next lal masjid ?masood azhar madrasa bahawalpur

[Razia Sultana]

Funny isn't it that he has near impeccable forum manners ever if his thoughts seem like they come from the 11th century. Especially when you compare it with many whose thoughts are more grounded in the present time but whose forum manners seem heavily influenced from the 11th century method of displaying disagreement.....

I dont know your expectations from this forum but my minimum expectation is that a person maintains basic decorum and decency. No man changes his thoughts during a debate and he will go on and on defending himself. Idea is not to win a debate and convert a thought process by argument but leave such people with a food for thought to ponder over when they are alone and reflecting. And then exit the debate more respectfully.

 

[Gazi]

I know you don't like to see Pakistan in this mess. But do you really wan to have an argument on Radicalization.
What was Kasab wasn't he the new face of Radicalized Pakistani? I will not go in detail about this because i don't want to humiliate anyone. As you Know you have some fringe elements in some border parts of your country it doesn't mean that that they will not come to bite you and the Peshawar act has reiterated that. As i told you before there is nothing left in stereotyping it's just i am finding it hard why people here don't understand that world is not Anti-Pakistan or they hate Pakistan. It is Pakistan who hate their own Country and continue to harm them. i don't want to indulge in any ,akimng any Judgement. I will tell you i am seeing to type of Pakistan in front of me One is Pakistan doing Zarbe Azb and other one which is in full display on this thread from pager 1. It's Pakistani people who have to decide what is best for them.

The problem is you are discussing EFFECTS without understanding the CAUSES. In India people also join Naxalites for some reason and we also saw LTTE stuff in Srilanka for Three Decades so Radicalization is not just confined to Religion only its way bigger then that and it Exploits Social Vulnerabilities like Poverty, Hunger etc. Same goes for Pakistan as well as Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Srilanka, India and other Third World Countries. Pakistan acting on this Problem is itself a Proof that they are interested in Saving their Country from it. How many People would you find who Support ISIS and Taliban in this Forum so far tell me honestly????

 

[Salik]

At least they know something called Ghusl-e-Janabat, which the modern world only adopted few decades ago:
Ghusl e Janabat Ka Tariqa

Adopted meant they didn't use to take a bath earlier? Relation of man and water is five digit years old. Its that Arab had shortage of water, desert area, they needed a refresher.

Apart, science has decoded mystry of pure and impure. Ever heard dry cleaning.

 

[Mukunda Murthi Rao]

The problem is you are discussing EFFECTS without understanding the CAUSES. In India people also join Naxalites for some reason and we also saw LTTE stuff in Srilanka for Three Decades so Radicalization is not just confined to Religion only its way bigger then that and it Exploits Social Vulnerabilities like Poverty, Hunger etc. Same goes for Pakistan as well as Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Srilanka, India and other Third World Countries. Pakistan acting on this Problem is itself a Proof that they are interested in Saving their Country from it. How many People would you find who Support ISIS and Taliban in this Forum so far tell me honestly????

Do you think faizal shehzad did what he did for poverty or hunger?
its more of an ideological struggle. thinking muslim is a monolith and that the problem of every muslim in the world is the problem of every other muslim.
Though it might be good thinking that way, but it should be more in a peaceful way, rather than thinking killing kafir who oppress muslim takes you to paradise. There are more muslims being oppressed by muslims than muslims being oppressed by non muslims.

 

[Gazi]

Do you think faizal shehzad did what he did for poverty or hunger?
its more of an ideological struggle. thinking muslim is a monolith and that the problem of every muslim in the world is the problem of every other muslim.
Though it might be good thinking that way, but it should be more in a peaceful way, rather than thinking killing kafir who oppress muslim takes you to paradise. There are more muslims being oppressed by muslims than muslims being oppressed by non muslims.

Faisal Shehzad belonged to KPK a most Conservative Province of Pakistan. There must be few bad think Imprint in his mind when he was growing up but that doesnt mean that his act could be relate to every other individual that follows Islam or belong to the region.

 

[Zarvan]

Since there is not a single nation that follow complete islamic systems, it wont be appropriate to label some one unislamic. If 100% muslim majority nations have not been able to implement the perfect islamic nizam then why blame individuals living in a muslim minority countries? 5 pillars are too basic but in the hands of an individual. Many loose canons dont even follow the 5 pillars and call for jihad from top of their voices.

Sorry unislamic remain unislamic and non Muslim majority country remains Darul Kufr. I am not blaming them but best option is migrate to Muslim majority but if they can't than avoid Haram as much as they can and in doing that they would have to clash with their governments many times

 

[Salik]

other than what @Mukunda Murthi Rao he or she i don't know but let me tell you more i think in the beginning i clarified that i am not targeting a religion for that because i even clarified that christianity is not an exception to this menace. If you talk about ISIS then you must be knowing that most of the people who joined ISIS are from developed and Christian dominated country. The people were well educated but they still got lured buy ISIS. This speaks for it that well educated are getting manipulated by extremists just as it is going on in Balawarpur. As you rightly pointed there are many such Madrassas then what will be the result of it . the result of it will be next ISIS or next Lal Masjid. The people in Pakistan have suffered heavily the people like you can change the face of Pakistan but you are being balanced by the people who don't agree with you and there are plenty of them.

Actually we aren't balanced, they're very few as compared to whole population of Pakistan. But there is problem like razor in monkey's hands, he will injure himself and other. How to locate and disarm that monky. We are giving them anaesthesia shot so that get the razor back without any further damage. Its really a delicate job.

 

[Mukunda Murthi Rao]

Actually we aren't balanced, they're very few as compared to whole population of Pakistan. But there is problem like razor in monkey's hands, he will injure himself and other. How to locate and disarm that monky. We are giving them anaesthesia shot so that get the razor back without any further damage. Its really a delicate job.

why not a mass movement against radicalisation?
It has happened in the past for our independence. Why not for independence from these mullahs and their radical islam?
If a big leader does say anything against these mullahs and their radical islam, he is termed as a traitor or a RAW agent and shunted out of society.
People like you are silent, while the radicals and propagating their ideology in every medium possible.

I have heard some talks by ambassador hussain haqqani, ayesha jalal and others who are concerned about pakistan's current state of affairs, but i feel nobody in pakistan cares to listen to them or other sane voices

 

[Gazi]

other than what @Mukunda Murthi Rao he or she i don't know but let me tell you more i think in the beginning i clarified that i am not targeting a religion for that because i even clarified that christianity is not an exception to this menace. If you talk about ISIS then you must be knowing that most of the people who joined ISIS are from developed and Christian dominated country. The people were well educated but they still got lured buy ISIS. This speaks for it that well educated are getting manipulated by extremists just as it is going on in Balawarpur. As you rightly pointed there are many such Madrassas then what will be the result of it . the result of it will be next ISIS or next Lal Masjid. The people in Pakistan have suffered heavily the people like you can change the face of Pakistan but you are being balanced by the people who don't agree with you and there are plenty of them.

Most people who Joined ISIS are from non Muslim Societies is not Correct. Most are still the Local Iraqis and Syrians who are LURED by Discrimination, Poverty, Illeteracy and other Social Vulnerabilities exist in Levant region due to Belief they follow. Those from Western Society are nothing but Born and Brought up with Identity Crisis and Ideological Confusions who were trying find the place they believe they would fit in and end up with these Monsters due mostly belong to Immature Age group.

Social Vulnerabilities are first Cause of existence of ISIS, Taliban etc while Ideologies are Second Cause of Existence. Even these Madarassas and its Mulvis are EXPLOITERS in the end for their PERSONAL INTEREST. There are many Example where these Mulvis ask their followers to take up weapons for defending Islam at the same time their Children are studying in some Western institutions so dont Muslims are Attracted to it as DUTY rather its actually Exploitations that most Improvised Countries are Vulnerable to. So we must stop treating as this is Problem due to Islam rather its Social Problem which all the Third World Countries are facing be it Muslim Countries or Latin America.

 

[syedali73]

Those who study and do research know this. Salafis and Wahabis are same but I can't do anything about your ignorance.

Compared to Salafism, Wahabism is a newer movement.

 

[Zarvan]

Compared to Salafism, Wahabism is a newer movement.

They are pretty much the same

 

[syedali73]

They are pretty much the same

Well, Salafis don't raze tombs to the ground, Wahabis do. Wahabism is more extreme in nature than Salafism.

 

[Zarvan]

Well, Salafis don't raise tombs to ground level, Wahabis do. Wahabism is more extreme in nature than Salafism.

Sir both are same those who raise the tombs to ground level if you will ask them they will call themselves Salafi. Their is no difference.

 

[Azad-Kashmiri]

You may ask him, but he won't tell you directly as he himself cannot differentiate between the two. In an earlier post he said he was a Salafi, and just minutes later in another post he said, he was a Wahhabi

I'm a sufi-Braveli and even we know Wahabi/Salafi/Ahal-Hadith are all the same. Please educate yourself. All of their scholars are the same.

Dont you get it, if there is only one muslim present, that land is called muslim land and should be free from non-muslim by force. Also according to them the entire belongs to muslims. Either non-muslims stay as second class citizen or should be eliminated by Jihad. got it ?

Give me evidence for this? Is America, Britain, Europe, S.America Muslim lands? Lets see evidences for what you say.

Islamic State... for a moment I thought ISIS. Can you tell me which muslim nations have complete islamic systems with regards to economic, legal, social and government systems? Is Pakistan a true islamic state in that sense? then whats that TTP wants to do in Pakistan?

There is NO Islamic state in the world.

 

[Amaa'n]

Disarming them is not an option, is it?

really sorry, forgot about your post
why should we? we may be going after TTP and alikes but our proxy war with India is still their, and need to keep them engaged in low level conflict in IOK......not until we have sorted out our mess on Western front & Balochistan.....