NATO request reopening of supply routes, Imran refuses.

[OrionHunter]

Who's in charge in Pakistan? Imran Khan or the central government led by Nawaz Sharif? This is not a state subject but comes under the deal made by the Central government and the US. How can a regional satrap like Imran Khan hold Pakistan to ransom?

 

[tarrar]

This can turn out dangerous for Pakistan. In the past when our Military acted on Salala incident US directly threatened Pakistan by bringing up Balochistan province issues.

Pakistan will always suffer under DEMOCRAZY as they always end up giving unlimited permission to US & they allow US to do whatever they want to do.

PPP made it worse & now PML-N is making it even more worse.

 

[airmarshal]

Who's in charge in Pakistan? Imran Khan or the central government led by Nawaz Sharif? This is not a state subject but comes under the deal made by the Central government and the US. How can a regional satrap like Imran Khan hold Pakistan to ransom?

Hold ransom? I think you dont understand I guess. Let me give you background.

Drone strikes are hated and are unpopular in the country. In election campaign, Nawaz himself and his party strongly denounced drones and promised to stop them. This was Imran's stance too. His has been same stance 2004 that this war is not ours and we should not fight it.

After elections, all parties which have representation in parliament were called in a meeting and a resolution made that drones be stopped. If not NATO routes will be blocked.

Since then, Nawaz government has not uttered a single word regarding drones. Imran is doing what he promised. This is where he is facing serious criticism from the ruling elite, whom I call thugs.

How ironic it is that those who promised go back on word and the one who holds on to it is criticized.

Imran's party is protesting. The government led by his party in the province is not confronting the central govt. This answers your question regarding challenging central govt. authority.

Honestly speaking central govt has lost moral authority to rule. Despite promises both public and political, it has so openly gone back on its words. I dont see them last very long despite clear majority.

 

[OrionHunter]

Hold ransom? I think you dont understand I guess. Let me give you background.

Drone strikes are hated and are unpopular in the country. In election campaign, Nawaz himself and his party strongly denounced drones and promised to stop them. This was Imran's stance too. His has been same stance 2004 that this war is not ours and we should not fight it.

Why I said that Pakistan is being held to ransom by Imran Khan is this....
Leaked report reveals Pakistan-US 'understanding' on drones

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan reached an understanding with the United States on drone strikes targeting militants and the attacks can be useful, said the leaked remarks of a former intelligence chief.

Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who headed Pakistan’s premier Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency at the time of bin Laden’s killing in 2011, told investigators that drone strikes had their uses.

“The DG (director general) said there were no written agreements. There was a political understanding,” the report said. Pakistan publicly condemns US missile attacks on Taliban and al Qaeda operatives as a violation of its sovereignty, but the new revelations are the latest sign of double-dealing in private.

Leaked report reveals Pakistan-US ‘understanding’ on drones – The Express Tribune

And that's probably why the Nawaz government has not uttered a single word regarding drones.



.

 

[A.Rafay]

No offend, but i guess this is a typo right??

Will not reopen unless drone strike ARE NOT Stopped??

So you will open the line if the American keep on the drone strike??

again, nothing offending intented.....But we should consider spanking that jurno....

It may be a typo, the quality of journalists is garbage these days!

 

[A.Rafay]

Why I said that Pakistan is being held to ransom by Imran Khan is this....
Leaked report reveals Pakistan-US 'understanding' on drones

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan reached an understanding with the United States on drone strikes targeting militants and the attacks can be useful, said the leaked remarks of a former intelligence chief.

Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who headed Pakistan’s premier Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency at the time of bin Laden’s killing in 2011, told investigators that drone strikes had their uses.

“The DG (director general) said there were no written agreements. There was a political understanding,” the report said. Pakistan publicly condemns US missile attacks on Taliban and al Qaeda operatives as a violation of its sovereignty, but the new revelations are the latest sign of double-dealing in private.

Leaked report reveals Pakistan-US ‘understanding’ on drones – The Express Tribune

And that's probably why the Nawaz government has not uttered a single word regarding drones.



.

Is this understanding greater than the parliament passing resolution against drone strikes?

 

[OrionHunter]

Is this understanding greater than the parliament passing resolution against drone strikes?

That's the million dollar question!

Seeing that the PA calls the shots where ops against the terrorists are concerned, and rightly so, the tacit understanding would have been between the PA and the Americans. After all, what would be better than the Americans helping to root out these terrorists from areas that are inaccessible due to the terrain obtaining there? Launching ops in such areas are extremely difficult and hazardous and could result in unacceptable casualties to troops.

So, is Nawaz on the same page as the PA? The answer would probably be yes. And thus the silence on his part.

 

[Not Sure]

No offend, but i guess this is a typo right??

Will not reopen unless drone strike ARE NOT Stopped??

So you will open the line if the American keep on the drone strike??

again, nothing offending intented.....But we should consider spanking that jurno....

Just for writing a sentence that went beyond your head?

How dare he

 

[Aamna14]

Affective or not its beyond me how people think that changing one's strategy in such a situation, where we are already on the receiving end and can only get in a worse mess, is a bad thing? Some people would always talk because they aren't the ones dying or even threatened. Imran Khan is being the voice of reason here by refusing to be a puppet in the hands of the American regime. I don't care what Chuck Hegel says as long as the supplies remain blocked.

 

[airmarshal]

Why I said that Pakistan is being held to ransom by Imran Khan is this....
Leaked report reveals Pakistan-US 'understanding' on drones

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan reached an understanding with the United States on drone strikes targeting militants and the attacks can be useful, said the leaked remarks of a former intelligence chief.

Ahmed Shuja Pasha, who headed Pakistan’s premier Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency at the time of bin Laden’s killing in 2011, told investigators that drone strikes had their uses.

“The DG (director general) said there were no written agreements. There was a political understanding,” the report said. Pakistan publicly condemns US missile attacks on Taliban and al Qaeda operatives as a violation of its sovereignty, but the new revelations are the latest sign of double-dealing in private.

Leaked report reveals Pakistan-US ‘understanding’ on drones – The Express Tribune

And that's probably why the Nawaz government has not uttered a single word regarding drones.



.

How can a foreign air force fly their planes in our territory without our consent? Its true that there is collaboration but Pakistanis absolutely hate it. This is where the bite is. If the intelligence thinks drones are good and have their benefits, they should openly convey to the public that we allowed them. This is not happening.

There is a typical brown sahib attitude in our bureaucracy and military. These are institutions built by the British Raj. They think they are some higher creation. I think you might experience the same attitude in India too.

They cant tell this to people they allowed it because drones are so unpopular. If they weren't unpopular they still wouldn't say it as they think their decision, right or wrong, is coming from some higher being. This attitude of contempt is quite evident in their public dealings.

Shamsi base in Baluchistan was where drones were operated. People knew it and Google maps pictures proved it too. For a decade military denied their existence despite proof. Then they arm twisted the journalists who reported these investigations and sent them threatening text messages or called from unknown numbers. When America attacked Salala base, the military ordered evacuation of US resources from Shamsi base!

 

[Not Sure]

How can a foreign air force fly their planes in our territory without our consent? Its true that there is collaboration but Pakistanis absolutely hate it. This is where the bite is. If the intelligence thinks drones are good and have their benefits, they should openly convey to the public that we allowed them. This is not happening.

You are right, this is what brings discontent among the populace of Pakistan. But there is an inherent problem in such admission. Because the drones come from the US, the people would reject their utility not matter how tactically and strategically useful they are, and the resulting consensus could bring the intel agencies in the dock. Also, a great number of people actually do support those who are specifically targeted by the drones. Calling Hakimullah Mehsud a martyr by a political cum religious leader was just a peek into that attitude.

How can you expect the intel agencies to speak on the usage of drones when political parties such as the PTI and the JeI are amassing crowds to oppose the same?

There is a typical brown sahib attitude in our bureaucracy and military. These are institutions built by the British Raj. They think they are some higher creation. I think you might experience the same attitude in India too.

No. In India, irrespective of the merits of such intervention, anything, which is foreign and unpopular in public, would bring down the government fairly quickly. Bhopal gas tragedy is just an example where the owner of Union Carbide was not at as big a culprit as he was made to be and the company was sent packing the very next day and compensations were sought right away.

Shamsi base in Baluchistan was where drones were operated. People knew it and Google maps pictures proved it too. For a decade military denied their existence despite proof. Then they arm twisted the journalists who reported these investigations and sent them threatening text messages or called from unknown numbers. When America attacked Salala base, the military ordered evacuation of US resources from Shamsi base!

They had no choice. While the usage of drone has in fact kept Pakistan calmer than it would be, the Army would lose its credibility among the masses if it were to make its support for drones public. The Salala incident, Kamran Air Base attack, and then the OBL raid, all these incidents have already made the Army look weak in the eyes of masses. How can they afford to tell the people that what everyone is talking against in the country, the Army is actually supporting it?

It would not be easy for anyone to make the commoner understand the benefits of the drone attacks. Most certainly not for the Army.

 

[airmarshal]

You are right, this is what brings discontent among the populace of Pakistan. But there is an inherent problem in such admission. Because the drones come from the US, the people would reject their utility not matter how tactically and strategically useful they are, and the resulting consensus could bring the intel agencies in the dock. Also, a great number of people actually do support those who are specifically targeted by the drones. Calling Hakimullah Mehsud a martyr by a political cum religious leader was just a peek into that attitude.

How can you expect the intel agencies to speak on the usage of drones when political parties such as the PTI and the JeI are amassing crowds to oppose the same?




No. In India, irrespective of the merits of such intervention, anything, which is foreign and unpopular in public, would bring down the government fairly quickly. Bhopal gas tragedy is just an example where the owner of Union Carbide was not at as big a culprit as he was made to be and the company was sent packing the very next day and compensations were sought right away.




They had no choice. While the usage of has in fact kept Pakistan calmer than it would be, the Army would lose its credibility among the masses if it were to make its support for drones public. The Salala incident, Kamran Air Base attack, and then the OBL raid, all these incidents have already made the Army look weak in the eyes of masses. How can they afford to tell the people that what everyone is talking against in the country, the Army is actually supporting it?

It would not be easy for anyone to make the commoner understand the benefits of the drone attacks. Most certainly not for the Army.

May be I know more than you about Pakistan so instead of commenting and making an effort as if you know more than us, it would be better to stick to what I stated.

Crowds are coming out because political parties know what people want. This is democracy, isn't it?

Also, calling Hakimullah a martyr is a manifestation of hate towards drones. People take it out of context to draw their own conclusions.

Drones, if they were productive, America and their Pakistani collaborators would have won the war by now. Terrorists are increasing, the hatred against Americans is on the rise & we dont see an end to this war on terror which is a tool to advance imperialist agenda and nothing else.

 

[Not Sure]

May be I know more than you about Pakistan so instead of commenting and making an effort as if you know more than us, it would be better to stick to what I stated.

May be, may be not. My post was very much relevant, helpful, and nice. So I have no idea where you are going with all that.

Crowds are coming out because political parties know what people want. This is democracy, isn't it?

Also, calling Hakimullah a martyr is a manifestation of hate towards drones. People take it out of context to draw their own conclusions.

Is not that exactly what I talked about? That the drones are unpopular among the commoners despite their utility and the political parties are making a good use of that attitude? I do not understand why would you need a reconfirmation on that.

Drones, if they were productive, America and their Pakistani collaborators would have won the war by now. Terrorists are increasing, the hatred against Americans is on the rise & we dont see an end to this war on terror which is a tool to advance imperialist agenda and nothing else.

This misconception among Pakistanis is so rife, that the US is losing this war on terror, that while earlier it was scary, now it has become amusing. The attacks in the mainland US and even in Europe by members of al Qaeda trained in those hilly areas has come down considerably. Apparently, for the US this WOT has paid in full, and then some more.

Hatred for the US amongst the Pakistani commoners is not a concern to the US policy makers. As long as the power holders in Pakistan support the Americans, they (US) get all they want.

Now coming to whether drones have resulted in a safer Pakistan - that we will know once the drone threat is taken away from the TTP and its likes. But then, it will be too late, and it seems the Pakistani Army is aware of that fact, thus the quiet nod and support for the much more intensified drone attacks in the recent years.

 

[Neptune]

Prime Minister Erdogan is going to Pakistan this month, no wonder that the NATO Supply Routes will be in his agenda

 

[airmarshal]

Prime Minister Erdogan is going to Pakistan this month, no wonder that the NATO Supply Routes will be in his agenda

NATO supplies should not go through Pakistan until we get assurance in writing from US regarding stopping drones.

If containers are marked 'Turkey' for Turkish troops, an exception should be made.