nEUROn stealth UCAV first drone in the world to fly in formation with other aircrafts !

[A.P. Richelieu]

Whether Truck or Ricshaw,

or state of the art UCAV...

the dirty games what SAAB is playing in India, makes me feel, that its better to keep distance from SAAB for Gripen. It could get a good chunk of order for the Sensors like Mission computer, LWR, MAWS, RWS for the combat Hellicopter fleet in India, but the way they are pushing the propaganda, paid news, CM of maharastra dying to setup plant for the Gripen Production unit near Nasik I don't want any more scandal just like Augasta westland and create the mess.

Marketing tricks are fair game, bribes aren't.

 

[zebra7]

or state of the art UCAV...

Marketing tricks are fair game, bribes aren't.

Best of luck for Brazil, Canada, Thailand, and do give some effort in Pakistan also, PAF might think about Gripen E, they are looking for fighter planes, and need the replacement of 300 planes and already is a customer of SAAB's AEW. In India, there Gripen C/D don't qualify for IAF, and for Gripen E, almost zero chance as Rafale have been selected for IAF. For Indian Navy Sea Gripen had to be developed, and LCA MK-2 is already been comitted, and Rafale-M holds high chances.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Best of luck for Brazil, Canada, Thailand, and do give some effort in Pakistan also, PAF might think about Gripen E, they are looking for fighter planes, and need the replacement of 300 planes and already is a customer of SAAB's AEW. In India, there Gripen C/D don't qualify for IAF, and for Gripen E, almost zero chance as Rafale have been selected for IAF. For Indian Navy Sea Gripen had to be developed, and LCA MK-2 is already been comitted, and Rafale-M holds high chances.

Pakistan will not be allowed to buy.

As long as the IAF shows an interest, I think SAAB will continue to market the plane in India.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...pen-fighter-aircraft/articleshow/52692277.cms

If Rafale was a certainty, then India and France would have had a contract and deliveries a long time ago.
The whole "Made in India" initiative is because the Rafale will not meet the needs at right cost.

Go ahead with an F-18, where India would possibly be the only new customer and pay for all updates?
Go ahead with an F-16, where India has to bring out a carrier version?
Go ahead with Gripen?
LCA is not a contender, this is for aircraft in addition to LCA.
Carrier needs can be fulfilled by joint venture with Brazil on Sea Gripen, or use LCA Mk 2 whenever available in 10 years time (same for F-16). "Made in India" does not have to supply the carrier aircraft..

 

[zebra7]

Pakistan will not be allowed to buy.

So you have to take the permission from the USA, is it your Plane, or not. That means if the U.S could affects the future service and spares, if tention arises between India and US

As long as the IAF shows an interest, I think SAAB will continue to market the plane in India.

You misunderstood me, IAF is interested in SAAB's Sensors and Mission computer for hellicopters, and the Gripen is rejected for good.

As long as the IAF shows an interest, I think SAAB will continue to market the plane in India.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...pen-fighter-aircraft/articleshow/52692277.cms

That's called the Paid news. Did Air Chief said anything on the IAF interest in Gripen. And how a deal is made in India, google the whole bureaucratic procedure and rest assure, even if the IAF chief is personally interested, it is of no use.

If Rafale was a certainty, then India and France would have had a contract and deliveries a long time ago.
The whole "Made in India" initiative is because the Rafale will not meet the needs at right cost.

Big order, takes time -- to cut short, India is demanding much more than Rafale. For your sake in symbolic hint

1. Rafale + Scorpean for UAE and India and India for the spares, support, MRO and upgrade hub for the Asian and Africal customer.
2. nUERON + Aura Stealth UAV + M88
3. Nuclear Reactor + MICA based Quick reaction SAM.

Go ahead with an F-18, where India would possibly be the only new customer and pay for all updates?

India, don't have the interest to market the US product in an international market. The commonality with IAF rafale will be more with the Rafale F3R of IAF. And for IAF the need is the Rafale which could fly at low level with high load and have high G limit, which F-18 don't have.

Go ahead with an F-16, where India has to bring out a carrier version?

F-16 don't have the Carrier version, and being a single engine F-16 don't have the central Keel, thus required serious fuserlarge modification and India already have MIG-29K, a much safer and economical bet.

Go ahead with Gripen?

It don't qualify our needs -- For high end, its already Rafale, for Cheaper end LCA is there, which gave much economical benifits, Technology benifits, and freedom to change as per our own need.

LCA is not a contender, this is for aircraft in addition to LCA.

Then why not more Mirrage UPG

Or

Carrier needs can be fulfilled by joint venture with Brazil on Sea Gripen, or use LCA Mk 2 whenever available in 10 years time (same for F-16). "Made in India" does not have to supply the carrier aircraft..

There is no Sea Gripen prototype yet. For LCA Naval version check the recent pics

.



OK cut short.

1. India already have large number of Multirole heavy fighter plane Su 30 MKI -- 270, and the number will go upto 350.
Those will get Midlife upgrade which will include Bars AESA upgrade.

2. Mirrage 2000, Jaguar IS/IM, and Mig 29 with 2, 3, and 3 squardon respectively around 200 total would get upgrade and will give service till 2035.

3. Rafale would be inducted in large number of which 36 would be in fly away condition and 90 license build -- 126 till 2030 with total number to be 189

4. LCA -- 120 ordered and most probably 120 more of MK-2 making it around 250

5. Combat Hawk -- Say around 100

Now add all the numbers,

Now add FGFA, and AMCA , who where is the need for another fighter plane Sir Jee.

Second with MKI, Rafale, Mig 29K, LCA , FGFA, will have AESA mmr, making it 5 Aesa different tyes of Radar, and adding another one, with another different Radar, would only add the economical burden and maintainance nightmare.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So you have to take the permission from the USA, is it your Plane, or not. That means if the U.S could affects the future service and spares, if tention arises between India and US

That's called the Paid news. Did Air Chief said anything on the IAF interest in Gripen. And how a deal is made in India, google the whole bureaucratic procedure and rest assure, even if the IAF chief is personally interested, it is of no use.

Big order, takes time -- to cut short, India is demanding much more than Rafale. For your sake in symbolic hint
...
India, don't have the interest to market the US product in an international market. The commonality with IAF rafale will be more with the Rafale F3R of IAF. And for IAF the need is the Rafale which could fly at low level with high load and have high G limit, which F-18 don't have.
...
F-16 don't have the Carrier version, and being a single engine F-16 don't have the central Keel, thus required serious fuserlarge modification and India already have MIG-29K, a much safer and economical bet.
...
It don't qualify our needs -- For high end, its already Rafale, for Cheaper end LCA is there, which gave much economical benifits, Technology benifits, and freedom to change as per our own need.

Now add all the numbers,

Now add FGFA, and AMCA , who where is the need for another fighter plane Sir Jee.

Second with MKI, Rafale, Mig 29K, LCA , FGFA, will have AESA mmr, making it 5 Aesa different tyes of Radar, and adding another one, with another different Radar, would only add the economical burden and maintainance nightmare.

Pakistan will not be able to buy due to Swedish Export laws, which limits sales of offensive weapons to countries with stable democracies.
The U.S. does not have anything to do with that decision.
EriEye is considered a different class of equipment, and there are not as strict rules.

"Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had recently said India will select a good fighter by the end of this fiscal year to be made domestically. It is not yet decided which aircraft it would be, he had said adding it may be F18, Rafale, Eurofighter or Gripen.
"The decision in this regard will be taken in this fiscal year," he had asserted."

That is reported by many press sources in India. I guess all of them are paid by SAAB including the defense minister.
If he actually said so, your claim is that he is lying, because India has already decided for the Rafale.

 

[C130]

isn't the X-47B capable of this?

 

[Taygibay]

isn't the X-47B capable of this?

Actually, the answer is : it could / could have! However ...
the attempt wasn't made and part of the publicity stunt
on Dassault's part was timing. By doing it first, they show
that they are up to date on UCAV tech.

I.E. no one in the Northrop Grumman labs lost their jobs ...
but some folks in the marketing dept might have?

GN, Tay.

 

[C130]

Actually, the answer is : it could / could have! However ...
the attempt wasn't made and part of the publicity stunt
on Dassault's part was timing. By doing it first, they show
that they are up to date on UCAV tech.

I.E. no one in the Northrop Grumman labs lost their jobs ...
but some folks in the marketing dept might have?

GN, Tay.

I'll give to the French they won on the cinematic front.

but X-47B bigger better beast than nEUron so it's all good

 

[zebra7]

"Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had recently said India will select a good fighter by the end of this fiscal year to be made domestically. It is not yet decided which aircraft it would be, he had said adding it may be F18, Rafale, Eurofighter or Gripen.
"The decision in this regard will be taken in this fiscal year," he had asserted."

That aircraft is Rafale -- Is it difficult to understand. Wait till December this year, the deceleration would be made for the Make in India Rafale F3R around 90 in first Tranche.

What is been discussed is the future upgrades of M88, and Brahmos Mini/NG, and IAF specific munition integration in Rafale, QRSAM (VL MICA) and Scorpean deal.

 

[Djinn]

Pakistan will not be allowed to buy.

Even if Pakistan ever was interested in Gripen more than a decade back(Based on dubious claims by the Swedes) , that all remains a thing of the past. Now that Pakistan has JF-17, Gripen isn't even worth a thought, let alone buying.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

That aircraft is Rafale -- Is it difficult to understand. Wait till December this year, the deceleration would be made for the Make in India Rafale F3R around 90 in first Tranche.

What is been discussed is the future upgrades of M88, and Brahmos Mini/NG, and IAF specific munition integration in Rafale, QRSAM (VL MICA) and Scorpean deal.

There is no difficulty understanding anything.
The issue is if to trust a keyboard warrior or the Defense Minister of India.
The Defense Minister says that India "will select".
If the decision is already taken, then India is the one playing dirty.

Even if Pakistan ever was interested in Gripen more than a decade back(Based on dubious claims by the Swedes) , that all remains a thing of the past. Now that Pakistan has JF-17, Gripen isn't even worth a thought, let alone buying.

Block III, which, Insh Allah, might have as good datalink as Gripen C is not here yet.
Until then, I am afraid JF-17 is cannon (or Meteor) fodder.

 

[Djinn]

There is no difficulty understanding anything.
The issue is if to trust a keyboard warrior or the Defense Minister of India.
The Defense Minister says that India "will select".
If the decision is already taken, then India is the one playing dirty.


Block III, which, Insh Allah, might have as good datalink as Gripen C is not here yet.
Until then, I am afraid JF-17 is cannon (or Meteor) fodder.

For these comparisons (Especially cyber dogfights) we already have a dedicated thread, so I'll leave it at that . Point was Pakistan has it's own platform and while it may not be as capable (as some think), it is getting there really fast......So Pakistan will not opt for a platform which offers negligible advantages just like Gripen.

 

[mike2000 is back]

I'll give to the French they won on the cinematic front.

but X-47B bigger better beast than nEUron so it's all good

TRUE, but that's just for now though, since France and Britain are both developing a far more advanced heavy stealth UCAV bomber which will be at par/if not better than one you people have at the moment. if there is any country(outside the U.S obviously) who has the technological capabilities,skills and experience in building such a complex aircraft then its Britain and France.



BAE systems looks beyond the Typhoon to F-35 program, drones.

Sales from the Lockheed-led program are expected to jump in

A Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jet, produced by BAE Systems, at the 2014 Farnborough International Airshow in the U.K.PHOTO: SIMON DAWSON/BLOOMBERG NEWS

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By Robert Wall
June 9, 2016 7:01 p.m. ET
SAMLESBURY, U.K.—After more than a decade in which building Eurofighter Typhoon jet fighters has been the backbone of BAE Systems PLC’s combat aircraft production, the defense company is shifting its focus to the new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and what may come next.

BAE Systems expects sales from the Lockheed Martin Corp. -led F-35 program to jump in coming years as its work on the program surpasses production of the Typhoon combat jet, Chris Boardman, managing director of the British arms maker’s military air and information systems unit, said.

With its role on the F-35 limited to being a key supplier and the only non-American Tier 1 partner, the British weapons maker also is trying to retain its ability to lead future combat aircraft developments to remain a top-tier military plane maker.

BAE is working with other U.K. and French firms to develop a stealthy combat drone that could surveil and strike ground targets. A small group of engineers also is exploring what a future air-superiority combat plane might look like, Mr. Boardman said, though fielding such a system may take another two decades. BAE also is supporting Turkey’s indigenous combat aircraft development program called TFX.

The Franco-British combat drone program, through which both countries hope to keep up with more advanced U.S. developments, received a boost in March when U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron and French President François Hollande pledged €2 billion ($2.3 billion) to develop a drone to fly around 2025 and potentially enter production a few years later. “It is the most advanced program of its kind,” Martin Rowe-Willcocks, head of for future programs at the BAE Systems unit, told reporters.

BAE system's Taranis stealth drone puctured alongside a RAF typhoon. Costing £185m Taranis will be a testbed for the future of UK unmanned fighter jets, it’s capable of not only carrying out surveillance but also engaging in air-to-air combat and air-to-surface combat as well


BAE Systems is building on experience gained using a smaller combat drone test aircraft, the Taranis, which first flew in Australia in 2013. It may take to the skies again to validate technologies for the Anglo-French program, which also involves companies such as France’s Dassault Aviation SA, and engine makers Rolls-Royce Holdings PLC and Safran SA .

The nearer-term focus for BAE Systems, though, is on boosting output on parts it makes for the F-35 fighter, including the rear fuselage, which is shipped to Lockheed’s assembly facility in Fort Worth, Texas. The British company built almost 50 rear-fuselage sections last year and expects to produce around 160 when output peaks after 2020. U.S. and international buyers could purchase more than 3,000 of the jets.

Mr. Boardman said sales from designing, building and other F-35 activities should reach around 25% of the military aircraft unit’s revenue around that time. The unit had £4 billion ($5.8 billion) in sales last year.

Making F-35 parts gives BAE Systems about 10% of value on each of the planes that currently cost around $110 million or more depending on the version. The company also is involved in providing some of the sophisticated electronics, adding another 3% to 5% of sales.

U.S. Marine Corps F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters are shown in 2013 during a training exercise over eastern California.PHOTO: LCPL. RAQUEL BARRAZA/PLANET PIX/ZUMA PRESS

RBC Capital analyst Robert Stallard said Thursday that “the F-35 should be a major driver of revenue and earnings growth for Lockheed Martin, the prime contractor, and key suppliers like BAE Systems and Northrop Grumman over the rest of this decade and beyond.” BAE Systems should see its £600 million annual F-35 sales grow to £1.5 billion over the next five years.

How large annual F-35 sales will be for BAE depends on the share of the lucrative spares and maintenance work for the plane the company can win, Mr. Boardman said. It is a business where the partners in building the jet can compete fiercely. BAE Systems has secured an agreement to provide heavy maintenance of the jet in Australia and is working with Northrop Grumman Corp. in Europe to secure component repair contracts.

“The big unknown from our perspective will be how much of the support market we get,” Mr. Boardman said.

The Pentagon estimates it will cost about $1.5 trillion to buy and operate the F-35 over more than 50 years. The plane currently is in service only with the U.S. Marine Corps, which operates a jump-jet version. The U.S. Air Force this year also may declare the plane ready for limited operational use, with others to join later.

Even as the F-35 becomes a bigger earnings contributor at BAE Systems, the company still is pursuing overseas sales for its twin-engine Typhoon fighter it builds in cooperation with Airbus Group SE and Leonardo-Finmeccanica SpA.

Mr. Boardman said the sales success of the Typhoon with Saudi Arabia, Oman and, most recently, Kuwait has fostered “a whole surge of interest” among other Gulf Cooperation Council countries.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/bae-looks-beyond-the-typhoon-to-f-35-program-drones-1465513262

 

[Blue Marlin]

So you have to take the permission from the USA, is it your Plane, or not. That means if the U.S could affects the future service and spares, if tention arises between India and US

dont forget us, we have a 20% work share in the gripen thats why argentina does not have the gripen, because of us.

You misunderstood me, IAF is interested in SAAB's Sensors and Mission computer for hellicopters, and the Gripen is rejected for good.

which choppers are these for? the way the lca is going you may not have a choice. no new on the current line production increase and the second line is only a thought on a piece of paper you guys need a lot og fighters and so many of one type is too much about 126 gripens will be sufficent along will 100+ lca's

That's called the Paid news. Did Air Chief said anything on the IAF interest in Gripen. And how a deal is made in India, google the whole bureaucratic procedure and rest assure, even if the IAF chief is personally interested, it is of no use.

so what was your acm doing in sweden then?he's flown it
http://www.financialexpress.com/art...the-fighter-jet-can-meet-indias-needs/283263/

Big order, takes time -- to cut short, India is demanding much more than Rafale. For your sake in symbolic hint

1. Rafale + Scorpean for UAE and India and India for the spares, support, MRO and upgrade hub for the Asian and Africal customer.
2. nUERON + Aura Stealth UAV + M88
3. Nuclear Reactor + MICA based Quick reaction SAM.

what are you on about? they only take a long time during evaluations and negoations. evaluations went throught without a hitch but negoations with dassault were awful and plagued. now the nm government has scrapped it as persueing of the shelf purchase to cool the heat and co production later on.
neuron is being developed with us as well as per agreement with french. the uae is not buying the scopene and the rafale is not confirmed yet @Khafee any news on the uae and the rafale ?

India, don't have the interest to market the US product in an international market. The commonality with IAF rafale will be more with the Rafale F3R of IAF. And for IAF the need is the Rafale which could fly at low level with high load and have high G limit, which F-18 don't have.

F-16 don't have the Carrier version, and being a single engine F-16 don't have the central Keel, thus required serious fuserlarge modification and India already have MIG-29K, a much safer and economical bet.

really what about the f-2 from japan? which has larger wings and all you need to work on is the folding wings and the landing gear.

It don't qualify our needs -- For high end, its already Rafale, for Cheaper end LCA is there, which gave much economical benifits, Technology benifits, and freedom to change as per our own need.

so the rafale is better then the f18 ?

OK cut short.

1. India already have large number of Multirole heavy fighter plane Su 30 MKI -- 270, and the number will go upto 350.
Those will get Midlife upgrade which will include Bars AESA upgrade.

2. Mirrage 2000, Jaguar IS/IM, and Mig 29 with 2, 3, and 3 squardon respectively around 200 total would get upgrade and will give service till 2035.

3. Rafale would be inducted in large number of which 36 would be in fly away condition and 90 license build -- 126 till 2030 with total number to be 189

4. LCA -- 120 ordered and most probably 120 more of MK-2 making it around 250

5. Combat Hawk -- Say around 100

Now add all the numbers,

Now add FGFA, and AMCA , who where is the need for another fighter plane Sir Jee.

Second with MKI, Rafale, Mig 29K, LCA , FGFA, will have AESA mmr, making it 5 Aesa different tyes of Radar, and adding another one, with another different Radar, would only add the economical burden and maintainance nightmare.

1. i know your going for mki's

2. the upgraded mk2's will have more life in them. the jags need to go by around 2030 a they are very old even the older birds will have very stressed out airframes even with upgrades they will have about 15 yeas max on them.

4. who knows how long would that take hence the propersation for gripens.

5. why you buying more hawks? whats wrong with the hjt-36?

 

[zebra7]

The Defense Minister says that India "will select".
If the decision is already taken, then India is the one playing dirty.

The DM says the India will select the fighter plane to build in India under Make in India, And 36 rafale in flyaway condition deal is separate from it. And BTW, congratullation for the latest Declaration of 100 percentage of Direct foriegn Investment Possible in Aero Defence, now the SAAB can invest and build a plant in India, and produce Gripen C/D or E and you don't need any Indian partner of any percentage. Happy Now.

dont forget us, we have a 20% work share in the gripen thats why argentina does not have the gripen, because of us.

The conversation you are quoting is a small part of the discussion between me and @A.P. Richelieu and you jump in between.

BTW Argentina does not have the Gripen due to your 20% of work share in the Gripen, rather due to the IPRs of various OEMs in various critical subsystems of Gripen like BAE and back out when UK told Argentina that they holds many IPRs in Gripen.

which choppers are these for? the way the lca is going you may not have a choice. no new on the current line production increase and the second line is only a thought on a piece of paper you guys need a lot og fighters and so many of one type is too much about 126 gripens will be sufficent along will 100+ lca's

HAL Rudra Gunship. Could compete in LCH and Surveillance and Electronic warfare aircraft and air defence systems.

And for lot of fighters you don't need high end costly Gripen, rather Cheaper and if Indigenous to suffix the role of CAS and Interceptor a replacement of MIG 21 till 2025 and MIG-27 starting from 2018. And why we don't have any choice, 120 LCA MK-1 have been ordered and HAL now after getting order is going to increase the production rate up to 16 unit per year.

And for your "and so many of one type is too much about 126 gripens will be sufficent along will 100+ lca's" which actually is the low tier MIG 21 and MIG 27 precise around 300 numbers, you added 126 Gripen.


Did you forgot the modernization and upgradation of 62 upgraded MiG-29s to SMT standard– 54 single-seat fighters and 8 trainers along with the 51 Mirage-2000 UPG to standard of Mirage 2005 would convert them from air Superiority Aircraft to full Multirole Capability which will fulfill the Middle tier of Multirole combat aircraft, along with 110 Jaguar IS/IM Darin 3 whose Deep strike role would be filled by the Rafale F3R will get the role of Ground attack replacement of MIG-27.

For the Upper Tier along with the Rafale F3R, there is 270 Su30 MKI, which will be deep upgraded to Super Sukhoi Su30MKI which will include Bars AESA, Internal Vergilus AESA jammer same of the EF-2000, Brahmos NG, and various subsystem upgrade from the developments of PAK FA and around One Squardon build per year by HAL in India. And 40 more MKI are ordered and if 40 more for the Strategic Command the total order would be around 350, and if needed, few squadron could be ordered directly from Russia in fly away condition in much cheaper cost.

Did you forgot which country is the biggest operator of the BAE Hawk MK 132 trainer -- 126 on order of which 90 in service plus 20 for the Superlative Aerobatic Team replacing Kiran 2 of the IAF alone, and include the Indian Navy too, and then check the JV of HAL and BAE of Combat Hawk, which will roll out its first plane up to FEB 2017.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...yes-export-potential/articleshow/50954358.cms

http://www.defenceupdate.in/combat-hawk-weaponizing-hal-built-hawk-trainer-aircraft/

And explain why such Combat Hawk equipped with IRST and Laser range finder with 2 fuel tank and tandem fitted on multiarm pylon Spice 250 light wt PGM could not fulfill the CAS and tactical support role.

For Naval role P8i whose requirement is upto 24, U2

For AEW EC -- Israeli cum russian cum Ukrainian Phalcon -- which would be raised to 12, and DRDO Embeaur AEW, and DRDO 360 degree Dome type based on Airbus platform

For Unmanned -- Israeli and may be American Avenger

For Tanker fleet -- AL-32MKI and Airbus tanker

For Army Aviation -- Rudra Gunship, Apache

For Airforce rotatory -- LCH, LUH

For Stealth fighter plane -- FGFA

For transport fleet -- C-17, C-170

And all this is going to be fullfilled and fixed by SAAB ?????????????????????????????????

P.S -- The total number of Squardon of fixed wing combat plane would be raised to 64, for two front war.

Do you still thinks we have no other choice other than SAAB.

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA Brother pls notify me if I forgot something.

so what was your acm doing in sweden then?he's flown it
http://www.financialexpress.com/art...the-fighter-jet-can-meet-indias-needs/283263/

@PARIKRAMA would you like to answer this question ?

what are you on about? they only take a long time during evaluations and negoations. evaluations went throught without a hitch but negoations with dassault were awful and plagued. now the nm government has scrapped it as persueing of the shelf purchase to cool the heat and co production later on.

There is a procedure for the procurement of any weapon system in India, which not include the USER here in case IAF which notify the requirement, and does technical evaluation and report to MOD, A MOD/RM which negotiates the deal pricing and the Finance Department that allocate the funds required for the deal.

No person either Defense Minister, PM Modi, President of India can sign the deal, without following this procedure directly leave aside Air Chief of IAF.

neuron is being developed with us as well as per agreement with french.

So, what ?? We are interested in AURA not nUERON and by the way its the Tech demonstrator for study, the real UAV for french and UK would be developed on the basis of it to fulfill each air force requirement respectively.

the uae is not buying the scopene and the rafale is not confirmed yet @Khafee any news on the uae and the rafale ?

May be may be not but discussion for long term planning takes long time, but how did you came to the conclussion that UAE is not buying the Scorpion and the talks does not includes the AIP and HEU Nuclear PWR for SUBS or Nuclear carrier for Indian Navy.