Navy to issue world's largest chopper tender

[sancho]

No in the multi-role helo front there are 2 separate procurements to replace the ASW SeaKings and the Utility/SOAR SeaKings, well AFAIK anyway. The reason being the, especially SOAR versions, will need to be significantly different and customised for this specific role compAred to the ASW helos and will need a2a refuelling in particular.

Older Sea Kings had different versions for ASW and anti ship for example, today that's not needed anymore, you can simply put different weapons on the helicopters and use it in different roles. Even the naval Dhruv is offered in a ASW version, that also can use Anti ship missiles. IF mid air refuelling capability will be added to some of them is a different issue, because that will depend on the platform they are used from. None of our Frigats or Destroyers could use a Sea Hawk with this refuelling probe:

Currently I don't see any specialised SOAR version going to be inducted, especially not in this weight class and unless we will go for LHDs or SOAR helicopters on our aircraft carriers. But in both possibilities, a bigger medium to heavy class heli would be the better choice. That's why I want to see CV 22s in addition to the C130Js as special ops aircrafts in IAF, which would be the best choice for such a role in IN as well.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Older Sea Kings had different versions for ASW and anti ship for example, today that's not needed anymore, you can simply put different weapons on the helicopters and use it in different roles. Even the naval Dhruv is offered in a ASW version, that also can use Anti ship missiles. IF mid air refuelling capability will be added to some of them is a different issue, because that will depend on the platform they are used from. None of our Frigats or Destroyers could use a Sea Hawk with this refuelling probe:

Currently I don't see any specialised SOAR version going to be inducted, especially not in this weight class and unless we will go for LHDs or SOAR helicopters on our aircraft carriers. But in both possibilities, a bigger medium to heavy class heli would be the better choice. That's why I want to see CV 22s in addition to the C130Js as special ops aircrafts in IAF, which would be the best choice for such a role in IN as well.

The inflight refuelling isn't an "IF" but a defined requirement. And the IN is very much interested in dedicated specialised SOAR platforms. News for you- the IN already has 2 dedicated SOAR SQDs for SOFs albeit limited to Sea King 42 "Commando" platform. With the new vigour upgrading SOFs is taking it should not be too surprising. But I too would love to see a few MV-22s for the IN to operate on the LPDs and a a few CV-22s for IAF to compliment the IAF 77th SOAR.

 

[SP!TF!R3]

hmmm great new......yuppppy my 1000th post...

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[danger007]

Heya it took u a while to reach that 1000nd mark .

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[sancho]

The inflight refuelling isn't an "IF" but a defined requirement. And the IN is very much interested in dedicated specialised SOAR platforms. News for you- the IN already has 2 dedicated SOAR SQDs for SOFs albeit limited to Sea King 42 "Commando" platform. With the new vigour upgrading SOFs is taking it should not be too surprising. But I too would love to see a few MV-22s for the IN to operate on the LPDs and a a few CV-22s for IAF to compliment the IAF 77th SOAR.

You didn't get my point, inflight refuelling will be added only to speacial versions, be it the Ka AEWs or if required SOAR versions, but these would have to be operated by special platforms (vessels) as well. So unless IN wants to operate them from their currently planned aircraft carriers, or they will go for LHDs, there won't be speacial SOAR versions and even if, they would go for a dedicated competition, because such aircrafts needs special capabilities and equipment.
Useing a V22 from LDP for normal transport roles doesn't make much sense, because it's too costly to operate and don't offer enough lift capability. If IN goes for LDPs, Ch 53 or S92s or AW 101s would be better choices.

 

[Abingdonboy]

You didn't get my point, inflight refuelling will be added only to speacial versions, be it the Ka AEWs or if required SOAR versions, but these would have to be operated by special platforms (vessels) as well. So unless IN wants to operate them from their currently planned aircraft carriers, or they will go for LHDs, there won't be speacial SOAR versions and even if, they would go for a dedicated competition, because such aircrafts needs special capabilities and equipment.
Useing a V22 from LDP for normal transport roles doesn't make much sense, because it's too costly to operate and don't offer enough lift capability. If IN goes for LDPs, Ch 53 or S92s or AW 101s would be better choices.

You're saying I didn't get the point but you're effectively regurgitation what I have said in previous posts- the IN IS going for a separate tender for the SOAR/utility helos over the existing ASW tender and contenders in this are S-92, EH-101 and S-70B/MH-60R. As far as platforms go the SOAR birds can operate of most vessels in the IN such as the larger destroyers, ACC and LHD/LPDs as well as from shore just like other SOARs of other navies. What kind of special platform are you alluding to?


Ch-53 for a SOAR platform is far from ideal. I think though, IMO we could later see (2015/6) a Ch-53K vs MV-22 situation to operate off the IN's LPDs/LHDs.

 

[sancho]

the IN IS going for a separate tender for the SOAR/utility helos

Source please!

As far as platforms go the SOAR birds can operate of most vessels in the IN such as the larger destroyers, ACC and LHD/LPDs as well as from shore just like other SOARs of other navies. What kind of special platform are you alluding to?

Operating a SOAR helicopter from an LPD makes no sense, operating Sea Hawks with inflight refuelling probe depends on the size of the hangars, which currently operates much smaller Dhruv, Sea King and Kamov helicopters and as mentioned, which leaves only INS Viraat, INS Vikramaditya or IAC 1 as platforms. That's why I said, it is more likely that there will be a dedicated tender for some specialised helis, while this will be a bigger thender for normal ASW and uitility role helis and that's where the V22 can play a role.

Ch-53 for a SOAR platform is far from ideal.

Read this:

Sikorsky MH-53 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

P.S.

A combo that I wouldn't mind in Indian forces as well, the Ch 53 K (new version) for heavy lift of IAF and IN (in case we go for LPDs) and the V22 for special roles (SOAR for IAF and IN, AEW + tanker + ASW for IN carriers).

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Sancho

I do have to say I am utterly confused by some of your logic:

Operating a SOAR helicopter from an LPD makes no sense, operating Sea Hawks with inflight refuelling probe depends on the size of the hangars, which currently operates much smaller Dhruv, Sea King and Kamov helicopters and as mentioned, which leaves only INS Viraat, INS Vikramaditya or IAC 1 as platforms. That's why I said, it is more likely that there will be a dedicated tender for some specialised helis, while this will be a bigger thender for normal ASW and uitility role helis and that's where the V22 can play a role.

You are saying a SeaHawk/EH-101 is too big for IN ACC, LDP/LHD hangers but the CH-53/V-22 is NOT?!! If a ship can house a V-22/Ch-53 they can easily house a MRH with a A2A refuelling probe. And who's to say the SOAR/utility requirement will be filled by the S-70B/MH-60R? Look at the EH-101's (a possible tender for SOAR/utility helo for IN) A2A refuelling probe, it's not to unwieldy:

 

[sancho]

@Sancho

I do have to say I am utterly confused by some of your logic:

You are saying a SeaHawk/EH-101 is too big for IN ACC, LDP/LHD hangers but the CH-53/V-22 is NOT?!!

You just have to read them propperly and not mix up different posts, I said that a SOAR Sea Hawk with the long refuelling probe might not fit into the hangars of Frigats and Detroyers and posted even a pic of it, but size of the AW 101 alone would be too big for these vessels anyway.
I also said that if IN goes for LPDs, the CH 53 would be a better helicopter than a V22, because an LPD can house only a few of them and the CH 53 can lift more cargo and troops at once.

And who's to say the SOAR/utility requirement will be filled by the S-70B/MH-60R? Look at the EH-101's (a possible tender for SOAR/utility helo for IN) A2A refuelling probe, it's not to unwieldy:

You didn't provided a source for any SOAR requirement at all and the recent news as well as this new one, makes clear that IN wants a single type of helicopter now to be used on Frigates, Destroyers and most likely LPDs, so it will be either the NH90 or the Sea Hawk which I expect to win, that will be used. That again confirms, that if there would be a SOAR requirement with bigger aircrafts like AW 101, S92 or V22, it might be a dedicated one for the use on our aircraft carriers.