied there were tensions between Pakistan and the US, saying the US wanted to help Pakistan fight the common enemies.

“Pakistan, the US, Afghanistan and India have a common goal of defeating the militants, who were trying to destroy democracy in Pakistan,” he said, adding that US President Barack Obama was committed to supporting Pakistan. “The Obama government has asked the Congress for a big support for Pakistan, and I myself went around the world raising money for Pakistan and had a very successful conference in Tokyo that raised $5 billion for Pakistan,” he added.

He denied the US drone attacks were killing innocent people and proving counter productive. Asked if there was a secret agreement between Pakistan and the US for drone attacks, he said the previous US administration could answer the question.

He denied the US wanted to carry out drone attacks in Quetta.

He rebuffed the news that the ISI chief had refused to meet him during his recent visit to Pakistan. He said General Pasha and army chief Gen Ashfaq Kayani were great military leaders.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

How credible is US after the ruined the lives of many states around the world.
Later they appologise for faulty intelligence and President come forward to accept his mistakes and immediately after comes a new one!!!
Many wanted terrorists from Pakistan are under the official protection of US, some of them are housed along with their private armies.
Classic enemy of Pakistan India is running its anti Pakistan operations from Afghanistan.

On the other hand, Indians have openly admitted that the were behind Bangladesh sepratist movement, Srilankan sepratis movement..... If Pakistan present evidence that India is behind the state wide terrorism and sepratisit conspiracies than it is no surprise.

 

[BATMAN]

 

[koolio]

As a matter of fact, you do. Holbrooke is the key man in formulation of US strategy about Afghanistan & Pakistan. At the least, you need certificate from any country that matters, about Indian involvement in Pakistani terrorism. So far, you have got none. All you have been doing is chest beating & cries of foul, which is making you look increasingly stupid & pathetic on the world fora.

Its increasingly clear the rethoric you are displaying you are ill wisher of Pakistani's yet its the opposite to the peaceful Indian you claim to be, Pakistan is a sovereign country it has its own brain to decide what its best for itself not to be dictated by someone who doesnt have any credibility at all the US is sinking day by day because of the economic mess it has created for itself and the world, India cannot be trusted one single cent with its leaders issuing threatening statements how do you expect Pakistan just to concentrate solely on borders with Afghanistan and ignoring completely its eastern borders.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

Lack of punctuation. Let me try to separate it & handle one by one.

Its increasingly clear the rethoric you are displaying you are ill wisher of Pakistani's yet its the opposite to the peaceful Indian you claim to be, Pakistan is a sovereign country it has its own brain

I call myself Peaceful only because I do not prefer any direct confrontation between India & Pakistan. None of my posts have contradicted my contention. Being peaceful does not stop me from pointing out the loop holes in Pakistani strategy & bull sh!t that goes on about Indian involvement in terror activities in Pakistan. Yes, and you used to be a sovereign country. Not any more. And we can see where your brains have led you & the world. So trust me, nobody cares about that part.

US is sinking day by day because of the economic mess it has created for itself and the world,

Light years away from the topic. US is still #1 economy in the world, and would continue to be for quite a few years. In short - None of Pakistan's business.

India cannot be trusted one single cent with its leaders issuing threatening statements how do you expect Pakistan just to concentrate solely on borders with Afghanistan and ignoring completely its eastern borders.

You should be glad that all India is doing is issue 'Threatening Statements'. Your actions deserved much more than that. General populace here believes that GoI has not done enough against Pakistani strategy of using terrorism as a state policy.

And nobody in India cares how much army you put up on your eastern borders. If you want to leave your Western borders relatively insecure, thats your privilege. Your government wants you to believe that India is still the #1 threat. And you have been naive (fool?) enough to fall for it.

 

[SSGPA1]

As a matter of fact, you do. Holbrooke is the key man in formulation of US strategy about Afghanistan & Pakistan. At the least, you need certificate from any country that matters, about Indian involvement in Pakistani terrorism. So far, you have got none. All you have been doing is chest beating & cries of foul, which is making you look increasingly stupid & pathetic on the world fora.

Holbrooke is only a part of a long chain which takes part in policy formulation. There are other important lobbies and senators who are in support of Pakistan so Pakistan does have the luxury of ignoring Holbrooke.

One of the two things will happen, either Holbrooke will change his attitude or he will be replaced.

 

[Goodperson]

US endorses Indian role in Afghanistan
26 Apr 2009, 2102 hrs IST, Chidanand Rajghatta, TNN

WASHINGTON: The United States has endorsed India's regional primacy, including the role it is playing in Afghanistan, against strenuous objections from Pakistan.

In the process, Washington also rubbished Islamabad's allegations that New Delhi was using Kabul to destabilize Pakistan, saying once again that Pakistan needs to worry about its own terrorists rather than Indian presence in Afghanistan.

Key American pronouncements in this regard came during an interview by US Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan (******) Richard Holbrooke to a Pakistani television network, whose host asked him about India's locus standi vis-à-vis Afghanistan when "it does not have a common border or a Pashtun population."

"Of course...India will have a role. It is the second biggest country in the world! What India does matters to the world!" Holbrooke exclaimed.

When the host followed up by asking Holbrooke about what Pakistan claims are subversive actions carried out by over-staffed (by spies) Indian consulates in Afghanistan bordering Pakistan, Holbrooke simply laughed at the idea.

"Pakistan has told me India has hundreds of people in (the consulate) at Kandahar," he chortled. "I asked people...asked Americans and the UN...how big is the Indian consulate in Kandahar...and they said six to eight people."

"Pakistan does not have to worry about Indians in Afghanistan. It has to worry about miscreants in western Pakistan," Holbrooke advised.

The allegation that India is supporting separatist elements in Balochistan has become a part of the new Pakistani narrative. Some Pakistanis see a grand conspiracy involving New Delhi, Washington, and even Israel to divide Pakistan and divest it of its "nuclear assets." No less a person than Pakistan's interior secretary Rehman Malik offered "proof" of Indian involvement in Balochistan to Pakistani law-makers recently.

While even the liberal Pakistani media has scoffed at the idea of India's involvement in Balochistan, it has been advanced by some American experts in Washington who are seen as sympathetic to Islamabad. Christine Fair, an analyst with Rand Corporation, recently suggested darkly that New Delhi was not entirely above board, saying Indian personnel were doing more than just distributing visas at its consulates bordering Pakistan's western border.

But Holbrooke, who would have access to definitive intelligence, showed little patience for such conspiracy theories that appear aimed at manipulating domestic public opinion in Pakistan against India. He said there is "no evidence at all, that Indians are supporting miscreants" in Pakistan along its border with Afghanistan.

Further defending New Delhi's role in Afghanistan, Holbrooke said the United States did not tell India what to do in that country. India had given $ 1 billion to Afghanistan and "the assistance is very public." India had built Afghanistan’s parliament building, "a very useful road in the south west" linking Iran, trained agriculture experts and given scholarships.

"All of that is open. What India is doing is part of the international efforts. I don't think it should be of concern to Pakistan," Holbrooke said. It is the first time that any administration official has so bluntly told Pakistan that it was way out of league and out of line in objecting to India's presence in Afghanistan, with which New Delhi claims historical and millennial ties, and a contiguity that predates Islam. It appeared to be part of the many "painful, specific" conversations that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently said US officials were having with Pakistan to explain its place in the scheme of things.

Holbrooke also avoided the interviewer's effort to draw him into a discussion on Kashmir, saying "my job is only Afghanistan and Pakistan...and when I go to India it is only to consult them and keep them abreast and to let them know what is happening."

He joked that the media was constantly trying to get him "to say the K-word and I try not to say it."

US endorses Indian role in Afghanistan - US - World - The Times of India

 

[SSGPA1]

You should be glad that all India is doing is issue 'Threatening Statements'. Your actions deserved much more than that. General populace here believes that GoI has not done enough against Pakistani strategy of using terrorism as a state policy.

And nobody in India cares how much army you put up on your eastern borders. If you want to leave your Western borders relatively insecure, thats your privilege. Your government wants you to believe that India is still the #1 threat. And you have been naive (fool?) enough to fall for it.

Losers like yourself come on this forum and write BS. Your pathetic country couldn't do anything because you don't have the b**ls and resources do so!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/20131-indian-army-backed-out-pakistan-attack.html

Pakistan will nuke India if there is an attack on Pakistan so don't worry how many soldiers we have on East or West. India will get its share of nuclear heat!

Hindustan, the land of Hindus, where Muslims, Sikhs and Christians are slaughtered and nuns are raped - this very country is the threat #1 along Talibans.

Hindustani consulates support Talibans and they in turn spread terrorism in Pakistan.

If you have an iota of doubt regarding our nukes hitting Hindustan then get your brain scanned ASAP!!