NATO's missile offer to India: nothing to lose

[praful]

It's not so much of an anti-US sentiment than a non aligned stand. US can make a great Ally, but honestly as a nation still going through the development process, our priorities are vastly different from that of the US. US does not face those issues with it's other traditional allies. India-China and US-G8 have constantly been at loggerheads in trade and economic forums. There is bound to be a carry over effect on strategic military relations as well.

I do not think a military cooperation with US will harm our relation with china or any other country. See china is our biggest trading partner but it shares great relation with pakistan. Doesn't it throw these carpy theory of startegic and economic inetrests are interlinked. China is going great guns in defence. we need to sense the pulse for our future generation we did the mistake in 1962. Getting a defense system is very critical for our future. China is building nuclear plants in Pakistan.

By signing the pact we will send clear signal to the world that India means business.

 

[illusion8]

It's not so much of an anti-US sentiment than a non aligned stand. US can make a great Ally, but honestly as a nation still going through the development process, our priorities are vastly different from that of the US. US does not face those issues with it's other traditional allies. India-China and US-G8 have constantly been at loggerheads in trade and economic forums. There is bound to be a carry over effect on strategic military relations as well.

What's the downturn of aligning up with NATO, and even if there are minor hindrances, India owing to her size and influence can easily neutralize it. And from an earlier post if such a step would allow the west to take over India thats just a pipe dream not gonna happen in this day and age. Upswings are plenty we come under a defense umbrella which would take care of our perceived threats. Our trade and defense ties are largely with the Russia, the US, Israel. Trade is again with the US, Japan, EU etc. All of our partners are with NATO. This step will open up India further to the world. I am not a great fan of Non Alignment presently. India tries to be a poor man's hero, but that can be done in the future when it becomes a global power.

 

[illusion8]

I do not think a military cooperation with US will harm our relation with china or any other country. See china is our biggest trading partner but it shares great relation with pakistan. Doesn't it throw these carpy theory of startegic and economic inetrests are interlinked. China is going great guns in defence. we need to sense the pulse for our future generation we did the mistake in 1962. Getting a defense system is very critical for our future. China is building nuclear plants in Pakistan.

By signing the pact we will send clear signal to the world that India means business.

Trade with China is actually no great shakes its actually a major loss for India, we have a huge trade deficit. We should try and cut our losses.

 

[HongWu]

All developing countries are in bad neighborhood. China thinks the same way. Colonialists left SA and S-EA in a total mess of nationhood based on religious and ethnic divisions. This creates groupings among non-bordering neighbors against "common large neighbors".

Let me tell you a little story:
---------------
Native American Indians were divided into many small scattered nations - including some very powerful civilizations like the Aztecs - before the European invasion. When the Europeans discovered and started settling in the Americas, these small tribes/nation/civs could have easily repelled the colonialists by forming a massive alliance among themselves. As simple as it seems to us, the native tribes had a different mindset.
Each native tribe/nation thought of the neighbors to be as different from them as the newly settled Europeans. They had old rivalries among themselves, and thought it was a great idea to team up with the European forces against their old rivals. Europeans were always more then happy to lend their strength and get rid of some native tribe.
Then the Europeans would turn against their old friends with some new native allies. This kept going on, till the Europeans took control of the Americas as an unchallenged entity.
Even today, the natives here in North America are a very disadvantaged, underprivileged society.
-----------

Bottom line: Asian countries must not fight among themselves. Any short term territorial gain would be offset by long term instability, continued hostility and more aggressive arms race, all of which benefit only the continued supremacy of the West.

Yes, back in the early 1900's American media all gushed about the fighting ferocity of Indian allies like the Cherokee and Blackfoot. Remember these were the "loyal sidekick" to the Western cowboys.

When the wild west was finally conquered, the former allies were shooed into reservations, plied with alcohol and drugs and now Indians are completely wiped out from American media and popular awareness.

 

[Vibs]

I do not think a military cooperation with US will harm our relation with china or any other country. See china is our biggest trading partner but it shares great relation with pakistan. Doesn't it throw these carpy theory of startegic and economic inetrests are interlinked. China is going great guns in defence. we need to sense the pulse for our future generation we did the mistake in 1962. Getting a defense system is very critical for our future. China is building nuclear plants in Pakistan.

By signing the pact we will send clear signal to the world that India means business.

I'm more concerned about Indo-Russian relations wrt position with NATO.

What's the downturn of aligning up with NATO, and even if there are minor hindrances, India owing to her size and influence can easily neutralize it. And from an earlier post if such a step would allow the west to take over India thats just a pipe dream not gonna happen in this day and age. Upswings are plenty we come under a defense umbrella which would take care of our perceived threats. Our trade and defense ties are largely with the Russia, the US, Israel. Trade is again with the US, Japan, EU etc. All of our partners are with NATO. This step will open up India further to the world. I am not a great fan of Non Alignment presently. India tries to be a poor man's hero, but that can be done in the future when it becomes a global power.

Don't deny your arguments. What you are missing is the fact that India is actively trying to get membership into SCO. It's widely believed to be Asia's answer to NATO. This will sort of throw a spanner into that plan of ours.

 

[dr.crazze]

What's the downturn of aligning up with NATO, and even if there are minor hindrances, India owing to her size and influence can easily neutralize it. And from an earlier post if such a step would allow the west to take over India thats just a pipe dream not gonna happen in this day and age. Upswings are plenty we come under a defense umbrella which would take care of our perceived threats. Our trade and defense ties are largely with the Russia, the US, Israel. Trade is again with the US, Japan, EU etc. All of our partners are with NATO. This step will open up India further to the world. I am not a great fan of Non Alignment presently. India tries to be a poor man's hero, but that can be done in the future when it becomes a global power.

you are talking about global power , a global power never become from taking defence help from a existing global power
lets see point by point
1.nato will never give us tech they will only provide missiles with controls not with us but with the nato statergic command do you want to give our future generations safety in others hand
2.the cost of getting those missiles will be far greater than the home grown ones ( product +r&d combined)
3.such a act by india will induce more help of china towards pak bringing problems
4.our own r&d will suffer badly as when you don't need it why to waste time on it
5.we will always be under surveillance from nato
6.have we forgotten the 71 the enterprise case ( chanakya neete says once a enemy always a enemy no matter how he deals with you now)
BTW who we fear china will never attack us a drown its international repute and buisness(its a manufacturing hub not a buisness gaint ) pakistan we all know its only have a nuisance value for us and moreover its damaging itself
6.we will become dependent and can't raise our voice against them (have you seen any country in nato doing so with usa)

 

[Obambam]

You are fooling no one

eh? What does me got to do with it? do you not agree with what I say?

Did you intend innuendo with this statement or was that just accidental?

Are you saying that India's appearance on world stage was accidental?

 

[praful]

I'm more concerned about Indo-Russian relations wrt position with NATO.

Some people won't agree with me but as per my recent memory russia is an unreliable partner. Cost escalation, corruption, poor quality and delay are the norms of partnership with russia. Look at russia they are providing major weapons to russia and also engines for JF thunder. Are we calling this strategic partnership ? Look at the recent C-130 acquisition from US and I also hope P8I will get delivered before time. We having the race against time. Half of our weapons are obsolete. I do not think US has ditched any nation.

This is a great opportunity India is big we can also put out Indigeneous defence shield in tier 2 cities. we need a lot of hardware to make up for our demand.

 

[illusion8]

I'm more concerned about Indo-Russian relations wrt position with NATO.



Don't deny your arguments. What you are missing is the fact that India is actively trying to get membership into SCO. It's widely believed to be Asia's answer to NATO. This will sort of throw a spanner into that plan of ours.

You got that wrong India is hesitant to join SCO.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

No to these NATO shield.
1) Dont piss of the Russians.
2) Dont lose hope in the DRDO's plans.
3) Dont become the scapegoat of NATO.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

Some people won't agree with me but as per my recent memory russia is an unreliable partner. Cost escalation, corruption, poor quality and delay are the norms of partnership with russia. Look at russia they are providing major weapons to russia and also engines for JF thunder. Are we calling this strategic partnership ? Look at the recent C-130 acquisition from US and I also hope P8I will get delivered before time. We having the race against time. Half of our weapons are obsolete. I do not think US has ditched any nation.

This is a great opportunity India is big we can also put out Indigeneous defence shield in tier 2 cities. we need a lot of hardware to make up for our demand.

BS US did not ditch any country? As long as U are a puppet they wont ditch U.

 

[Dash]

If they offer us the tech and control then we should go for this one....
A month ago even I was thinking not to opt for this because of our non-allignment policy.

However now I am think chuk the policy, I cant run when a missile will hit my a**...so I need this one.

 

[misterme2]

Just more validation of why the us is an untrustworthy partner, any AMERICAN care to explain this?

Remember, when Pakistani's hate their "friend" that enemy's friend become your best friend....

 

[Tshering22]

I think TOT will be out of question. As much as I see my fellow countrymen being happy about, there has to be some clause that will limit us. It is natural to expect it. On what grounds would they offer same level assistance when we are neither a European country nor a NATO member?

Let's see:

- We hold independent stand.

-We have many times been staunch in our stand in UN which has sometimes contradicted the NATO stand including the recent Syrian vote and its negotiation process.

- We are strategically very close to Russia, a country that Kissingers in US Senate still suspect more than anyone else despite the dynamic change of threats post cold war. We've some of the most critical military tie up with Russians. That is not pleasant for NATO's ears.

- Unlike most NATO members, we don't easily cower down to pressure (most of the time) and retain independent political policy. That's a point for re-thinking.

While it is good to see such offers coming up, I'd say that we have to carefully examine the deal and assess it. NATO technology is good, but that's the only thing good about them (I am talking about the other major aspect aka Political intent). Let Pradyumna BMD (the initial name given to PAD and AAD) develop as it is in one of its final developmental stages. Then we will have our own shield.

I don't know how much NATO would be willing to part with its prize tech.

 

[praful]

No to these NATO shield.
1) Dont piss of the Russians.
2) Dont lose hope in the DRDO's plans.
3) Dont become the scapegoat of NATO.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------


BS US did not ditch any country? As long as U are a puppet they wont ditch U.

How this is BS. Korea, japan, taiwan, ME and europe are safe because of US.

Look at the current one-- Pak f-16 are getting a new kit after having so much differences.

Pissing off russia-- seriously dude-- they are pissing us by doing cost escalation and delaying very significant and strategic projects. they are also selling weapons to china and jet engines to Pakistan. what is that.

How we will become the scapegoat of NATO...tell me..

People have very superficial view on the topic.

 

[illusion8]

How this is BS. Korea, japan, taiwan, ME and europe are safe because of US.

Look at the current one-- Pak f-16 are getting a new kit after having so much differences.

Pissing off russia-- seriously dude-- they are pissing us by doing cost escalation and delaying very significant and strategic projects. they are also selling weapons to china and jet engines to Pakistan. what is that.

How we will become the scapegoat of NATO...tell me..

People have very superficial view on the topic.

Agree with you on this, time we abandon our post independent era logic and take a valid side. Though the whole agreement might have to be looked into minutely. I don't think any NATO country is in a position to hamper India in any way presently. Gone are the days when India was sanctioned for tests, No ones pressuring India to sign the NPT for example. With regards to Russia they are free to trade with our adversaries so should we be. We should cross the bridge when we come to it. As for the defense deals with Russia, its a deal where we pay for the equipment, Its not as if Russia gives it for free. Russia needs India more for the funding.