New Brahmos Test Fails

[Moscow]

Sir,
thanks for your information, you have impressive knowledge regarding Defense matters and i am witness of it. can you please elaborate why there was a need for "new version" or as earlier report said "new guidance system" right after 20 successful flights . For Old version it remained into testing phase.

yes i will tell you that sir whatever the world says about brahmos the real truth it its based on a russian platform which was later enhanced and updated jointly by the indians.
as you might also come to know through this very forum that russia is updating all its soviet era missile technology with new seeker and guidance system i will site the example of the famous russian s-300 air defence system which is being updated into the s-400 platform with various new tech.

as a result of constant upgradating new platforms are being tried out, not only in india russian missiles are constantly being tested in russia every month, many of them failed in primary tests to match all the parameters. recently russia tested hypersonic variant of its missile successfully but still you cannot induct it in . you need to test a new platform with various parameters in mind sometimes someparameters are met and the test is said successful and sometimes some are not met and its deemed unsuccessful.
also you need to test the missiles in different conditions,eg, inclined platform, vertical platform, maybe the inclined platform test was successful but the vertical launch failed so we need to work on the parameters.

the most important thing is that missiles are tested with various warheads and its performce and accuracy might vary.
with the advent of new enhanced technology we need to upgrade the whole sysytem so we need to do new tests with the new system to try an see if it can be in corporated.sometech might work well with one missile system but when you try to induct it into similar kind of missiles it fails to show similar effects.
i think sir now you can understand very well why it was tested even after 20 tests and i will not be surprised to see further testing.

missiles inducted in the 1980 s are still tried and tested from time to time to check parameters and results of upgrades.



maybe some professional missile expert can give you sir more technical details.
thanks.

 

[JK!]

Huh? Today an article in todays Dawn online newspaper said the test was successful.

 

[ahmeddsid]

Huh? Today an article in todays Dawn online newspaper said the test was successful.

it was said to be successful, but in the final stage some glitches occurred.

 

[Moscow]

Huh? Today an article in todays Dawn online newspaper said the test was successful.

sir there is an official confirmation from indian sources that all test parameters were not met.there are many reports posted here from indian sources which report a confirmation from indias DRDO and MILITARY brass.
thanx

 

[binzaman]

i think sir now you can understand very well why it was tested even after 20 tests and i will not be surprised to see further testing.

missiles inducted in the 1980 s are still tried and tested from time to time to check parameters and results of upgrades.
maybe some professional missile expert can give you sir more technical details.
thanks.

Thanx alot for your input. Still there is ambiguity in my mind. brahmos is still in testing and army was waiting for it and this failure will further delay the production process. what about its dependability and credibility during war?

 

[ahmeddsid]

Thanx alot for your input. Still there is ambiguity in my mind. brahmos is still in testing and army was waiting for it and this failure will further delay the production process. what about its dependability and credibility during war?

it is very credible with a conventional warhead and the previous guidance system.

 

[Moscow]

Thanx alot for your input. Still there is ambiguity in my mind. brahmos is still in testing and army was waiting for it and this failure will further delay the production process. what about its dependability and credibility during war?

sir you are right and i am not disagreeing with you .
anyone who claims that the missiles have a 100% accuracy and that it has never failed is nothing but only playing to the public.
if you see sir all countries including the US,CHINA,RUSSIA,GERMANY.UK, have failed in their missile tests from time to time .but have gone back to the drawing board and come up with better performance next time and it goes on, its a never ending saga.

sir it should be viewed as actually the test to intregate the new guidance system into brahmos is what has failed and not the missile in itselfthanx

 

[Beskar]

sir you are right and i am not disagreeing with you .
anyone who claims that the missiles have a 100% accuracy and that it has never failed is nothing but only playing to the public.
if you see sir all countries including the US,CHINA,RUSSIA,GERMANY.UK, have failed in their missile tests from time to time .but have gone back to the drawing board and come up with better performance next time and it goes on, its a never ending saga.


thanx

True. But it also has something to do with the fact that those countries were failing their Missile tests back in the day. They learned from them, and now create the technology that doesn't fail them. Now, if a nation is still going through failed tests on an yearly basis, there's definitely something wrong with their approach to the whole programme.

 

[Moscow]

True. But it also has something to do with the fact that those countries were failing their Missile tests back in the day. They learned from them, and now create the technology that doesn't fail them. Now, if a nation is still going through failed tests on an yearly basis, there's definitely something wrong with their approach to the whole programme.

sir if you read my earlier posts i have clearly stated that one of the countries in the last few years with the maximum failures in missiles tests has being russia itself.
why is it so happening its because they are experimenting too much with it, trying out new techs to incorporate.if you experiment you are bound to fail if in trials 10 different platforms are being tried only one materials into the final product incorporating all the positives from the 9 others.

there are 2 approaches to the whole thing you can built a missile try and test it and induct it into service and move on to the new system or you can try a missile and induct it and keep it the original form and keep on testing it with new additions to try and find if you can reach something even better in terms of its capabilities.
i think these are the 2 different approaches that are being followed by pakistan and india respectively.pakistan tries nad tests a missile and when its successful they induct it in and move on to develop a whole new missile range and platform altogether while indias approach is the other way . so you find more test failures incase of india than in pakistan.
both the approaches should be deemed as equally successful, its just the way of looking at things.
thanx

 

[binzaman]

~~~~

Lets see when our neighbors will have a dependable cruise missile

 

[Moscow]

~~~~

Lets see when our neighbors will have a dependable cruise missile

sir the missile which was tested is the land version of brahmos the original brahmos missile is the naval version<which was the original platform, and its performance and parameters are well appreciated worldwide> and is already incorporated into the indian navy its not the same as the one tested yesterday except for the name.
also a 3 rd variant is being tested in russia in that effect the indian air force has flown in 2 su-30mki to russia to try and incorporate the air to air version into it for trials and tests.

sir you would be mistaken if consider all of these to be the same thing.

thanks

 

[indiatech]

tests for a new Guidence mechanism for the Brahmos was conducted and it had failed. Nothing to do with missile failure.

And how does it mater if Army wants to test it in the desert as planned a few months back even before Mumbai attacks? What is this conspirecy theory going on that it was done to provoke pakistan? Do you think pak doesn't have analysts analyzing this ? Why would they fall into a boogietrap even if it is?

 

[Moscow]

~~~~

Lets see when our neighbors will have a dependable cruise missile

sir i will give you more facts from the original article posted by AM on page 5


On its part, Army has ordered two BrahMos regiments in the first phase at a cost of Rs 8,352 crore, with 134 missiles, 10 road-mobile autonomous launchers on 12x12 Tatra vehicles, four mobile command posts and the like, said sources.

The Navy, in turn, has ordered 49 BrahMos firing units at a cost of Rs 711 crore for now. All the tests of the BrahMos naval version, both anti-ship and land-attack ones, have been successful till now.

BrahMos was even fired successfully from a vertical launcher - the earlier tests were from 'inclined' launchers - fitted on Rajput-class destroyer INS Ranvir in Bay of Bengal last month.

The 'universal vertical launcher' is significant since it imparts the missile system with some stealth as well as the capability to be fired in any direction. It also paves the way for the integration of BrahMos missiles on submarines.


sir the final analysis :-
134 missiles for indian army.
47 units for navy
total money spend on induction :-8,352 + 711 crores.

capability of launches-= land,sea,air<on trials>
nuclear and conventional
supersonic.
platforms = vertical, inclined launch capability.



total 21 tests ( 20 successful 1 failure )
success % =95.238
actual success rate = approx 90% < you approx the total value of actual tests for field test values >

now sir show a me supersonic cruise missile in the world with a nuclear warhead with 90% test success and capable of being launched from sea, land and air , and you can judge for yourself if it is successful or not

 

[Lockheed F-16]

NEW DELHI: A supersonic cruise missile jointly developed by Russia and India failed to hit its target in a test previously reported as successful, Indian military scientists said Wednesday.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation, which on Tuesday claimed the test of the BrahMos missile had been a ‘total success,’ said the missile had flown only in the general direction of its target.

‘The missile performance was absolutely normal till the last phase, but it missed the target, though it maintained the direction,’ BrahMos project chief Sivathanu Pillai told the Press Trust of India.

The eight-metre (26-foot) missile weighs about three metric tonnes and can be launched from land, ships, submarines or aircraft, travelling at a speed of up to Mach 2.8.

It has a range of 290 kilometres (180 miles) and is designed to carry a conventional warhead.

The missile was fired from the Pokhran range in the western desert state of Rajasthan, bordering Pakistan that was also the site of India's nuclear tests in 1998.

The Times of India newspaper Wednesday suggested the failure was a result of an attempt to configure the missile to carry a nuclear warhead.

Pillai did not comment on the newspaper's report but said his scientists were trying to debug the guidance system of a missile that had been tested 20 times in the past eight years.

‘A new software used for this mission will be revalidated through extensive simulations and a flight trial will be carried out in a month's time to prove the augmented capabilities of the missile,’ he said.

India and Russia — its largest military supplier —hope to mass produce the BrahMos for export.

Nuclear-armed India, the largest arms buyer among emerging countries, has already begun arming its navy and army with the BrahMos as a tactical battlefield weapons system.

The missile is named after India's Brahmaputra River and Russia's Moskva River.

 

[Pk_Thunder]

India admits failed cruise missile test​

NEW DELHI: A supersonic cruise missile jointly developed by Russia and India failed to hit its target in a test previously reported as successful, Indian military scientists said Wednesday.
The Defence Research and Development Organisation, which on Tuesday claimed the test of the BrahMos missile had been a ‘total success,’ said the missile had flown only in the general direction of its target.
‘The missile performance was absolutely normal till the last phase, but it missed the target, though it maintained the direction,’ BrahMos project chief Sivathanu Pillai told the Press Trust of India.
The eight-metre (26-foot) missile weighs about three metric tonnes and can be launched from land, ships, submarines or aircraft, travelling at a speed of up to Mach 2.8.
It has a range of 290 kilometres (180 miles) and is designed to carry a conventional warhead.
The missile was fired from the Pokhran range in the western desert state of Rajasthan, bordering Pakistan that was also the site of India's nuclear tests in 1998.
The Times of India newspaper Wednesday suggested the failure was a result of an attempt to configure the missile to carry a nuclear warhead.
Pillai did not comment on the newspaper's report but said his scientists were trying to debug the guidance system of a missile that had been tested 20 times in the past eight years.
‘A new software used for this mission will be revalidated through extensive simulations and a flight trial will be carried out in a month's time to prove the augmented capabilities of the missile,’ he said.
India and Russia — its largest military supplier —hope to mass produce the BrahMos for export.
Nuclear-armed India, the largest arms buyer among emerging countries, has already begun arming its navy and army with the BrahMos as a tactical battlefield weapons system.
The missile is named after India's Brahmaputra River and Russia's Moskva River.