New Islamabad Airport Progress

[Bombaywalla]

The terminal looks good! Nice job with the facade.

 

[Luftwaffe]

And there should be a nuclear weapons duty free at the airport as well.

briefcase bums too...khudkash security as well.

 

[imiakhtar]

Not enough space between boarding bridges and not to mention that a380 would need 2+ boarding bridges

You don't need boarding bridges. You can board via a remote stand as Emirates does at Jeddah.

who's going to bring an A380 to Islamabad anyway?
Emirates is not stupid to use a long haul jet on a 2 hour flight.

As n-pak noted, airlines including Emiartes already use the A380 on short haul sectors.

and runway lengths.

Emirates airlines operated an A380 with an unrestricted commercial load from Birmingham International (BHX) to Dubai AND they took off with a tail wind so that the photographers could get the new international pier terminal in the background. BHX has a runway only 2599m in length and that flight taking into account international air routings is about 3200nm. I pray you tell, how is a 3000m runway going to pose a weight/performance restriction to an A380 when it has the ability to takeoff MTOW in less than that?

Ok so whats the point in not being able to accommodate a plane that is currently flying? Islamabad falls in the middle of long flights between Europe and South East Asia and Australia. These are routes where A380s fly the most. Islamabad airport can earn a lot of revenue if it those planes land here on transit.

most of these airplanes have air frame life limit, and a lot of it depends on the number of cycles.
Flying these large aircraft on shorter distances will decrease their life. Air frame will start to develop cracks and stress points much earlier in its age then its suppose to.

Whilst all the above is correct, as I noted in a different thread, your points below are incorrect.

But Emirates can do this, because they will renew their fleet every 8-10 years.

Anyway, they only keep their aircraft for 10 years or so, then they replace them. That's the policy they have now.

Emirates do not have a policy to turn their fleet over x number of years.

A330 average fleet age: 13 years
772/3 average age: 14.1 years (some 777s are over 17 years old - they were delivered in 1996)

The overall fleet age is kept low by the constant 77W and A380 deliveries. I have no doubts that Emirates will extend their leases on the 77W and A380 just as they have the A330/772-3 and fly them longer than 10 years.

The reason they 'can do this' ie "abuse" their 777 and A380 on short sectors is because they have the FLEXIBILITY to do so not because they lease their aircraft.

If the cycles start to quickly mount up on a 777/A380 doing short runs in the Mid-East, the fleet planners can switch it over to long haul ops.

 

[razgriz19]

You don't need boarding bridges. You can board via a remote stand as Emirates does at Jeddah.



As n-pak noted, airlines including Emiartes already use the A380 on short haul sectors.



Emirates airlines operated an A380 with an unrestricted commercial load from Birmingham International (BHX) to Dubai AND they took off with a tail wind so that the photographers could get the new international pier terminal in the background. BHX has a runway only 2599m in length and that flight taking into account international air routings is about 3200nm. I pray you tell, how is a 3000m runway going to pose a weight/performance restriction to an A380 when it has the ability to takeoff MTOW in less than that?





Whilst all the above is correct, as I noted in a different thread, your points below are incorrect.





Emirates do not have a policy to turn their fleet over x number of years.

A330 average fleet age: 13 years
772/3 average age: 14.1 years (some 777s are over 17 years old - they were delivered in 1996)

The overall fleet age is kept low by the constant 77W and A380 deliveries. I have no doubts that Emirates will extend their leases on the 77W and A380 just as they have the A330/772-3 and fly them longer than 10 years.

The reason they 'can do this' ie "abuse" their 777 and A380 on short sectors is because they have the FLEXIBILITY to do so not because they lease their aircraft.

If the cycles start to quickly mount up on a 777/A380 doing short runs in the Mid-East, the fleet planners can switch it over to long haul ops.

Emirates Ponders A380 Retirement Plan | Aviation International News

read this my friend.
And Secondly, BHX to DXB flight is under 7 hours, the aircraft was probably carrying half the fuel than it normally would for max take off weight. AND that makes a huge difference.
The only runway that A380 uses at pearson is about 3400m.

and as you can see here, there is only about 100m of runway left as it rotates. I know this place quite well.

 

[imiakhtar]

and as you can see here, there is only about 100m of runway left as it rotates. I know this place quite well

Enough said.

That alone tells me you don't understand the concept of balanced field length.

ead this my friend.

Perhaps you should heed your own advice:

Clark said no A380 in the fleet would be retired in less than 12 years.

 

[razgriz19]

Enough said.

That alone tells me you don't understand the concept of balanced field length.



Perhaps you should heed your own advice:

Clark said no A380 in the fleet would be retired in less than 12 years.

And he also said that's the longest lease they have.
773 will start to be retired from 2017. Keeping the fleet young.

I am very much aware of balanced field takeoff requirements.

He reached his V1 at the end of the runway. And if he decided to abort then what do you think would happen?

 

[imiakhtar]

and as you can see here, there is only about 100m of runway left as it rotates. I know this place quite well.

To follow on from that, I can only suggest you read the FAA pilot pilot handbook available here:

Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge

Also, if you go to my profile, you will find a post which includes a chart showing the A380's field performance and different weights and pressure altitudes. As I said, the A380 at MTOW - max take off weight only needs 9700ft.

If an aircraft has excess performance available, such as lower than MTOW take off weight or a long run way, then it is standard procedure to perform a reduced thrust takeoff. An A380 from new-york to dubai will take off at around 520 000kg. Couple that with 3000m+ runway then pilots will use reduced thrust takeoffs. These can result, depending on aircraft type, in a 25% thrust reduction. Obviously, if engine thrust is reduced then more runway shall be used.

More often than not therefore, when you see an aircraft using the entire runway, it is using reduced thrust. I can propvide you with B777 and 737 runway performance numbers if you wish. That should give you a good idea of the A380's performance capabilities as it has better field performance than all members of the 777 family.

I am very much aware of balanced field takeoff requirements.

Sorry but you are not. I shall explain why:

He reached his V1 at the end of the runway

V1 is the go/no go (abort) speed. You are confusing V1 with Vr. Vr is rotation speed which he performed at the end of the runway. V1 would have been about 3/4 of the runway length.

V speeds - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[razgriz19]

To follow on from that, I can only suggest you read the FAA pilot pilot handbook available here:

Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge

Also, if you go to my profile, you will find a post which includes a chart showing the A380's field performance and different weights and pressure altitudes. As I said, the A380 at MTOW - max take off weight only needs 9700ft.

If an aircraft has excess performance available, such as lower than MTOW take off weight or a long run way, then it is standard procedure to perform a reduced thrust takeoff. An A380 from new-york to dubai will take off at around 520 000kg. Couple that with 3000m+ runway then pilots will use reduced thrust takeoffs. These can result, depending on aircraft type, in a 25% thrust reduction. Obviously, if engine thrust is reduced then more runway shall be used.

More often than not therefore, when you see an aircraft using the entire runway, it is using reduced thrust. I can propvide you with B777 and 737 runway performance numbers if you wish. That should give you a good idea of the A380's performance capabilities as it has better field performance than all members of the 777 family.



Sorry but you are not. I shall explain why:



V1 is the go/no go (abort) speed. You are confusing V1 with Vr. Vr is rotation speed which he performed at the end of the runway. V1 would have been about 3/4 of the runway length.

Fair enough.
However, In that video, I'm pretty darn sure that A380 was going balls to walls. The only time it would use less thrust at takeoff is today. It is cold here in Toronto.
And Just for the record, I do understand how EPR works. I have taken one apart myself.

 

[imiakhtar]

And if he decided to abort then what do you think would happen

Also, I suggest that you do not use youtube vids as a reference when learning about aviation (unless the videos have the basis explained - airbus, boeing justplanes profile etc are fine)

There are numerous videos on youtube of Pakistan International Boeing 747s taking off at Manchester Airport. Many of these videos show rotation occurring near the end of the runway. As I said, if you understood V speeds, you would know that this is not necessarily dangerous. Why? Because performance calculations (tested by boeing and airbus pilots under FAR 25 regulations) mean that an aircraft has to be able to continue to takeoff with a critical engine failure after V1.

 

[razgriz19]

Also, I suggest that you do not use youtube vids as a reference when learning about aviation (unless the videos have the basis explained - airbus, boeing justplanes profile etc are fine)

There are numerous videos on youtube of Pakistan International Boeing 747s taking off at Manchester Airport. Many of these videos show rotation occurring near the end of the runway. As I said, if you understood V speeds, you would know that this is not necessarily dangerous. Why? Because performance calculations (tested by boeing and airbus pilots under FAR 25 regulations) mean that an aircraft has to be able to continue to takeoff with a critical engine failure after V1.

And that engine shall not be shut down until 300 ft altitude is achieved. ( i think its 300)
I'm not learning this stuff from youtube. Trust me.
I am studying Aircraft Maintenance Engineer. My teachers are experienced AMEs + most of them have pilot license and their own airplanes!

I may get a few things wrong, but i do have the grasp of basic idea about aviation. Flying part, maybe not so much.

P.S they dont teach us anything about takeoffs or runway requirements. that part i just learned by myself

 

[imiakhtar]

I'm pretty darn sure that A380 was going balls to walls.

Again, unless you're in the cockpit viewing the EIS, you can't tell what the engine thrust setting is. A some users here know, I fly a small aircraft around Europe when I have the time. If I'm light enough and use lower power, my pratt whitney sounds just the same at 75% as it does at 95-100%.

Lastly, another procedure pilots use when they have excess performance available is a lower flap setting to improve second segment climb performance which is another reason why you may see long haul aircraft taking up a lot of runway.

they dont teach us anything about takeoffs or runway requirements. that part i just learned by myself

Fair enough.

Aircraft performance is a complicated issue and even pilots struggle to get their heads around the concepts.

There is an aircraft performance procedure used on short runways which bamboozles a lot of people called a derated takeoff.

It is confusing because in some instances on very short runways, pilots can use a derated takeoff (lower thrust) to take off at a higher weight than they could with full thrust.

I will try and find some vids or sources explaining the concepts involved.

 

[imiakhtar]

Reduced Thrust Operations

Courtesy of boeing and smart cockpit

 

[Imran Khan]

new videos of current status here

 

[WishLivePak]

Any updates?

Why is there emergency runway? I have yet to find an airport with emergency runway. Besides, ISB doesn't get as much traffic as big airports, so it's second actual runway could always act like an emergency runway.

Also emirates has the old 777 because they don't require long runway as the new ERs. You won't see an ER landing at Pew, but still a 777 old one.

Emirates will extend lease where it deems fit. It might keep the old 777 to cater to airport with smaller runways. However, with the new 777 coming after 2020, it'd gradualy start replacing older fleet. Maybe it may replace the old 777 with new aircrafts requiring same length of runway, such as a330neo.

 

[imiakhtar]

Any updates?

Also emirates has the old 777 because they don't require long runway as the new ERs. You won't see an ER landing at Pew, but still a 777 old one.
.

This is incorrect.

The ER models both 777-200ER and -300ER have plenty braking power for Peshawar.

In regular airline operations, you only need 6000ft to stop a 777 ER. In an emergency, you could stop one in less than 3000ft.

Furthermore, at the take off weights Emirates is operating at between Dubai-Pakistan, the ER aircraft have better takeoff performance. Remember, there are two factors in determining an aircrafts field (takeoff) performance. Those are lift (wing area) and thrust.

The ER models all have more thrust than the 777-200A. Secondly, the 777-300ER has a bigger wing due to the raked wing tips which also means better field performance.