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NATO ships and aircraft believed to be hunting Russian carrier-killing submarines off Syria

Suff Shikan

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NATO ships and aircraft believed to be hunting Russian carrier-killing submarines off Syria
December 14, 201611:54am
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A Russian Oscar II class submarine. Two of these specialist aircraft-carrier killing submarines are believed operating in the eastern Mediterranean.


NATO is scrambling to find up to two Russian cruise-missile submarines believed to be shadowing French and US aircraft carriers operating off the coast of Syria.

The Russian Oscar-II submarines were built during the Cold War specifically to overwhelm the defences of US nuclear-powered aircraft carriers with swarms of missiles.

Russia has in recent years been steadily refurbishing and upgrading its fleet. Now it is believed two of these submarines are active in the eastern Mediterranean.

The Aviatonist aviation blog reports military sources saying NATO anti-submarine forces are now attempting to locate and track these deadly submarines.

Of particular concern is the safety of the USS Eisenhower and the French Charles de Gaulle.


Both aircraft carriers have been launching air strikes against Islamic State forces from waters off the coast of Syria.

Russia’s only aircraft carrier, the accident-prone Admiral Kuznetsov, and its escort of warships are also in the same area.

But NATO’s ability to locate such submarines — once its staple trade — is now in doubt.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the United States — and in particular the United Kingdom — have allowed their submarine hunting abilities to wane.

Britain no longer has any sub-hunting aircraft, and its few remaining anti-submarine frigates are rapidly approaching the end of their useful lives.

In recent years the British government has repeatedly had to appeal to its European and American allies for the loan of aircraft and ships to tracking down Russian spy submarines believed to have been lurking of the coast of Scotland.

The US is similarly having to cope with outmoded technology and techniques, though its new P-8 Poseidon submarine hunting version of the 737-800 airliner is taking part in this operation.

The 1980s vintage Russian Oscar class submarines are among the largest ever built.

At 154m long and 18m wide, they were designed to carry 24 nuclear-capable, high speed cruiser missiles. They are also fitted with six torpedo tubes, each also capable of launching missiles.

The presence of the submarines has little bearing on the Syrian civil war. Their missiles are not suited for attacking land-based targets.

It’s a similar story for the Russian Su-33 air superiority fighters now based in Syria. Neither Syrian rebels nor Islamic State operate aircraft.

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Flight engineers prepare aircraft in the hangar of the aircraft carrier Charles-de-Gaulle which has been operating in the eastern Mediterranean Sea for most of the year. Picture: AFPSource:AFP
 
Let the games begin. Whoever thought that the Cold War is over is severely mistaken.
 
But NATO’s ability to locate such submarines — once its staple trade — is now in doubt.
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the United States — and in particular the United Kingdom — have allowed their submarine hunting abilities to wane.
Oh, really?

Britain no longer has any sub-hunting aircraft, and its few remaining anti-submarine frigates are rapidly approaching the end of their useful lives.
We're looking at the Easterns med, right? There are 18 Italian and 22 French Breguet Atlantique II submarine hunting aircraft. Greece operates six P-3B Orion. Portugal operates five P-3C CUP+. Spain operates two P-3A HWs and four P-3B ( ex-Norway) being upgraded to P-3M. Additional Orion operators in NATO in areas other than the Med are: Germany (eight ex-Dutch P-3C CUP+ ), Norway (four P-3C, two P-3N). These can be shifted around as needed. This is not counting 100 P-3Cs and 14 EP-3Es in US service. 28 P-8s Poseidon were delivered to the USN through August 2015. Turkey operates 4 CASA CN-235 in the MPA role. These numbers still excludes any and all rotary wing ASW assets (both land and ship based) and ASW ships. Besides 16 Type 23s, the UK operates 6 Daring class destroyers, which are also ASW capable, as are its submarines. Not to mention the submarines, frigates and destroyers of the navies of Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Greece and Turkey, if necessariy augmented by vessels from Northern European states.

And as for the 'old' Type 23s, these have recently been going through mid-life refits which last 12–18 months. Sonar 2087 was fitted to eight Type 23 frigates in mid-life refits between 2004 and 2012. Sonar 2087 is described by its manufacturer as "a towed-array system that enables Type 23 frigates to hunt the latest submarines at considerable distances and locate them beyond the range at which they [submarines] can launch an attack.". The five oldest Type 23 frigates (of 13 in service), HMS Montrose, Monmouth, Iron Duke, Lancaster and Argyll are not scheduled to receive Sonar 2087. These ships will instead continue to be employed across the normal range of standing Royal Navy deployments. Refits have also included the Sea Wolf Mid Life Update (SWMLU), which improves the sensors and guidance of the missiles, point defences are further improved with new remotely operated 30mm guns, and Mod 1 of the Mk8 main gun has an all-electric loading system and a smaller radar cross-section. The communications and command systems are also upgraded. The Type 23's medium-range radar is being replaced on all Type 23 by BAE Systems Insyte Type 997 Artisan 3D radar.. HMS Iron Duke was the first Type 23 frigate to have received the Type 997 Artisan 3D radar during her refit in 2012–13. A further refit is expected, with HMS Argyll being the first to receive this Life Extension (LIFEX) Upkeep. Amongst the upgrades will be the replacement of the Sea Wolf missiles with the new Sea Ceptor anti-air defence missiles

I think NATO can manage finding two Oscar-IIs. There are just 2 active in the NOrthern fleet and 3 in the Pacific fleet.
 
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