Need for a Strike Aircraft (JH-7) for Naval Aviation

[Viper0011.]

Actually it is the B version of the JH7 that is going into production---so we should call it the JH7B---. It is not a fighter aircraft---but more of a bomber which when upgraded with the aesa radar can launch wvr and bvr missiles for its protection if needed.

But its main role is that of a bomber in the current scenario---. Where the opponent will have the SU30 launch its heavy air to surface missile brahmos----we also need a platform to have a similar capability of strike.

If the current surface to surface launch Babur missile is 700 km---then when launched from and aircraft during flight---it could be around a 1000 km range---and suddenly our strike capabilities are in a different time zone..

But JFT block II (and III specifically) can do this, with AESA, and with more hard points and the missiles can be launched 300 KM away meaning the range extends out to 1000 for missiles with 700 KM range. Why adapt a new plane with its own support, maintenance, different and older tech base (SU-25)? When you can have a much better home built platform?

The block III should have more wing space and hard points so it would hold more anti-ship missiles if that's the key issue. Also remember, the Chinese are releasing a couple of heavier engines soon so you'll solve the TWR issue too, in case you want to carry heavier loads, and multiple anti-ship missiles. When you have something (JFT block II and III), as good as 80-90% of the -16 block 52, then why not use your own products and modify them per the role / requirement?

At least, between the JFT, FC-20 and J-11's technical components, there are lot of similarities and the same labor can be retrained to support an additional jet out of the three given above easily. All three of the above, come from the current Chinese tech and manufacturing processes; even though the process originally included design influences from others.

So Pakistan should be easily able to internally build components to support any one of the three jets provided above, as its already using the same manufacturing system for the JFT. To support FC-20 or the J-11, you'll have to reconfigure the same manufacturing equipment or put another assembly line elsewhere and train more people much faster as the manufacturing processes remain the same to the majority of the degree, only system and machine configuration and specifications will change. Re-usability and quick adaption is the key here.

Pakistan does need other platforms, but outside of a must have J-31, how about getting more -16's for now, building on the JFT to block II, and ALSO, acquire either J-11D or SU-35's? (or worse case, FC-20)?

I'd favor J-11D as you could get a better price, no issues with local support and equipment manufacturing and it'll train and orient PAF for a future J-31 acquisition (heavy twin engine). And it can provide the same or somewhat better capability compared to the SU-30 (specially with the AESA radar, etc). Just my two cents.

 

[ZAC1]

Pakistan is not going to purchase any new platform
They will stick with Jf-17

 

[Viper0011.]

Pakistan is not going to purchase any new platform
They will stick with Jf-17

They are. Just watch for just a year or two. You'll be surprised. Come say thank you when you read about it

 

[princefaisal]

J-11D or Su-35 is best for naval forces. However JF-17 block-II or III will be the other option.

 

[MastanKhan]

Babar at this stage has two applications.

1: Ground TEL launched varient deployed to take out tier-1 static enemy infrastructure.

2: Under development variant Babur-N, with extended range to 1000km and submarine launch capabilities using torpedo tubes.

I think that after the successful integration of these variants we might see a Coastal Defense variant which would have updated sensor suite and targeting system for anti shipping roles at extended ranges. That role is currently served by TEL mounted C-602A Coastal Defense System which doesn't have enough range to take out wide area targets. Babur can solve this issue.

Hi,

For babur cruise missile---the most important one would be the one launched by an aircraft----along with the naval version.

If the naval launch version would have 1000km range---then that same missile launched by an aircraft would have at least 1300---to 1500 km range----.

So be it J 11 or JH7B----paf must have something that has the capacity to carry 8000---10000 kg of weapons load in strike mode---.

 

[Sine Nomine]

@mastan khan Bahi jan what are you doing,

you know we have habit of brushing under carpet...Jft...Jft...even some idiots claim it will make to 5th Gen,In navel Mission it will have those two Tanks which weight 2400kg and use half of there fuel to counter drag they create and then Anti ship missiles 2x and self defense equipment what it will do with that small Radar,A ship will be detected at longer range then Aircraft but note that it will a huge ECM suite.It will not be carrying a small pod to defend it.
What JH-7 can do JFT can never do,what JFT can do JH-7 can't do,we need to understand this Multi role platforms have there limits.

 

[al_asad_al_mulk]

Now that we have established that such a platform is required, we might as well have a separate thread to discuss it.

JH-7, having an AESA radar and HOBS capability seems like a good (maybe our only realistic) option.

Such a platform while having a good payload, will also relieve PAF, which will obviously have its hands full in a future conflit.

Aye or Nay?

@Horus @Hyperion @MastanKhan @Dazzler @Oscar @araz

As per my best knowledge PN has no palns to induct special strike air craft even same JF-17 will serve PN.

 

[fatman17]

JF 17 is more than adequate for the maritime strike role. it can carry 2 C802 ashm or 1 AKG400 ashm.

 

[Viper0011.]

@mastan khan Bahi jan what are you doing,

you know we have habit of brushing under carpet...Jft...Jft...even some idiots claim it will make to 5th Gen,In navel Mission it will have those two Tanks which weight 2400kg and use half of there fuel to counter drag they create and then Anti ship missiles 2x and self defense equipment what it will do with that small Radar,A ship will be detected at longer range then Aircraft but note that it will a huge ECM suite.It will not be carrying a small pod to defend it.
What JH-7 can do JFT can never do,what JFT can do JH-7 can't do,we need to understand this Multi role platforms have there limits.

LOL, this is funny. I did want to correct the last part of the paragraph. What the JH7 can do, JFT can do too. You JUST need to give it time to mature. What the JFT can do, JH-7 can't do as it's wiring and plumbing has already been modifed. This was a SU-25 tech being modified. But if the JFT block III can be redesigned larger, a brand new 4th gen system will have future expansion too. Obviously a larger wind area and hard-points, similar to where the -16 is. So that's PLENTY of new additions to make the JFT lift more and inflict more damage. It may not do 9 ton of Ordnance but it would do 6 and that still includes 2-4 ASM's......very close with JH-7 in capability yet much more modern and with room for further upgrades.

 

[Shabi1]

The new JH-7 version is expected to be really good and has greater range and payload compared to Sukhoi's (Chinese clones/Russian offer), but PN doesnt need naval strike aircraft at the moment.

The P-3C can carry a massive Harpoon payload and future Y-8ASW version can compliment it. PN's offensive strategy isto rely on submarines which are much more deadlier than aircraft and can operate in hostile waters for maximum lethality.

Coming near Pakistani waters would be suicide in presence of PN's attack submarines for an IN aircraft carrier hence it is unlikely that it will be able to deploy carrier based fighters against PN.

PAF is doing well with it's strategy of replacing older platforms with a customizable JF-17s and MLUed F-16s. With JF-17s being the cheaper to operate multirole workhorse and F-16s as strike/area denial aircraft. There is a need for a high end air superiority fighter but that could be met with SU-35s, FC-20s or J-31s depending on threat urgency. So just need to wait and see things are turning out well.

 

[Thunder.Storm]

A navalized JF-17 will do the job needed.

Please explain navalized JF-17 ? What's in your mind about it.

 

[Sine Nomine]

This was a SU-25 tech being modified.

Jh-7 is same as F-111 aardvark and Su-24 which are attack aircraft/interdictor a.k.a DAS Aircraft but su-25 you are mention in other threads also is this one is CAS(close air support) Aircraft.Both Su-25 and Jh-7 have no comparison.

 

[New Resolve]

Besides the Mirages at Karachi have air to air refuelling pods now as per Usman Shabbir at Pakdef.

 

[Zarvan]

Now that we have established that such a platform is required, we might as well have a separate thread to discuss it.

JH-7, having an AESA radar and HOBS capability seems like a good (maybe our only realistic) option.

Such a platform while having a good payload, will also relieve PAF, which will obviously have its hands full in a future conflit.

Aye or Nay?

@Horus @Hyperion @MastanKhan @Dazzler @Oscar @araz

JH-7 B if turns out to be a great Fighter Jet can be an option but our first focus should be getting either SU-35 or J-11 D than if needed go for JH-7 B for both Navy and Air Force with main Goal of deep strikes inside India.

 

[leftfordead]

Price will not be more than 20 Million USD Approx of it Latest Version JH-7B which is a different Beast.
I

well i highly doubt that price .. 20Million $ , our JF is 25-30 M $ ...
if its true than we should get 2 sqs , one for navy and one for PAF , we cant put everything on JF , but assigning different roles to it ..