Nawaz government poised to see off power outages

[maxpayne]

Lolz, no dear, it is NOT me who is comparing to the past regimes. I just quoted Musharaf time to point out how wrong we are when we compare the current situation to the one in PPP time. I did mentioned that in the post as well.
I am simply pointing out the issues in our distribution network and a question that will it be able to handle the claimed power increase? the second part of my inquiry was related to long term future plans for cheap electricity, thinking beyond the LPG and LNG plants! Do not know what is there in the post that was confusing.

I think they are planning to be versatile in energy sector. Each type generation have some limitations

1)Hydro need large funds and takes lot of time for building which can be later hijacked by IK
2)Solar only work at day time
3)Wind varies throughout the day (still need large investment)
4)Nuclear have its own limitations like access, world politics, fuel etc
5)Furnace oil is fast to develop and have lower capital cost but per unit is expensive
6)LNG is so so in everything. Medium in capital cost, rate per unit also little higher, no restriction on LNG supply, higher maintenance costs

For your first question: Generations usually have their grid within the project, for transmission they are built near National Transmission Line also known as National Grid. Once it is on National Grid, it can be sent anywhere. Further, i have heard there are many transmission lines in pipeline as well other than CPEC. Only in karachi there are around 2x 220kV and 5x 132kV line in under process. For distribution, it is a local system which is normally sufficient for existing population density, but in case a city spreads out, more 11kV cables and PMTs can be easily installed which are not much expensive.

For your second question:
Short Term Plan:
Running Furnace oil plants and IPPs on maximum capacity, Solar
Medium Term plan:
LNG based projects, Coal based projects, Wind
Long Term plan:
Nuclear, Hydro, running river, micro-hydro esp thats what kpk govt is doing

Hope this will clarify!

Regards

 

[Arsalan]

I think they are planning to be versatile in energy sector. Each type generation have some limitations

1)Hydro need large funds and takes lot of time for building which can be later hijacked by IK
2)Solar only work at day time
3)Wind varies throughout the day (still need large investment)
4)Nuclear have its own limitations like access, world politics, fuel etc
5)Furnace oil is fast to develop and have lower capital cost but per unit is expensive
6)LNG is so so in everything. Medium in capital cost, rate per unit also little higher, no restriction on LNG supply, higher maintenance costs

For your first question: Generations usually have their grid within the project, for transmission they are built near National Transmission Line also known as National Grid. Once it is on National Grid, it can be sent anywhere. Further, i have heard there are many transmission lines in pipeline as well other than CPEC. Only in karachi there are around 2x 220kV and 5x 132kV line in under process. For distribution, it is a local system which is normally sufficient for existing population density, but in case a city spreads out, more 11kV cables and PMTs can be easily installed which are not much expensive.

For your second question:
Short Term Plan:
Running Furnace oil plants and IPPs on maximum capacity, Solar
Medium Term plan:
LNG based projects, Coal based projects, Wind
Long Term plan:
Nuclear, Hydro, running river, micro-hydro esp thats what kpk govt is doing

Hope this will clarify!

Regards

WEll that you for your detailed reply. It sure was helpful. I would just like to add that by the existing netwrok being able to handle the projected/claimed 30k MW production i was not talking about national grid. Ok let me be open with you, for the past few weeks i am facing 8 to 10 hours load shedding on one or two days every week. The reason when we ask the subdivision is that there system is not handling the load and is tripping. My cousin is also an electrical engineer from NUST and is in LESCO. On eid vacations we met and i asked him what this is all about and this is when he told me that the system is not able to handle the increased requirement in this heat and even if the electricity supply is complete it will keep tripping.

As for the long medium and short term plan, i am aware of the claims sir. I also understand that the condition PPP government left us in, immediate short term projects were required so to improve the situation, even if that meant expensive plants and higher unit rates. I just hope some serious work in done on those long term plans because usually when we talk about demand being, lets say 20k MW and a plan to produce 20k by 2018 (an example only) claiming that the load shedding will see its last, we often forget the increase in demand in this time and that it wont be 20k requirement in 2018. I hope this is not the case here (it seems it is not) but we still need to invest big in hydro power projects (i understand the cost issue but understand that the power will be the by product, we need those dams for water storage as well). Wind is another great thing to invest in because it will help build your industry as well and worked properly may even be a source of foreign exchange. Instead on burning those $$ on oil and gas we may end up earning a few.

 

[maxpayne]

WEll that you for your detailed reply. It sure was helpful. I would just like to add that by the existing netwrok being able to handle the projected/claimed 30k MW production i was not talking about national grid. Ok let me be open with you, for the past few weeks i am facing 8 to 10 hours load shedding on one or two days every week. The reason when we ask the subdivision is that there system is not handling the load and is tripping. My cousin is also an electrical engineer from NUST and is in LESCO. On eid vacations we met and i asked him what this is all about and this is when he told me that the system is not able to handle the increased requirement in this heat and even if the electricity supply is complete it will keep tripping.

As for the long medium and short term plan, i am aware of the claims sir. I also understand that the condition PPP government left us in, immediate short term projects were required so to improve the situation, even if that meant expensive plants and higher unit rates. I just hope some serious work in done on those long term plans because usually when we talk about demand being, lets say 20k MW and a plan to produce 20k by 2018 (an example only) claiming that the load shedding will see its last, we often forget the increase in demand in this time and that it wont be 20k requirement in 2018. I hope this is not the case here (it seems it is not) but we still need to invest big in hydro power projects (i understand the cost issue but understand that the power will be the by product, we need those dams for water storage as well). Wind is another great thing to invest in because it will help build your industry as well and worked properly may even be a source of foreign exchange. Instead on burning those $$ on oil and gas we may end up earning a few.

Ok Janab. As i said earlier, tripping is due to overload distribution system (less than 11kV network). There are two things:
1) It is citizen mistake bcz when they give application to install new meter, they show connected load as 4kW (for example), but after few years, they install 2 AC and other load which make real connected load as 10kW. This is done to save security deposit on new meter. (For reference see your electric bill, it has ur connected load and security deposit against that security deposit) Im sure similar to my home, ur too may have huge difference between registered and real load
Now utility companies install distribution system (400V, Meters, LT/HT wires, PMTs, Substations, Feeders etc) by calculating registered load which is always outdated due to reason above.
2) Utility companies have mostly govt employees which give illegal connections and hide electric theft. This turn to unregistered overloading thus load on system.

 

[Arsalan]

Ok Janab. As i said earlier, tripping is due to underload distribution system (less than 11kV network). There are two things:
1) It is citizen mistake bcz when they give application to install new meter, they show connected load as 4kW (for example), but after few years, they install 2 AC and other load which make real connected load as 10kW. This is done to save security deposit on new meter. (For reference see your electric bill, it has ur connected load and security deposit against that security deposit) Im sure similar to my home, ur too may have huge difference between registered and real load
Now utility companies install distribution system (400V, Meters, LT/HT wires, PMTs, Substations, Feeders etc) by calculating registered load which is always outdated due to reason above.
2) Utility companies have mostly govt employees which give illegal connections and hide electric theft. This turn to unregistered overloading thus load on system.

Again, thanks for explaining this.
I sure am going to check the load i got my bill against and what we are consuming right now. This makes sense and i think if this is what is happening this should be treated the same as electricity theft! If you registered for 4kW and are using 10kW then surely it is theft as far as i can understand.

 

[Path-Finder]

Humanity has outpaced Shaitan.

 

[maxpayne]

Again, thanks for explaining this.
I sure am going to check the load i got my bill against and what we are consuming right now. This makes sense and i think if this is what is happening this should be treated the same as electricity theft! If you registered for 4kW and are using 10kW then surely it is theft as far as i can understand.

Well recently K-Electric has raised security deposit on connected load. Earlier it was 50-100 rupee per kW, now it is around 2000/kW i think. Even Sui Southern has raised its security deposit from 50 to 500 i think.
U would be astonished to read that K-Electric even compensate ur bill with annual interest on ur security deposit. Adjustment on 1 kw is around 3-4 rupee annually with earlier rates . It is done on the bill of april

 

[LA se Karachi]

I think they are planning to be versatile in energy sector. Each type generation have some limitations

1)Hydro need large funds and takes lot of time for building which can be later hijacked by IK
2)Solar only work at day time
3)Wind varies throughout the day (still need large investment)
4)Nuclear have its own limitations like access, world politics, fuel etc
5)Furnace oil is fast to develop and have lower capital cost but per unit is expensive
6)LNG is so so in everything. Medium in capital cost, rate per unit also little higher, no restriction on LNG supply, higher maintenance costs

For your first question: Generations usually have their grid within the project, for transmission they are built near National Transmission Line also known as National Grid. Once it is on National Grid, it can be sent anywhere. Further, i have heard there are many transmission lines in pipeline as well other than CPEC. Only in karachi there are around 2x 220kV and 5x 132kV line in under process. For distribution, it is a local system which is normally sufficient for existing population density, but in case a city spreads out, more 11kV cables and PMTs can be easily installed which are not much expensive.

For your second question:
Short Term Plan:
Running Furnace oil plants and IPPs on maximum capacity, Solar
Medium Term plan:
LNG based projects, Coal based projects, Wind
Long Term plan:
Nuclear, Hydro, running river, micro-hydro esp thats what kpk govt is doing

Hope this will clarify!

Regards

What about coal?

 

[maxpayne]

What about coal?

Per unit is nearly same as LNG. However, pollution factor does get important. Due to this factor, many investors avoid it now a days.

 

[SBD-3]

Railways' brand new high-speed coal freight coaches unload for Sahiwal coal project.

 

[LA se Karachi]

Per unit is nearly same as LNG. However, pollution factor does get important. Due to this factor, many investors avoid it now a days.

Really? I thought it was cheaper?

 

[maxpayne]

Really? I thought it was cheaper?

Maybe. Depends on cost of LNG and Coal. And quality as well!